Annual Offseason Thread of Firearms

[TX1972]

My opinion, using the .223 for deer is for experts. Like the 28 ga for doves. Yes, an expert may enjoy it. But there is little margin for error. I believe the .223 is likely to be too small for a clean kill for an 8 year old. .243 is widely available (unlike grendel and Wylde), low recoil, but offers wider margin of lethality.

 

[DHHorn]

My opinion, using the .223 for deer is for experts. Like the 28 ga for doves. Yes, an expert may enjoy it. But there is little margin for error. I believe the .223 is likely to be too small for a clean kill for an 8 year old. .243 is widely available (unlike grendel and Wylde), low recoil, but offers wider margin of lethality.

Yeah, I have a .243 but it's an adult size stock and not a youth model. I don't want to have to buy a youth model for him if I don't have to. That's why I was hoping to get the kid to shoot a .223 AR that has a collapsible stock. Maybe I'll just get him to practice with my .243 more, it's just a little long for him right now but he'll be in a blind with a rest anyway.

 

[oldhorn2]

I have a SAKO 243 that I hunted deer with for over 30 years. It is literally a "one hole" rifle. All you had to do was show that rifle a deer and it was meat on the table. The best shot I ever made with it was a coyote trotting at 357 paces free hand.

 

[clob94]

Thoughts on 6.5 grendel vs .223 Wylde for multi purpose gun. Deer hunting, hog hunting, predator hunting, recreational shooting, home defense etc.

I know the 6.5 has more power for hunting but I don't like the price per bullet if I want to go shoot a few mags at the range. Is the 223 enough for deer hunting? I have bigger deer rifles but I like the low recoil and collapsible stock for my 8 year old to shoot. He can't really shoulder an adult size rifle yet but once he gets bigger he'll use one of my deer rifles and I don't want to buy a youth model for one or two years.

Check it out....

The military is about to switch from the 5.56 to the 6.8 SPC. Now-- it's not a DONE deal yet, and there will be some pushback, but they want more knock down power in a small round, and the 5.56, as AWESOME as it's been, just doesn't have the KO power that the 6.8 SPC does. So, if you want to roll the dice on cheap ammo in the future, buy your kid an AR that shoots 6.8 SPC. Plenty of power to take down any hooved animal in North America.
If you want relatively inexpensive ammo now with more than enough knockdown power-- buy him a 6.5 Creedmor in an AR platform. Super hot round. Flat shooting. Plenty of ooomf.

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/modern-sporting-rifles/savage-arms-msr-15-recon-lrp-68mm-remington-spc-18in-matte-black-semi-automatic-modern-sporting-rifle-251-rounds/p/1507015

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ruger-sfar-6-5creedmoor-20-20rd-rifle-black-5612.html

 

[txleapd]

If a doomsday scenario were to unfold where everything collapsed back into pre-developed times, a scoped 22 would be the best imo. Accurate, cheap, considerably lower decibles even with no silencer, and you can easily carry 1000s of rds in a small backpack.

A simple .22 is a great choice for a survival scenario. Unfortunately, in a real world SHTF scenario, your biggest threat will be from other people, and a .22 alone just won’t cut it. This isn’t hyperbole either. A few years ago we had a run on gas on a random Wednesday (still don’t know what that was about). There were lines at gas stations and they were running out. We had stacked calls of fights breaking out and people pulling guns. It was nuts, and totally uncalled for… Now imagine that magnified by an actual breakdown of civilization and competition for resources. Even rational people will devolve when their survival is at stake.

 

[clob94]

A simple .22 is a great choice for a survival scenario. Unfortunately, in a real world SHTF scenario, your biggest threat will be from other people, and a .22 alone just won’t cut it. This isn’t hyperbole either. A few years ago we had a run on gas on a random Wednesday (still don’t know what that was about). There were lines at gas stations and they were running out. We had stacked calls of fights breaking out and people pulling guns. It was nuts, and totally uncalled for… Now imagine that magnified by an actual breakdown of civilization and competition for resources. Even rational people will devolve when their survival is at stake.

The first 96 hours would be the worst. Just go and look at any society that has been thwarted in the last 75 years. It's literally a carbon copy.
First, the power and comms are gone. There's confusion. The citizens in surrounding areas don't know what is happening. The shortwave radio becomes essential for news. Then word spreads. Then, panic sets in. Then the looting starts. Typically the looting starts slowly, targeting food and water and essentials. Then, ppl see the looting and realize THEY too must loot because they need supplies. Then the HUGE wave of looting starts and that's when things turn confrontational. Typically the worst looting is after the first 24 hours. Then it runs for the next 48 hours-- in horrible fashion. The last 24 hours are the buzzard ppl picking through what's left over, and picking off those that may have supplies but no way to defend themselves.
Then there's a lull. After the lull, supplies start running short again folks venture out to try and procure more, or raid the homes of those that they know have more supplies and probably aren't armed. This is when the bodies start stacking up for the 2nd time.
Then they start killing their pets and animals in the streets.
Cannibalism is the last resort and usually takes a couple of months before that kicks in.
I joke about having pecan trees, oak trees, orange and lemon trees, and crab apple trees at our place in the country-- but let me tell you-- that sh!t will keep a family alive for a looooong time. And those acorns can be brewed into acorn beer. Don't believe me? Its what saved the pilgrims that first harsh winter when they came to America.

 

[oldhorn2]

What you need is essentials....things like baling wire....birds nests...ball moss.. magnifying glass. A good ax, a great knife and a good net sack

 

[freeper]

And those acorns can be brewed into acorn beer. Don't believe me? Its what saved the pilgrims that first harsh winter when they came to America.

Those acorns can also be mashed after sufficient, (like two weeks) of soaking. Then they can be ground into a paste and made into cakes. Was a staple for Indians out west. The wife made them once, very labor intensive but its calories most don't know about.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

A simple .22 is a great choice for a survival scenario. Unfortunately, in a real world SHTF scenario, your biggest threat will be from other people, and a .22 alone just won’t cut it. This isn’t hyperbole either. A few years ago we had a run on gas on a random Wednesday (still don’t know what that was about). There were lines at gas stations and they were running out. We had stacked calls of fights breaking out and people pulling guns. It was nuts, and totally uncalled for… Now imagine that magnified by an actual breakdown of civilization and competition for resources. Even rational people will devolve when their survival is at stake.

First things first, if SHTF step 1 would be to immediately get the f*** out of any urban or densely populated areas. Doesn't matter what caliber you have when you're competing with hundreds of thousands for the same finite resources. It's bushcraft survival time, that's why I'd prefer a .22.

You can do what you need to do without drawing attention to your existence. Be a ghost.

.22, a good knife, couple life straws or purification tabs, & Bic lighters.....g2g

 

[2300 Nueces]

First things first, if SHTF step 1 would be to immediately get the f*** out of any urban or densely populated areas. Doesn't matter what caliber you have when you're competing with hundreds of thousands for the same finite resources. It's bushcraft survival time, that's why I'd prefer a .22.

You can do what you need to do without drawing attention to your existence. Be a ghost.

.22, a good knife, couple life straws or purification tabs, & Bic lighters.....g2g

Good info.. IMO, I don't think it gets this bad in most of the US. Are living conditions going to get bad, yes. The collapse will not be overnight, it will be a slow grind to the bottom. This will allow for adjustment by those outside the city. The inner cities are already 'food deserts'. By the time the collapse is in full swing, most of the retail will be out of the cities. The remaining retail will close quickly with little or nothing to be looted. The subs and the country areas will be fine. The people in places, like where I live, are already prepared for the most part. Any mischief will be met with death. The fear of being killed by roaming vigilantes will keep most places in order. Stores will still be filling the shelves where self-policing takes place. Any grifters from the city will be watched closely. Bad behavior will be met with a quick and possibly painful death.

Debt-Jubilee is coming and it will take a few if not more forms.

1. Outright debt forgiveness is the first. It won't be granted to you by the banksters but the penalty of defaulting on debt will be wiped out. The 'credit' - score (it's really a slave score) will be meaningless. So many will default that not defaulting will be more painful than defaulting.
2. Money printing. They will have to print a lot of money and buy worthless government debt to backstop their banks. This is already in progress and will continue for some time. Eventually, the amount of currency in circulation skyrockets, and wages will skyrocket.
3. An end to wage suppression. Wages will skyrocket due to money printing and a lack of quality labor. The demographics in this country are bad. There are not enough people to provide the goods and services that the retirees want. Wages in relation to prices are going UP UP UP. Be a worker.
4. Negative interest. The short term rates on the yield curve will be negative. Anyone saving in the form of digital currency will be a payor of the debt. Don't be a saver in the traditional form. Taxes will be sky high. Learn to game the system by knowing the taxable amount that one can earn and stay in a lower bracket. Channel all other efforts to earning outside the digital system, like growing food, producing a good or service that can be traded for an alt currency etc.....

Now you know why starting WW3 is so needed by the banking sect.. Don't participate.

 

[clob94]

First things first, if SHTF step 1 would be to immediately get the f*** out of any urban or densely populated areas. Doesn't matter what caliber you have when you're competing with hundreds of thousands for the same finite resources. It's bushcraft survival time, that's why I'd prefer a .22.

You can do what you need to do without drawing attention to your existence. Be a ghost.

.22, a good knife, couple life straws or purification tabs, & Bic lighters.....g2g

You still remember how to build a Dakota fire pit?

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

You still remember how to build a Dakota fire pit?

Doesn't work very well in the dry sugar sand where I'm at.

 

[clob94]

@clob94 nailed it. For $100-$200 you can buy a .30 upper (no registration required) and shoot .300 using the same mags as 5.56/223. Just be sure to plainly mark mags loaded with .300 so you dont accidently try to send one down the original pipe...it happens.
.300blk has very similar ballistics as 7.62x39. They are made up to 220 grain with has them around 1000fps at muzzle. Slap on a hush can and you're hearing your bolt carrier cycle.
The ammo is fairly pricey and you'll go through a box trying to sight it in. 220 grain drops 17.8" @ 100yds.

Found you a winner.

SDX:510 U.R.G. – Maxim Defense

maximdefense.com

 

[oldhorn2]

the reason the old old timers picked up and saved every bird nest they came across was it was the best kindling possible.

As an aside...On the plane back from Southampton I watched Hunger Games again. I swear Woody Harrleson was quoting Fresh when he was advising Catness how to survive the first few minutes. He said dont go for the weapons or food...run for the woods and survive.

 

[clob94]

the reason the old old timers picked up and saved every bird nest they came across was it was the best kindling possible.

As an aside...On the plane back from Southampton I watched Hunger Games again. I swear Woody Harrleson was quoting Fresh when he was advising Catness how to survive the first few minutes. He said dont go for the weapons or food...run for the woods and survive.

Fresh got to play by different rules than we would in a societal collapse. Those guys are handed a target, briefed on everything the humint and sigint guys have- they even know if their target has dogs and what breed they are. Then they get to sneak up at night and pop doors open and surprise the sh!t out of who ever is there- then rapidly exfil to a waiting ride that's taking them on to their next objective. All the while there's an eye in the sky making sure the natives aren't restless and packing enough fireworks to insure if the natives DO get restless, they'll simply die restless.

This would be an entirely different ballgame. Bunker in. Defense of a fixed position. It's the kind of sh!t Marines are REALLY good at.

 

[oldhorn2]

I hear you Clob, but I have to wonder how secure the bunker could ever be made. You can have it capeable of defending from a nuclear blast, but somewhere you have to have an air pipe and those can be found and screwed up. You might have access to unlimited good water but eventually your "out go" line will plug up with shit. Your power source might be found and cut off as well.

I used to think I was so old that I would be long dead before this came about, but at the quick pace it is all going to hell I now wonder if dying is a good strategy.....

 

[clob94]

I hear you Clob, but I have to wonder how secure the bunker could ever be made. You can have it capeable of defending from a nuclear blast, but somewhere you have to have an air pipe and those can be found and screwed up. You might have access to unlimited good water but eventually your "out go" line will plug up with shit. Your power source might be found and cut off as well.

I used to think I was so old that I would be long dead before this came about, but at the quick pace it is all going to hell I now wonder if dying is a good strategy.....

Look- I've been in the meetings where IMF bankers walk in and the Minister of Petroleum gets up and leaves the room to go chin wag with the global bankers. There's money in globalism, and there's people out there that want this global economy where a Coke costs the same in Barcelona as it does in Baghdad- $12.
And they want you to use the same currency in Cleveland that you'd use in Calcutta. Why?
Control. They can control monetary flow, thus controlling the flow of goods. You can't control where oil is found (which fvcks up their little scheme) but you CAN control where solar panels and wind farms are placed.

On the OTHER side of that coin are the people that make money off of chaos. Nation builders. US, China, France- all make BIG money rebuilding fvcked up places. There's powerful ppl inside of those governments that only want a "certain" amount of globalism.
Why?
Because if steel costs the same everywhere, then how are they going to rebuild war torn countries using cheap steel but charging premium prices?
The bankers want us all to get along- which gives them control. The chaos ppl want us all to destroy each other which gives them the ability to rebuild all the destroyed infrastructure.
Our country is divided not by political ideology- but by economic ideology disguised as political ideology. And the smaller, weaker countries that have collapsed in the last 50 years- have made many a rebuilder, very wealthy.
Look at Sudan- April 2012. They'd already negotiated a peaceful separation between north and south- but peace doesn't make anybody money except the bankers. So what happened?
Tanks start rolling up the fvcking street, blasting at a couple of buildings that were supposed to have leadership in them, doing meetings. Good times! Where'd the armor come from? One minute there's peace and no tanks, the next minute there's T-55s popping off rounds.
Look at the Congo. You think it's bad now? Wait until the rest of those Cobalt and Lithium mines start producing. There aren't enough private contractors OR green berets to stop what's coming. I don't know if @GuaranteedFresh! Ever was assigned to Africom or not- but he might know dudes that were. It's going to be a fvcking shit show over there, REAL SOON.
WHY?

Because the globalist bankers want their lithium and cobalt for their solar panels and windmills that they can control, and the chaos guys want oil and natural gas and war and rebuilding.

These diametrically opposed groups have already set their sites on the USA. It's coming. The question is- when?

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

Found you a winner.

SDX:510 U.R.G. – Maxim Defense

maximdefense.com

I definitely wouldn't be upset if Santa slipped one under the tree this year.

On a related subject, is the new manufactured & sold in Texas suppresser law something that gunsmith are messing with? It sure seems like locally you're legal but subject to an atf raid at any moment.

Sure would be nice to legally buy a new can AND not have to wait 6 months for a play date.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

Look- I've been in the meetings where IMF bankers walk in and the Minister of Petroleum gets up and leaves the room to go chin wag with the global bankers. There's money in globalism, and there's people out there that want this global economy where a Coke costs the same in Barcelona as it does in Baghdad- $12.
And they want you to use the same currency in Cleveland that you'd use in Calcutta. Why?
Control. They can control monetary flow, thus controlling the flow of goods. You can't control where oil is found (which fvcks up their little scheme) but you CAN control where solar panels and wind farms are placed.

On the OTHER side of that coin are the people that make money off of chaos. Nation builders. US, China, France- all make BIG money rebuilding fvcked up places. There's powerful ppl inside of those governments that only want a "certain" amount of globalism.
Why?
Because if steel costs the same everywhere, then how are they going to rebuild war torn countries using cheap steel but charging premium prices?
The bankers want us all to get along- which gives them control. The chaos ppl want us all to destroy each other which gives them the ability to rebuild all the destroyed infrastructure.
Our country is divided not by political ideology- but by economic ideology disguised as political ideology. And the smaller, weaker countries that have collapsed in the last 50 years- have made many a rebuilder, very wealthy.
Look at Sudan- April 2012. They'd already negotiated a peaceful separation between north and south- but peace doesn't make anybody money except the bankers. So what happened?
Tanks start rolling up the fvcking street, blasting at a couple of buildings that were supposed to have leadership in them, doing meetings. Good times! Where'd the armor come from? One minute there's peace and no tanks, the next minute there's T-55s popping off rounds.
Look at the Congo. You think it's bad now? Wait until the rest of those Cobalt and Lithium mines start producing. There aren't enough private contractors OR green berets to stop what's coming. I don't know if @GuaranteedFresh! Ever was assigned to Africom or not- but he might know dudes that were. It's going to be a fvcking shit show over there, REAL SOON.
WHY?

Because the globalist bankers want their lithium and cobalt for their solar panels and windmills that they can control, and the chaos guys want oil and natural gas and war and rebuilding.

These diametrically opposed groups have already set their sites on the USA. It's coming. The question is- when?

Only history books know exact events that set wheels in motion towards major conflict. I feel we've taken the on-ramp to havoc highway and looking to merge.


Hide yo kids, hide your wife

 

[clob94]

Well sh!t----

Now I'm going to have to find one--

 

[Lampasas]

Picked up an 80 year old M1 Carbine recently. It's a really fun shooter. Don't think I would use it for shooting a whitetail at 150 yds because of shot placement concerns with the peep sight, but I would definitely have no issues picking off pigs or coyotes at that range.

 

[oldhorn2]

Tech outage world wide..
..att outage before that...Verizon...same

..spectrum...same

.

I do believe whatever prep you have in mind, you have very little time to get it done......good luck!

 

[Lampasas]

Anyone starting now might have missed the boat...

 

[clob94]

Picked up an 80 year old M1 Carbine recently. It's a really fun shooter. Don't think I would use it for shooting a whitetail at 150 yds because of shot placement concerns with the peep sight, but I would definitely have no issues picking off pigs or coyotes at that range.

My grandfather told me that the only reason you shoot Nazis with the M1 carbine is if "you REALLY wanted to piss them off".

Of course as I got older, I realized he was a navigator- bombardier on a B17. WTF did he know about shooting Nazis?

 

[Lampasas]

Yeah. Interesting that the M1 rifle (30.06) and M1 Carbine (30 carbine) had different cartridges with vastly different ballistics. But even if one during ww2 was an engineer, medic, officer or REMF, the M1 Carbine would likely have been preferred over a sidearm.