What actually is social justice?

[gravity26]

Besides the obvious problem of a small percentage of dumb ass cops shooting folks that don’t need shooting? I totally agree that there needs to be more prosecutions of these F’sticks!!

What are actually some of the most prevalent demands?

Please educate me?

I’m pretty sure you posted this question to throw shade on the BLM movement and but it’s actually a good question. I think you could have answered your own question if you took your thought process one step further. You stated that there is a small minority of cops that are really messing things up, those folks need to know they are not above the law and can be fired/prosecuted for their behavior. That would be the biggest accomplishment of the BLM protests.

 

[DancesWithWolves]

Thanks for the response gravity. I really wasn’t trying to throw shade. I am 100% in favor of better checks and balances with law enforcement. I am however curious about any other specific “change”?

I know plenty of people of different races that can’t seem to get ahead or catch a break. One common trait that they all share is poor choices. Perhaps if these folks “made changes with themselves” things would be better for them?
I’m truly interested to hear some specific and reasonable changes that the BLM movement are asking for.

 

[LonghornMM]

Thanks for the response gravity. I really wasn’t trying to throw shade. I am 100% in favor of better checks and balances with law enforcement. I am however curious about any other specific “change”?

I know plenty of people of different races that can’t seem to get ahead or catch a break. One common trait that they all share is poor choices. Perhaps if these folks “made changes with themselves” things would be better for them?
I’m truly interested to hear some specific and reasonable changes that the BLM movement are asking for.

Bingo! This is what needs to happen. So far, we've seen absolutely zero accountability from those who are backing the blacks that have been shot by law enforcement. There is a reason why they drew the attention of law enforcement in the first place and things went down hill. Now, has excessive force been used? In some cases, yes, but for anything to get better for people of color, they've got to admit that they can make better choices and change their behavior.

Also, obeying the commands of law enforcement officers when they are being dealt with would help. To make things out that it's all police officers fault and all police officers are racist and crooked is complete BS. There has got to be some common ground, give and take and accountability on each side to reach some kind of peaceful truce if that ever has a chance to happen.

 

[2300 Nueces]

We have a culture problem. Many black males identify with mumble wrap which is anti authority and pro anarchy. Until this is addressed, this gets uglier and more violent. Their demands are equivalent to taking spoils of war through a coup. They have a few problems:

1. Their demands break common laws.

2. Their organization is poor.

3. Funding?

4. Vastly outnumber by the most armed populace the world has ever seen.

That populace is in the early stages of organizing a response.

 

[gravity26]

Thanks for the response gravity. I really wasn’t trying to throw shade. I am 100% in favor of better checks and balances with law enforcement. I am however curious about any other specific “change”?

I know plenty of people of different races that can’t seem to get ahead or catch a break. One common trait that they all share is poor choices. Perhaps if these folks “made changes with themselves” things would be better for them?
I’m truly interested to hear some specific and reasonable changes that the BLM movement are asking for.

I see your point, it all comes down to personal responsibility. But shouldn’t that narrative apply to the people that are actually enforcing the law as well? When a mistake is made they should be quick to admit it and serve justice where justice is due. Change is slow and can take a long time for the entire population to accept. The people that supported and opposed civil rights in the sixties are still alive today, it’s going to take some time. To narrow down specific demands is going to be hard since it will have to vary from state to state. I don’t think anyone wants to get rid of the police but their overall goal is restructure police departments in a way that limits overall power that now gives them a protective barrier which all but absolves them of wrong doing, which everyone knows is not true. Everyone makes mistakes. You have to admit It’s pretty odd that you can beat someone or kill someone at work and not be prosecuted, or at a minimum be fired.

 

[lokibert69]

I’m pretty sure you posted this question to throw shade on the BLM movement and but it’s actually a good question. I think you could have answered your own question if you took your thought process one step further. You stated that there is a small minority of cops that are really messing things up, those folks need to know they are not above the law and can be fired/prosecuted for their behavior. That would be the biggest accomplishment of the BLM protests.

Totally agree. If you could just identify all of those future bad cops at this time that'd be very helpful.

You'll find close to zero bush-back on getting rid of bad actors, regardless where they reside. BLM and the players that protest demand change but offer no plan besides "get rid of bad cops". How about a plan?

 

[LonghornMM]

Totally agree. If you could just identify all of those future bad cops at this time that'd be very helpful.

You'll find close to zero bush-back on getting rid of bad actors, regardless where they reside. BLM and the players that protest demand change but offer no plan besides "get rid of bad cops". How about a plan?

This and taking a knee does absolutely nothing. If they want to make a difference and try to help to make changes, they should start a cause, donate their time, donate money, or hold mature, respectful dialog with law enforcement to enact change. Taking a knee and rioting in the street isn't going to result in any changes. If anything, it causes people to have no respect for their position. It's a turn off.

 

[gravity26]

Totally agree. If you could just identify all of those future bad cops at this time that'd be very helpful.

You'll find close to zero bush-back on getting rid of bad actors, regardless where they reside. BLM and the players that protest demand change but offer no plan besides "get rid of bad cops". How about a plan?

I think BLM is asking police to change by pointing out their issues. For instance, if an officer beats someone in the line a duty, why wouldn’t said officer be fired? Why is there no transparency on the decision to maintain employment of said officer? Everyone knows that there are a lot of great law enforcement guys out there, why aren’t they standing up for wrongful arrests or rooting out “Bad Apples”? This raises a bunch of questions that deserve at least an answer. Asking protesters to pen legislation doesn’t seem reasonable to me.

 

[JDCPAgolferHorn]

I think BLM is asking police to change by pointing out their issues. For instance, if an officer beats someone in the line a duty, why wouldn’t said officer be fired? Why is there no transparency on the decision to maintain employment of said officer? Everyone knows that there are a lot of great law enforcement guys out there, why aren’t they standing up for wrongful arrests or rooting out “Bad Apples”? This raises a bunch of questions that deserve at least an answer. Asking protesters to pen legislation doesn’t seem reasonable to me.

BLM is making the wrong demand. The appropriate demand should be to get rid of the police unions. It’s virtually impossible to fire a police officer with the incumbent unions. You’ll only be able to get rid of the “bad actors” if the police unions are abolished. But, wait, the Dems don’t want the unions abolished as BLM, Dems and the unions are financially intertwined. So, we’re left with the toothless optics of BLM demands that certain cops be fired.

 

[StrangerHorn]

I tell ya none of these people woulda lasted very long back in the 50's and 60's Cops and Sheriff Deputies, they was good at whipping ya ass for anything, but their was respect for them, if you started shit with them then ya got it back, they tell ya to go sit in the car backseat you did or they would whip ya ass all the way into the backseat..Never know how many UT guys got their ass whipped in the old county jail top of the court house for smarting off to the jailer, no body shot cops back then too much

 

[gravity26]

BLM is making the wrong demand. The appropriate demand should be to get rid of the police unions. It’s virtually impossible to fire a police officer with the incumbent unions. You’ll only be able to get rid of the “bad actors” if the police unions are abolished. But, wait, the Dems don’t want the unions abolished as BLM, Dems and the unions are financially intertwined. So, we’re left with the toothless optics of BLM demands that certain cops be fired.

I agree, unions have out lived their usefulness. They were needed at the time but now over step and some have become unreasonable. Detroit is a great example. And in today’s political climate I am considered a leftest. The police union makes almost no sense to me since police have never really been historically oppressed.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

I tell ya none of these people woulda lasted very long back in the 50's and 60's Cops and Sheriff Deputies, they was good at whipping ya ass for anything, but their was respect for them, if you started shit with them then ya got it back, they tell ya to go sit in the car backseat you did or they would whip ya ass all the way into the backseat..Never know how many UT guys got their ass whipped in the old county jail top of the court house for smarting off to the jailer, no body shot cops back then too much

Don't forget the cops who would not take you to jail but rather some abandoned building and whip your ass and leave you there. Those were the ones people were scared of. If you are sitting in a squad car and you hear a cop say, don't bother taking him in, it's too much paperwork, you know where to take him, you knew you were in for a major ass whipping.

 

[clob94]

I see your point, it all comes down to personal responsibility. But shouldn’t that narrative apply to the people that are actually enforcing the law as well? When a mistake is made they should be quick to admit it and serve justice where justice is due. Change is slow and can take a long time for the entire population to accept. The people that supported and opposed civil rights in the sixties are still alive today, it’s going to take some time. To narrow down specific demands is going to be hard since it will have to vary from state to state. I don’t think anyone wants to get rid of the police but their overall goal is restructure police departments in a way that limits overall power that now gives them a protective barrier which all but absolves them of wrong doing, which everyone knows is not true. Everyone makes mistakes. You have to admit It’s pretty odd that you can beat someone or kill someone at work and not be prosecuted, or at a minimum be fired.

Good God it's nice to finally have a premium member that rarely visits here, come in and speak with level headed rationale.

Yes, we do have some problems in law enforcement. But may I ask-- in what cities do these problems mostly exist? I get that there are outliers, there will always be outliers, but from a "media" reporting perspective, it appears that the majority of law enforcement problems come from large cities, that are mostly in the control of "blue" members on the political spectrum. A mayor is elected that then appoints a police chief, who is in charge of hiring, training and laying an agenda upon his or her officers.
So if there's a problem with police, doesn't it START with the person in the mayor's office, then trickle down to the chief, who was appointed by that mayor? The buck stops somewhere, and that somewhere sure as hell isn't the Oval office. The white house didn't elect the mayor. The white house didn't appoint the chief. The white house didn't hire the officers or train them. Is the white house expected to send federal law enforcement in to police the police of a duly elected mayor? That seems like strong arm tactics to me. Shouldn't the mayor be held responsible? The chief?

I get that people are angry. I get that minorities are scared. But by targeting the wrong entity, there's a divide being created.

A cop in Minneapolis "killed" a guy using a technique taught to him BY his police academy. Gloss over the fact that the guy was a criminal, he had drugs on his tongue at the time of arrest, complained he couldn't breathe long before he was ever put on the ground, and then focus on this one thing--- he was restrained in a way TAUGHT to him BY his police academy.
Who controls Minneapolis? Well that would be a mayor(s) of a certain political party--- and has been for quite some time.
Who controls the police in Minneapolis? Well that would be the chief appointed by these mayors of a certain political belief. And those police chiefs are responsible for the training these officers received.

In short-- if you're unhappy about the police in any city, it comes down to the mayor and their choices for police chief. And in most large cities, we all know what political stripes those mayors have worn in most cases.

So maybe, just maybe, this isn't a white house problem. Maybe this goes a little deeper than that.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

Good God it's nice to finally have a premium member that rarely visits here, come in and speak with level headed rationale.

Yes, we do have some problems in law enforcement. But may I ask-- in what cities do these problems mostly exist? I get that there are outliers, there will always be outliers, but from a "media" reporting perspective, it appears that the majority of law enforcement problems come from large cities, that are mostly in the control of "blue" members on the political spectrum. A mayor is elected that then appoints a police chief, who is in charge of hiring, training and laying an agenda upon his or her officers.
So if there's a problem with police, doesn't it START with the person in the mayor's office, then trickle down to the chief, who was appointed by that mayor? The buck stops somewhere, and that somewhere sure as hell isn't the Oval office. The white house didn't elect the mayor. The white house didn't appoint the chief. The white house didn't hire the officers or train them. Is the white house expected to send federal law enforcement in to police the police of a duly elected mayor? That seems like strong arm tactics to me. Shouldn't the mayor be held responsible? The chief?

I get that people are angry. I get that minorities are scared. But by targeting the wrong entity, there's a divide being created.

A cop in Minneapolis "killed" a guy using a technique taught to him BY his police academy. Gloss over the fact that the guy was a criminal, he had drugs on his tongue at the time of arrest, complained he couldn't breathe long before he was ever put on the ground, and then focus on this one thing--- he was restrained in a way TAUGHT to him BY his police academy.
Who controls Minneapolis? Well that would be a mayor(s) of a certain political party--- and has been for quite some time.
Who controls the police in Minneapolis? Well that would be the chief appointed by these mayors of a certain political belief. And those police chiefs are responsible for the training these officers received.

In short-- if you're unhappy about the police in any city, it comes down to the mayor and their choices for police chief. And in most large cities, we all know what political stripes those mayors have worn in most cases.

So maybe, just maybe, this isn't a white house problem. Maybe this goes a little deeper than that.

This is the kicker in all of this. The biggest problem happens to be in cities run by Democrats, at what point does it take before people put 2 and 2 together?

People blaming the President is like blaming God for your bad choices.

 

[StrangerHorn]

 

[Son of Wasatch]

The one difference is we got a hell of a lot of guns and people like Kyle Rittenhouse who aren't afraid to use them.

 

[westx]

Unfortunately, Stranger, these countries (including ours) think to themselves "that will never happen here or we will do it different". Then one day, it is too late. Getting back to our good, but imperfect system (which isn't so bad after all) will be quite a task. We will lose both wealth and freedoms we once took for granted.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

Unfortunately, Stranger, these countries (including ours) think to themselves "that will never happen here or we will do it different". Then one day, it is too late. Getting back to our good, but imperfect system (which isn't so bad after all) will be quite a task. We will lose both wealth and freedoms we once took for granted.

Democrats win because that is exactly what they want more rules we have to follow while they live above the law and less money in the hands of the middle class and more money in the hands of the rich and the poor.

 

[oldhorn2]

what was the old story?


"First they came for the communists, but I wasnt a comunist so I said nothing"

"Then they came for the Trade Unionists, but I wasnt a Trade Unionist so I said nothing"

"Then they came for the Jews, but I wasnt a Jew so I said nothing"

"Then they came for the "ethnicly impure" but I wasnt ethnicaly impure so I said nothing"

"when they came for me there was no one left to say anything to"

 

[TX1972]

what was the old story?


"First they came for the communists, but I wasnt a comunist so I said nothing"

"Then they came for the Trade Unionists, but I wasnt a Trade Unionist so I said nothing"

"Then they came for the Jews, but I wasnt a Jew so I said nothing"

"Then they came for the "ethnicly impure" but I wasnt ethnicaly impure so I said nothing"

"when they came for me there was no one left to say anything to"

Talk to the gun.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

When the wolves come for the sheep, it is the sheep dog that protects them. However when there are no more sheep dogs the only thing that protects the sheep from the wolves are their semi-automatic weapons

 

[TX1972]

What about my deer rifle? Which happens to be just like a M24.

 

[oldhorn2]

for crowd dispersal go with an 18" barrel shotgun with #9 shot

 

[HornsRuleU]

My initial, gut reaction to BLM was that All Lives Matter, but I get it now, I think. With so many cases of injustice against blacks--not just in the USA, either--the point needs to be stated more firmly. Black Lives Matter.

Want BLM to go away? Well, make sure your community, state and nation treat blacks at least at the level of Latinos, Asians and, yes, whites. We're nowhere near that now.

Whites hop into our cars, and get a different level of justice on the roads. If we cause an altercation with blacks, and they DARE to report it, many cops are likely to arrest them, not us. That should be offensive to us all. If you love justice, it is.

 

[Son of Wasatch]

for crowd dispersal go with an 18" barrel shotgun with #9 shot

This is my crowd dispersal tool.

Yes, it's as badass as it looks.
Citadel Boss 25 AR 12 gauge shotgun

 

[Son of Wasatch]

My initial, gut reaction to BLM was that All Lives Matter, but I get it now, I think. With so many cases of injustice against blacks--not just in the USA, either--the point needs to be stated more firmly. Black Lives Matter.

Want BLM to go away? Well, make sure your community, state and nation treat blacks at least at the level of Latinos, Asians and, yes, whites. We're nowhere near that now.

Whites hop into our cars, and get a different level of justice on the roads. If we cause an altercation with blacks, and they DARE to report it, many cops are likely to arrest them, not us. That should be offensive to us all. If you love justice, it is.

This country is falling over themselves to give blacks what ever they want, how about treating them like white people get treated.
No Affirmative action
Being called a racist because of their political views
Not getting a job even if you are more qualified because said company has to fill a color quota.
I could go on, but it is never enough, stop giving into this garbage.

There is no such thing as equality if anyone is getting special treatment.

 

[Belldozer1]

My initial, gut reaction to BLM was that All Lives Matter, but I get it now, I think. With so many cases of injustice against blacks--not just in the USA, either--the point needs to be stated more firmly. Black Lives Matter.

Want BLM to go away? Well, make sure your community, state and nation treat blacks at least at the level of Latinos, Asians and, yes, whites. We're nowhere near that now.

Whites hop into our cars, and get a different level of justice on the roads. If we cause an altercation with blacks, and they DARE to report it, many cops are likely to arrest them, not us. That should be offensive to us all. If you love justice, it is.

Welp, if they’re good honest folks with their pants pulled up and contributing to society they’ll be treated good by me. Unfortunately we’re nowhere near that. Want handouts instead of hard work.

 

[Belldozer1]

I’m watching the Kentucky Derby as I type and watching the hate group BLM protesting outside lol.

 

[hookem365]

My initial, gut reaction to BLM was that All Lives Matter, but I get it now, I think. With so many cases of injustice against blacks--not just in the USA, either--the point needs to be stated more firmly. Black Lives Matter.

Want BLM to go away? Well, make sure your community, state and nation treat blacks at least at the level of Latinos, Asians and, yes, whites. We're nowhere near that now.

Whites hop into our cars, and get a different level of justice on the roads. If we cause an altercation with blacks, and they DARE to report it, many cops are likely to arrest them, not us. That should be offensive to us all. If you love justice, it is.

I do not disagree with you.
But, the way these protests have gone and the superficial approach they have taken has not helped black lives at all. Ii seems to have helped Trump more than black lives.

 

[HornsRuleU]

I do not disagree with you.
But, the way these protests have gone and the superficial approach they have taken has not helped black lives at all. Ii seems to have helped Trump more than black lives.

I agree, I think.

But let's say everything were reversed. Let's say blacks were in control, and we were 1 ninth or whatever of the population, and black cops were kneeing one of us to death. They were going into our homes and shooting one of us down. We were frightened to call on their help. They were shooting us in the back, in front of our kids. And we made a fraction of what whites made, for doing the same job (when we could get it).

Would you be surprised if some whites tried to take it out on "the system"? They decided looting was the only way to get anything close to fairness?

Looting is wrong. Violence is NOT the way to protest or achieve racial justice. But would you be surprised if a few thought otherwise, and if peaceful groups were unable to control everyone? (And I'm not saying BLM is peaceful or not; I dunno. I just oppose racist whites or blacks jumping to conclusions.)

 

[HornsRuleU]

This country is falling over themselves to give blacks what ever they want, how about treating them like white people get treated.
No Affirmative action
Being called a racist because of their political views
Not getting a job even if you are more qualified because said company has to fill a color quota.
I could go on, but it is never enough, stop giving into this garbage.

There is no such thing as equality if anyone is getting special treatment.

I don't assume that you're racist because of your political views. But it doesn't help matters that you immediately laugh at what I say, and seem to assume that I don't agree with anything you've written.

Black-on-white racism does exist, and should stop, but whites aren't the ones (to my knowledge) being killed and maimed by blacks.

 

[Belldozer1]

I do not disagree with you.
But, the way these protests have gone and the superficial approach they have taken has not helped black lives at all. Ii seems to have helped Trump more than black lives.

You are correct and the left that are paying and organizing many of these BLM and Antifa protests have made a colossal misjudgment and imo have lost control of what they were promoting.

Trump didn’t need help against Biden but this whole protest thing has handed Trump his 2nd term on a silver platter.

 

[HornsRuleU]

As for violence at BLM protests, here's an interesting article that I just came across in my Google News feed (iow, didn't go looking for):

The Guardian: Nearly all Black Lives Matters Protests are Peaceful

I'd say 93% of protests being peaceful isn't enough, but it's not the picture you get from most news sources, including the more liberal ones, and certainly not the picture you get from OB.

 

[outhereincali]

As for violence at BLM protests, here's an interesting article that I just came across in my Google News feed (iow, didn't go looking for):

The Guardian: Nearly all Black Lives Matters Protests are Peaceful

I'd say 93% of protests being peaceful isn't enough, but it's not the picture you get from most news sources, including the more liberal ones, and certainly not the picture you get from OB.

Don't try to have a give and take discussion with this board because they respond with insults. But your posts on this thread are good. Go check out Mack Brown's twitter acct listen to what be says about BLM.

 

[Belldozer1]

Don't try to have a give and take discussion with this board because they respond with insults. But your posts on this thread are good. Go check out Mack Brown's twitter acct listen to what be says about BLM.

Does your wife know you’re posting? I would heed her advice, even she knew you were in over your head