Sumlin killing it in recruiting

[Son of Wasatch]

Maybe your recruiting success is simply because you were able to offer immediate playing time at a number of key positions.

We don't have that luxury this year and we are still recruiting better right now than aggsy are. 17 recruits but only 6 are 4'star. versus 7 recruits with 4 being 4'star. We will take a much smaller class but it will have a much higher star rating.

your biggest issue last season was your defense. Im not sure how much better its going to be this year, its really going to depend on the development of your dline specifically your d tackles. Had you been able to stop anyone last year you may have won 6 or 7 games. You had a top 10 rushing offense yet could not control time of possession. That's an issue with your defense. I agree with your overall premise regarding a QB but that really wasn't the biggest issue last year. I like Buechelle, but I don't expect him to be significantly better as a freshman then what you ran out there last year.

Our defense had 9 true freshmen playing a big time part in that defense. This year you will see a huge difference in the level of play. I'm just guessing but if the offense has improved to say top 50 in the country Our defense will be top 25 maybe top 20.

From a Base 4-2-5 I expect to see

Starters 1 Senior, 3 Juniors, and 7 Sophmores
Backups - 4 Seniors - 4 Juniors 3 sophmores, and 6 true freshmen getting playing time.

T rushed for a ton of yards the last couple of games, but the rushing game wasn't consistent throughout the year, and the passing game was high school level. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who watched any game could figure out in less than a quarter that the single biggest issue was QB.

1970's high school passing offense is more exact.

I am not 100% sold that he is the best coach in the world. What I like about him is his toughness and how he is instilling it to the players.

I'm not. I want to be, but I'm not.

Charlie Strong is a witch of a recruiter, he runs a tight program, players love playing for him and will run through a brick wall for him.

However

His original coaching staff was crap especially his offensive staff.
His game time organization is lacking, and worse his game management is almost Keystone Cops level.

I love the guy and I want him to succeed, but he needs to win, I give him two years, if over the next 2 months we are still less than 10 wins, he needs to go.

 

[horn01]

The SEC may attract some players to A&M who would never have considered A&M if they were in the big 12, I'm perfectly willing to admit that. A&M has a lot of natural recruiting disadvantages compared to Texas, but relative conference affiliation is certainly a selling point for A&M. There are just as many (more actually) that would rather play at Texas than A&M, and don't care what conference either team is in. Texas is out recruiting A&M with back to back losing seasons. If Strong can put together a winning record, its all over but the crying, from a recruiting stand point.

For those who were paying attention toward the end of the last recruiting cycle, players were not buying Sumlin's "SEC" pitch, with several of them stating they wanted to hear what A&M had to offer, not why the SEC was better than the big 12, etc.

 

[cwillfromdatx]

I think there are a lot of questions about Sumlin and yes it is possible the job it too big for him. I think he was a solid coordinator for OU and the offenses were very prolific and produced multiple Heisman winners. Doesn't really matter. The bottom line is what he can do now and there are clearly still questions.

Strong is in year 3. If it makes you feel better that he won NC's as a coordinator or won at Louisville then great. I would be more concerned about what he's done in Austin. Everybody is getting excited that he had the #12 ranked class last year and #7 ranked class this year (with the benefit of the Baylor scandal refugees). Let's see if he can get it done on the field. Personally I think his HC success at Louisville was the product of having a solid NFL caliber QB in a mid major conference.

I've read everything you said and I can agree with the very bottom about him having a solid NFL QB. Just imagine if UT had someone of that nature on campus when he arrived. You and many others wouldn't even question his ability to coach or recruit. I still say if any coach came here the same time as Strong. We would be in the same situation. Now, I'm please to say we have a promising QB. Looking at the aggys coach, as one person stated, walked on other people coattails. Hasn't won anything. Did you guys see there schedule? It's horrible, PV and UTSA?

 

[Longyac]

Has there ever been a coach who took over a historically good program, had losing records his first 2 years, and went on to win anything significant? I cant think of any in the past 30 years. Strong path to this point is remarkably similar to Rich Rodriguez.

Meeting all your criteria is quite tough and maybe impossible. The flip side of that is how many traditional programs can you name that turned over as empty of a cupboard? Michigan is the only one I can think of.

Some coaches that had rough starts; Bobby Bowen at FSU, Jackie Sherrill at A&M, Chuck Fairbanks at Oklahoma, Vince Dooley at GA, and Mack Brown at NC.

DKR had two 6 win seasons in the fours years before his back to back NCs.

Gary Patterson's 2012 and 2013 seasons before his 2014 season.

Saban did lose to a Louisiana directional school in Tuscaloosa and to Alabama-Birmingham in Baton Rouge in his first year at those schools. We also now have 'the Saban rule' putting a cap at 25 in a calendar class due to how he went about turning around Bama.

 

[horn01]

I've read everything you said and I can agree with the very bottom about him having a solid NFL QB. Just imagine if UT had someone of that nature on campus when he arrived. You and many others wouldn't even question his ability to coach or recruit. I still say if any coach came here the same time as Strong. We would be in the same situation. Now, I'm please to say we have a promising QB. Looking at the aggys coach, as one person stated, walked on other people coattails. Hasn't won anything. Did you guys see there schedule? It's horrible, PV and UTSA?

I respectfully disagree. Maybe for the right reasons, but Strong completely dismantled his own defense as soon as he got here. More importantly though, he hired Watson. If you broke down Watson's schemes, they required NFL caliber talent all over the field. To move the ball at all, you needed to complete quick passes in tight windows, and the running scheme relied on the running backs beating unblocked defenders. It was a nightmare hire, and a terrible scheme for a team that clearly was not at a championship level. Having a reliable QB wouldn't have changed much.

 

[Longyac]

I've read everything you said and I can agree with the very bottom about him having a solid NFL QB. Just imagine if UT had someone of that nature on campus when he arrived. You and many others wouldn't even question his ability to coach or recruit. I still say if any coach came here the same time as Strong. We would be in the same situation. Now, I'm please to say we have a promising QB. Looking at the aggys coach, as one person stated, walked on other people coattails. Hasn't won anything. Did you guys see there schedule? It's horrible, PV and UTSA?

To this point here is what Shag poster caliHORNia wrote in September of '13, 3-4 months, before Mack was fired.

What A New Coach Will Find - He'll Wish It Were 1998
This morning I decided to go back to my days on the 40 Acres - the Mackovic years. My super Senior year was Mack's first, so I got to watch the transition up close and personal.

I began wondering what it might be like if we were to undergo a coaching change - what would they find in the cupboard. I'm not a football analyst by any stretch of the imagination, but when I compared the team Mack inherited from Mackovic to what someone might inherit today, an ugly picture begins to emerge.

In 1998 Mack had OL consisting of:

Russel Gaskamp
Ben Adams
Roger Roesler
Mike Garcia
Cory Quye
Octavious Bishop
Jay Humphrey
Leonard Davis

I don't think one of our OL would start on that team. Harrison might.

At RB obviously we had Ricky, but we also had Hodges Mitchell (our Daje back then?) and Ricky Brown. None of the 5* Backs we have today have proven that they would play on the 1997/98 team.

At TE I would take Mike Jones and Derek Lewis (sadly) over our current group, just based on plays they made and ability to block.

At WR I think we have some talent and the lineup would consist of a mix between the two groups with McGarity and Cavil holding up in comparison to the current group in terms of production.

At CB we had Quentin Jammer and Joe Walker (as well as Butcher, Brown, and Holmes). I think Jammer would be our S today - Davis, Diggs, and Thomas all have talent would play imo.

The 2014 group is probably better at DE with Cedric Reed and Shiro Davis than it was in 1998 with Aaron Humphrey and Cedric Woodard but might be a toss up.

At DT Malcolm Brown would be playing spot clean up in the 4th Q when Casey and Shaun sat down.

Linebacker is just a toss up. Why bother comparing Brandon Nava, Hicks, and Aaron Babino (no offense guys) to the current group who don't produce? Physically our 2014 crop is better, but not in production.

At K 1998 wins again with Kris Stockton and Ryan Long.

Would we take Major over Ash?

Outside of CB, LB, and WR which are all toss ups imo - the team Mackovic left was better than what we will currently be fielding next year. This is especially true along the Offensive and Defensive lines.

Yes - we are worse off than 1997, with better competition.

http://www.shaggytexas.com/board/sh...A-New-Coach-Will-Find-He-ll-Wish-It-Were-1998

 

[swVAHorn]

We don't have that luxury this year and we are still recruiting better right now than aggsy are. 17 recruits but only 6 are 4'star. versus 7 recruits with 4 being 4'star. We will take a much smaller class but it will have a much higher star rating.



Our defense had 9 true freshmen playing a big time part in that defense. This year you will see a huge difference in the level of play. I'm just guessing but if the offense has improved to say top 50 in the country Our defense will be top 25 maybe top 20.

From a Base 4-2-5 I expect to see

Starters 1 Senior, 3 Juniors, and 7 Sophmores
Backups - 4 Seniors - 4 Juniors 3 sophmores, and 6 true freshmen getting playing time.



1970's high school passing offense is more exact.



I'm not. I want to be, but I'm not.

Charlie Strong is a witch of a recruiter, he runs a tight program, players love playing for him and will run through a brick wall for him.

However

His original coaching staff was crap especially his offensive staff.
His game time organization is lacking, and worse his game management is almost Keystone Cops level.

I love the guy and I want him to succeed, but he needs to win, I give him two years, if over the next 2 months we are still less than 10 wins, he needs to go.

I agree 100%. Good post all around.

 

[swVAHorn]

Meeting all your criteria is quite tough and maybe impossible. The flip side of that is how many traditional programs can you name that turned over as empty of a cupboard? Michigan is the only one I can think of.

Some coaches that had rough starts; Bobby Bowen at FSU, Jackie Sherrill at A&M, Chuck Fairbanks at Oklahoma, Vince Dooley at GA, and Mack Brown at NC.

DKR had two 6 win seasons in the fours years before his back to back NCs.

Gary Patterson's 2012 and 2013 seasons before his 2014 season.

Saban did lose to a Louisiana directional school in Tuscaloosa and to Alabama-Birmingham in Baton Rouge in his first year at those schools. We also now have 'the Saban rule' putting a cap at 25 in a calendar class due to how he went about turning around Bama.

Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech. Good point longyac.

 

[TexExSpur]

For giggles and since fall camp is 25 days out>

Lets say this is the starting defense for Texas including their starts from 2015.

DE- N. Hughes, started every game (12) (junior) could get beat in fall camp
NT- P. Ford, started (5) games, played in (12) (junior)
DT- P. Boyette, started (6) games, played in (12) (senior)
DE- B. Cottrell, started the last (8) games, played in (12) (senior) could get beat in fall camp

OLB- M. Jefferson, started (9) games, played in (11) (true sophomore)
MLB- A. Wheeler, started (2) games, played in (12) (true sophomore)
CB- D. Davis, started last (5) games, played in (12) (true sophomore)
SS- D. Haines, started first (11) games, missed Baylor (senior walk-on) could get beat in fall camp
FS- DeShon Elliot, ZERO starts, played in (7) games, missed first 5 games. (true sophomore)
CB- Holton Hill, started last (8) games, played in (12) games (true sophomore)
NB-PJ. Locke, started the last game (1), played in (12) games (true sophomore)


Those irreplaceable players that pooch mentioned from 2015:

Davis '14, 13 games/4 starts, '13, 13 games/0starts, '12, 7 games/0 starts (8 starts in his career)
Jenkins '14, 13 games/2 starts, '13, 13 games/6 starts, '12, 13 games/3 starts (22 starts, 11 in 2015)
Jackson '14, 3 games/3 starts, '13, 13 games/2 starts, '12, 13 games/11 starts (21 starts in 5 years)
Ridgeway '14, 13 games/10 starts, '13, 12 games/0 starts (18 starts in 3 years, NFL pick)


The incoming freshmen I expect to have an immediate impact within this defensive unit: McCulloch LB, Fitzgerald DE, DCG DT, Jones S and Elliott DT...

 

[Longyac]

Spin, spin, spin. And mostly deflection.


I asked questions about Sumlin. And specifically his time at UH. You (erroneously) touched only on a bright spot of his time at OU. And then gave a paragraph about Charlie Strong. Good talk.



To be fair to you and respond to your Strong comments. I do feel better about a coach who has a proven winning record. Winning national titles as DC and building up the only other program he coached in a similar fashion to what he is doing now. (hell you talked about Sumlin having multiple heisman winner as OC at OU as if that made you feel better about him AND it wasn't even factual). White won a Heisman for OU in 03. Bradford in 08. Sumlin was CoOC/WR coach at OU in 06-07 and a ST/TE coach from 03-05.

 

[oldhorn2]

say maverick....I know I am an old guy and not very tech savy....but I would advise that if you want to make a comment while quoting a previous post.....please learn to do it correctly so it can be read. Otherwise folks might think you are dumb as an aggy......uh...well...uh....that didn't come out quite right.

perhaps you might try just not quoting a post.

 

[Maverick1971]

say maverick....I know I am an old guy and not very tech savy....but I would advise that if you want to make a comment while quoting a previous post.....please learn to do it correctly so it can be read. Otherwise folks might think you are dumb as an aggy......uh...well...uh....that didn't come out quite right.

perhaps you might try just not quoting a post.

gotcha

 

[Maverick1971]

Spin, spin, spin. And mostly deflection.


I asked questions about Sumlin. And specifically his time at UH. You (erroneously) touched only on a bright spot of his time at OU. And then gave a paragraph about Charlie Strong. Good talk.



To be fair to you and respond to your Strong comments. I do feel better about a coach who has a proven winning record. Winning national titles as DC and building up the only other program he coached in a similar fashion to what he is doing now. (hell you talked about Sumlin having multiple heisman winner as OC at OU as if that made you feel better about him AND it wasn't even factual). White won a Heisman for OU in 03. Bradford in 08. Sumlin was CoOC/WR coach at OU in 06-07 and a ST/TE coach from 03-05.

Sumlin won 10+ games 2x at Houston. He went 12-1 his last year, his best season which would refute the earlier remark that he gets worse as his tenure progresses. And the assertion that a coach is winning with the prior coach's players in year 4 is absurd. Yes, bag on him all you want for not winning a conference championship. For years you guys grew weary of hearing the same criticism of Mack Brown (who didn't win a CC until year 22 and only 2 in 30 years as a HC).

 

[Longyac]

Did he ever get better w/o a 6th year QB who learned under Briles? Don't think we didn't notice you omission of the 5-7 year when Keenum was out.

 

[Maverick1971]

Did he ever get better w/o a 6th year QB who learned under Briles? Don't think we didn't notice you omission of the 5-7 year when Keenum was out.

Yes, he went 5-7 without his QB. Congrats, you have beaten a confession out of me (its public record so didn't think you needed full disclosure). So there you have it, Strong and Sumlin both have 5-7 seasons on their coaching resume. I know, I know Strong's is so much more unfair since he was left with such a terribly bare cupboard (in year 2 lol).

 

[Maverick1971]

Did he ever get better w/o a 6th year QB who learned under Briles? Don't think we didn't notice you omission of the 5-7 year when Keenum was out.

For the record on Briles/Keenum. Keenum played under Briles for 1 year and had 14 td's and 10 picks. He was under Sumlin the next 4 years, capped off by 48 td's and 5 ints his last year. How much credit are you giving Briles? Yes, he recruited him but who developed him. Same for Manziel. He never played a down under Sherman.

 

[TexExSpur]

It's simple...
http://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-case-for-keenum/

....and Keenum was a Briles recruit just like Johnny boy was a Sherman recruit.

Not much to show for his own recruits at the position.

 

[Longyac]

Yes, he went 5-7 without his QB. Congrats, you have beaten a confession out of me (its public record so didn't think you needed full disclosure). So there you have it, Strong and Sumlin both have 5-7 seasons on their coaching resume. I know, I know Strong's is so much more unfair since he was left with such a terribly bare cupboard (in year 2 lol).

Strong's 5-7 team had no QB, OC, or any form of an offensive identity but you've already pronounced them dead.

 

[oldhorn2]

For the record on Briles/Keenum. Keenum played under Briles for 1 year and had 14 td's and 10 picks. He was under Sumlin the next 4 years, capped off by 48 td's and 5 ints his last year. How much credit are you giving Briles? Yes, he recruited him but who developed him. Same for Manziel. He never played a down under Sherman.

ok...so the first year he was a freshman. Then the next year he was a sophomore....How am I doing so far?....then the third year he was a junior.....ok, I am getting the hang of this.....the 4th year he was a senior.....then the 5th year he was a ....uh...he was a.....a little help here....after the first year he was under Bryles you said...then the next 4 under Sumlin where you said he had 48 td's.....in his last year....so what do you call that last year?

 

[q1w2e3]

your biggest issue last season was your defense. Im not sure how much better its going to be this year, its really going to depend on the development of your dline specifically your d tackles. Had you been able to stop anyone last year you may have won 6 or 7 games. You had a top 10 rushing offense yet could not control time of possession. That's an issue with your defense. I agree with your overall premise regarding a QB but that really wasn't the biggest issue last year. I like Buechelle, but I don't expect him to be significantly better as a freshman then what you ran out there last year.

This is just flat out wrong. The offense is by far the issue and it's not even close. Hence the offensive coordinator being demoted after the first game of the season and then basically the entire offensive staff let go after the season. The stats back it up clearly as well:

UT Big 12 conf. stats.- conference games only (non-con skews comparative stats)

Defense:

- 3rd in scoring defense
- 5th in total defense
- tied for 4th in yards per play
- 2nd in pass defense
- 1st in sacks
- finished 8th in rushing defense but had more rushing attempts against them than any other team. The yards per rush was actually 5th.

The offensive stats were horrendous:

- 9th in scoring offense (beat Kansas)
- dead last in pass offense (by 43 yards/game)
- 8th in total offense
- only one team had to punt more than UT...Kansas
- 7th in pass efficiency
- 9th in first downs (beat Kansas)
- 9th in third down conversions (beat Kansas)
- 9th in red zone TDs (beat Kansas)

It's actually halfway impressive the defense held up that well with the strain the offense consistently put on them. Considering the vast amount of true freshman contribution, and talent coming in, it's easy to be optimistic for the defense.

 

[BringBackRoyal]

This is just flat out wrong. The offense is by far the issue and it's not even close. Hence the offensive coordinator being demoted after the first game of the season and then basically the entire offensive staff let go after the season. The stats back it up clearly as well:

UT Big 12 conf. stats.- conference games only (non-con skews comparative stats)

Defense:

- 3rd in scoring defense
- 5th in total defense
- tied for 4th in yards per play
- 2nd in pass defense
- 1st in sacks
- finished 8th in rushing defense but had more rushing attempts against them than any other team. The yards per rush was actually 5th.

The offensive stats were horrendous:

- 9th in scoring offense (beat Kansas)
- dead last in pass offense (by 43 yards/game)
- 8th in total offense
- only one team had to punt more than UT...Kansas
- 7th in pass efficiency
- 9th in first downs (beat Kansas)
- 9th in third down conversions (beat Kansas)
- 9th in red zone TDs (beat Kansas)

It's actually halfway impressive the defense held up that well with the strain the offense consistently put on them. Considering the vast amount of true freshman contribution, and talent coming in, it's easy to be optimistic for the defense.

Nailed it. No competent observer could actually watch last year's games and come away thinking that the defense disadvantaged the offense to anywhere near the degree of the reverse.

 

[Mister Moses]

In other news I'm doing somethingThats constructive. I've been watching the first season of Bonanza on Amazon prime. It's great Ben was more ruthless early on in the 15 years. During the first six episodes he threatened to kill two men.
Back to the whatever this is. This will be decided by which coach gets fired first. That's a fact you guy are speculating. Herman waiting for the right call after that. We have a unique situation here. Who will be the real winner after that all plays out. Do something constructive watch rope opera's on me tv Saturday's and record them to watch over and over like LHN.

 

[Maverick1971]

ok...so the first year he was a freshman. Then the next year he was a sophomore....How am I doing so far?....then the third year he was a junior.....ok, I am getting the hang of this.....the 4th year he was a senior.....then the 5th year he was a ....uh...he was a.....a little help here....after the first year he was under Bryles you said...then the next 4 under Sumlin where you said he had 48 td's.....in his last year....so what do you call that last year?

OH,

Not sure I'm following you. He was granted an extra year of eligibility due to his injury. My point was that Briles recruited him and coached him for 1 year. Who is responsible for Keenum reaching his full potential? Is it Briles or Sumlin?

 

[Maverick1971]

It's simple...
http://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-case-for-keenum/

....and Keenum was a Briles recruit just like Johnny boy was a Sherman recruit.

Not much to show for his own recruits at the position.

So in your way of thinking I guess John Mackovick is completely responsible for the greatness of Major Applewhite? Got it.

 

[TexExSpur]

It's funny that folks are 100% sold on Herman, he has not done anything that Sumln or Strong have not already accomplished. His team plays in the American....

If Charlie gets run off, I'd rather see Texas make a run at Dabo!

 

[TexExSpur]

So in your way of thinking I guess John Mackovick is completely responsible for the greatness of Major Applewhite? Got it.

I love me some Major, but he fought his own battles. He red-shirted the '97 season and it's a damn good thing Mack had him. This is during my time at Texas... '95-'99

Here is what Mackovic left Mack Brown (you’ve heard of him, right?):

• The Heisman Trophy winner in Ricky Williams, another top five or ten Longhorn of all time, and one who got to run behind three first- or second-team All Big 12 linemen.
• A pair of NFL defensive tackles in Shaun Rogers and Casey Hampton, the latter a Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year, five-time Pro Bowler, and anchor to a Super Bowl-winning Pittsburgh Steeler defense. Hampton is in the debate as the greatest nose tackle in Longhorn history,
• Major Applewhite, an elite college QB, one trailing only Colt McCoy, Vince Young and Bobby Layne in Longhorn annals.
• Two future All Big 12 receivers in Kwame Cavil, the future all-time leading Longhorn single-season pass-catcher, and Wane McGarity, another record-setter.
• Mammoth Leonard Davis, a future first-round draft pick and All-American offensive tackle who played 12 seasons in the NFL, including three as a Pro Bowler.
• Quentin Jammer, a future first-round draft pick and All-American cornerback, and member of the San Diego Chargers All 50th Anniversary team.
• D.D. Lewis, a decent NFL linebacker and one of the best LBs Texas has had since the early 1980s. (To his credit, Brown moved him there from running back.)
• Hodges Mitchell, still one of UT’s top ten leading rushers.

 

[TexExSpur]

Things Mack got to enjoy that he did not leave behind for Charlie.

• A Heisman winner, and Outland winner, or contenders for the mythical all-time Texas team.
• A capable and/or experienced back-up to concussion-cursed quarterback David Ash, whose service Strong barely got to employ. (See Simms / Applewhite Controversy Aversion Plan alluded to above.)
• A team reasonably free of entitled head cases. Strong booted from the team nine of Mack’s guys who could not adhere to Strong’s fairly basic “core values.” Some fault Strong for that, but none of those detractors have been able to point out a single one of these players who is now excelling elsewhere. Today, all are either out of football or buried on depth charts, and it seems unlikely than any would have made a difference in helping Texas win more games, this year or last.
• Any semblance of a decent offensive line. Mackovic left a stable of college-level studs behind. Mack left almost nothing. After center Dom Espinosa went down for the season last year, and Strong purged a few other linemen, the Longhorns had precious little to work with. This year two true freshmen (Patrick Vahe and Connor Williams) were pressed into emergency service and by virtually all accounts were the squad’s best linemen. (Under Mack’s watch, no Longhorn offensive lineman has been drafted since George W. Bush was president, and that won’t change until Strong recruits Vahe and Williams go pro.)
• Talent in general. Mack’s last half-dozen or so recruiting classes have been disasters. For the first time since 1938, no Longhorn was selected in the 2014 NFL draft. Over the last four years, Texas has seen only 11 of its players selected, while Strong’s old Louisville team saw ten picked in 2015 alone. And after last year’s five Longhorn selections (all but Hicks and Brown middle-to-low range), the prospect ahead looks grim, at least until Strong’s recruits become eligible in a couple of years.

 

[Maverick1971]

What's interesting is the rankings of Mack's last 4 classes according to Rivals:
2010 #3
2011 #3
2012 #2
2013 #24

I don't doubt that Mack pretty much retired on active duty but those are some pretty good classes on paper. That's why I'm tapping the brakes on Strong since the only thing he's really accomplished in Austin is a #12 and #7 class. These rankings are a crapshoot until you see if they are developed.

 

[TexExSpur]

This was Mack Browns first class: 18 kids

Jermaine Anderson, DE Texas City
Beau Baker, OL Clear Lake
Ahmad Brooks, DB Abilene
Adam Dunn, QB New Caney
Montrell Flowers, WR Dallas Skyline
Ervis Hill, DB Texas City
Victor Ike, RB Austin Bowie
Lee Jackson, DB Longview
Tyrone Jones, LB Texas City
Jamal Joyner, DB Dallas Carter
Antwan Kirk-Hughes OT Waxahachie
Miguel McKay, LB Lufkin
Everick Rawls, LB Texas City
Chris Robertson, RB Denison
Beau Trahan, QB Bay City
Marcus Wilkins, LB Round Rock Westwood
Mike Williams, OT The Colony The only draft pick from the class
Jon Wyndham, DB Manor

It will be interesting to see how the Strong 2015 class stacks up in a couple years.

 

[TexExSpur]

What's interesting is the rankings of Mack's last 4 classes according to Rivals:
2010 #3
2011 #3
2012 #2
2013 #24

I don't doubt that Mack pretty much retired on active duty but those are some pretty good classes on paper. That's why I'm tapping the brakes on Strong since the only thing he's really accomplished in Austin is a #12 and #7 class. These rankings are a crapshoot until you see if they are developed.

If you paid attention to what some of us say around hear, it would make more sense to you. Mack struggled with player evaluation post Greg Davis departure, he whiffed on a ton of highly ranked prospects that didn't fit scheme, etc.. So, take these class rankings and check out the draft selections. That's why it's hilarious when folks get caught up in class rankings instead of looking at fit and overall player evaluation. The first two Strong classes are stacked!

This was written in in December of 2015 and he nailed it!

Here are the precious few assets Mack left behind:

• All-American defensive tackle Malcom Brown and injury-prone linebacker Jordan Hicks, the leaders of last year’s Longhorn defense and two guys who look like solid-to-great pros. Although both are very good players, neither was an all-time Texas great.
• Mykkele Thompson and Quandre Diggs, two defensive backs who look marginal-to-solid in the NFL.
• And, uh, Geoff Swaim, a tight end who caught one pass for 0 yards for the Cowboys.
• Defensive tackle Hassan Ridgeway, who will likely get drafted when he makes himself available this year or next.
• And that’s pretty much it, aside from a few guys who might get invited to try out for NFL teams, like Duke Thomas, Daje Johnson, and Peter Jinkens.

 

[LonghornMM]

In other news I'm doing somethingThats constructive. I've been watching the first season of Bonanza on Amazon prime. It's great Ben was more ruthless early on in the 15 years. During the first six episodes he threatened to kill two men.
Back to the whatever this is. This will be decided by which coach gets fired first. That's a fact you guy are speculating. Herman waiting for the right call after that. We have a unique situation here. Who will be the real winner after that all plays out. Do something constructive watch rope opera's on me tv Saturday's and record them to watch over and over like LHN.

Feel free to post less here.

 

[Maverick1971]

If you paid attention to what some of us say around hear, it would make more sense to you. Mack struggled with player evaluation post Greg Davis departure, he whiffed on a ton of highly ranked prospects that didn't fit scheme, etc.. So, take these class rankings and check out the draft selections. That's why it's hilarious when folks get caught up in class rankings instead of looking at fit and overall player evaluation. The first two Strong classes are stacked!

That is one hilarious statement. Texas fans on this board and everywhere were giddy about the classes from 2010-2012. Nobody was saying but wait wait these players don't fit our system! Don't get too excited! It's also funny that Greg Davis is now being mentioned in this light after he was almost unanimously run out of Austin. Fans are always going to get excited about highly ranked classes just like your fans are doing now. The classes Strong has put together the past 2 years look very solid. I think there is a good chance many of these will be very good college players and your team will improve. But until it is seen on the field, as well as the coaching ability of your new offensive staff, well nobody knows for sure.

 

[TexExSpur]

That is one hilarious statement. Texas fans on this board and everywhere were giddy about the classes from 2010-2012. Nobody was saying but wait wait these players don't fit our system! Don't get too excited! It's also funny that Greg Davis is now being mentioned in this light after he was almost unanimously run out of Austin. Fans are always going to get excited about highly ranked classes just like your fans are doing now. The classes Strong has put together the past 2 years look very solid. I think there is a good chance many of these will be very good college players and your team will improve. But until it is seen on the field, as well as the coaching ability of your new offensive staff, well nobody knows for sure.

Again, fan boys within the base are what folks love to use as their go to. You're not in a discussion with the masses so ease up with the broad brush. I've never been a star gazer and never will be! Mack's career fell apart when he fired his OC and yes there are a ton of fans that hate the bubble screen, guess what...it's still part of the game! Greg Davis was fired to take the heat off Mack' ass.


Some folks such as yourself need visual confirmation, it's understandable.

 

[Maverick1971]

Again, fan boys within the base are what folks love to use as their go to. You're not in a discussion with the masses so ease up with the broad brush. I've never been a star gazer and never will be! Mack's career fell apart when he fired his OC and yes there are a ton of fans that hate the bubble screen, guess what...it's still part of the game! Greg Davis was fired to take the heat off Mack' ass.


Some folks such as yourself need visual confirmation, it's understandable.

I certainly would not pretend to be on the inside of your program. But I sure don't remember any sort of groundswell of support for Greg Davis. Seems like most had been wanting him gone a lot earlier. The 2010 season was the perfect opportunity to make the move. Who would have ever thought that Harsin would not work out. And then Applewhite turned out to be a huge disappointment, seemingly incapable of rising above a position coach role. I always thought Davis was good at getting the offense to produce but his goodwill among fans was irreparably damaged by the team's offensive performance against OU from 2000-2004. He did a great job of adapting the offense to let Vince Young be himself. He also did a great job with McCoy.

 

[TexExSpur]

I certainly would not pretend to be on the inside of your program. But I sure don't remember any sort of groundswell of support for Greg Davis. Seems like most had been wanting him gone a lot earlier. The 2010 season was the perfect opportunity to make the move. Who would have ever thought that Harsin would not work out. And then Applewhite turned out to be a huge disappointment, seemingly incapable of rising above a position coach role. I always thought Davis was good at getting the offense to produce but his goodwill among fans was irreparably damaged by the team's offensive performance against OU from 2000-2004. He did a great job of adapting the offense to let Vince Young be himself. He also did a great job with McCoy.

....and he's doing it once again, elsewhere (Iowa) and they are starting to pull Texas prospects. The whinny fans are the worst and we have some whinny fans.