Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (Boy, that escalated quickly...)

[Ketchum]

Are you kidding me? You lambaste poster after poster for not providing stastical evidence that Buechele did not suck last year, and you drop this? What a joke.

a. I lambaste posters after poster for not having a true grasp of Buechele's freshman season.
b. I didn't drop anything. I'm quite open that Zaire is unproven and that my thoughts on him are largely based on where I thought he was headed as a player in 2015.

This is what honesty looks like. There's no hidden ball trick.

Frankly, the two things have nothing do with each other directly.

 

[LARKIN1]

I said this: "|I believe he can get there. Hell, everyone believed Colt would take off in 2007 after his 2006 year and he proved that he still needed another year, which means that he didn't really hit his high as a player until his fourth season as a quarterback in Austin."

You then said, "Colt had one hell of a lot better surrounding cast and coaching than Buechelle."

That's what started the conversation. I was speaking of Colt's sophomore season being proof that positive jumps from freshman season to sophomore season don't happen just because.

Ahhh, OK ,I misunderstood your take. SB looked so much more confident in the Spring game I'll think he'll progress
and avoid the sophmore slump. He had a little swagger to him, kinda like Colt.
I know Tom hasn't been heaping the praise on him, but he's very coy. You don't really know if his apparent unhappiness
with the QB situation is real or if he's using motivation techniques. Anyway , hopefully we're comparing SB favorably to Colt before long.

 

[Hornius Emeritus]

He can still become Colt (whose career numbers are somewhat overrated).

Your comment is nonsensical. Out of the thousands of players who have played Div 1 QB. he's 12th in passing yards, 12th in TDs, 2nd in completion percentage etc...

How is it possible to "overrate" these numbers? Who overrates them?

 

[jessed50]

a. I lambaste posters after poster for not having a true grasp of Buechele's freshman season.
b. I didn't drop anything. I'm quite open that Zaire is unproven and that my thoughts on him are largely based on where I thought he was headed as a player in 2015.

This is what honesty looks like. There's no hidden ball trick.

Frankly, the two things have nothing do with each other directly.

They are related when you pull the "show me the evidence" card on one QB, but turn around and use the eyeball test for the other. Just admit you took the easy way out because you have no valid argument for your statement that Zaire would be a better option this year at QB.

Lets recap this magical 2015 year you speak off. He lit up the worst d in the nation to start off the season. He than proceeded to lay a huge egg against a horrible Virginia team before he got hurt. Its probably a good thing he got hurt in that game, so the better QB could come in and actually lead them to victory. He was 7/18 for 115 yds in that game. This is what leads you to believe he was on his way to a breakout year? Those 7 quarters? Like I said, what a joke.

 

[Ketchum]

Your comment is nonsensical. Out of the thousands of players who have played Div 1 QB. he's 12th in passing yards, 12th in TDs, 2nd in completion percentage etc...

How is it possible to "overrate" these numbers? Who overrates them?

Do you disagree that he had one special season, one very good season and two uneven seasons?

 

[Ketchum]

They are related when you pull the "show me the evidence" card on one QB, but turn around and use the eyeball test for the other. Just admit you took the easy way out because you have no valid argument for your statement that Zaire would be a better option this year at QB.

Lets recap this magical 2015 year you speak off. He lit up the worst d in the nation to start off the season. He than proceeded to lay a huge egg against a horrible Virginia team before he got hurt. Its probably a good thing he got hurt in that game, so the better QB could come in and actually lead them to victory. He was 7/18 for 115 yds in that game. This is what leads you to believe he was on his way to a breakout year? Those 7 quarters? Like I said, what a joke.

There are multiple conversations taking place.

It's kind of a joke that you're touching the corners of the context in play, while kind of misrepresenting my comments in the process.

You calling his 2015 season magical is your wording not mine. I simply stated I thought he was headed towards a big year and was on his way to becoming a star for the Irish before becoming injured that season.

 

[jessed50]

There are multiple conversations taking place.

It's kind of a joke that you're touching the corners of the context in play, while kind of misrepresenting my comments in the process.

You calling his 2015 season magical is your wording not mine. I simply stated I thought he was headed towards a big year and was on his way to becoming a star for the Irish before becoming injured that season.

What I read 9 pages for, and probably why I am being onery, is the why. You have gone to great lengths to tell us why we should pump the brakes on Buechele, but not what gets you all warm and fuzzy about Zaire. I agree with everything you have said so far about Shane, what I don't agree with is your thoughts on Zaire. Mainly because you are not giving your thoughts. Just reasons why you are not buying Buechele. TBH after watching the Virginia game two years ago, and his abysmal performance against Texas, I just don't see it. I see a situation where a talented player has little to no game film to show all of his warts. Its like passing judgement on Shane after only watching the ND and Cal games.

Can you please elaborate on one question. What are you seeing that leads you to believe he is a better option? Please don't tell me your gut.

 

[Hornius Emeritus]

Do you disagree that he had one special season, one very good season and two uneven seasons?

No.

 

[Ketchum]

What I read 9 pages for, and probably why I am being onery, is the why. You have gone to great lengths to tell us why we should pump the brakes on Buechele, but not what gets you all warm and fuzzy about Zaire. I agree with everything you have said so far about Shane, what I don't agree with is your thoughts on Zaire. Mainly because you are not giving your thoughts. Just reasons why you are not buying Buechele. TBH after watching the Virginia game two years ago, and his abysmal performance against Texas, I just don't see it. I see a situation where a talented player has little to no game film to show all of his warts. Its like passing judgement on Shane after only watching the ND and Cal games.

Can you please elaborate on one question. What are you seeing that leads you to believe he is a better option? Please don't tell me your gut.

It probably has more to do with where I think Shane is right now. I'm not convinced that he's ready for what is going to be expected of him. The fact that Zaire is in his fifth year gives me reason, although not supported by real supporting data, that he is more prepared for this season.

I don't know how much certainty there is behind that thought, as I'm sure Herman likely is having the same conversation with himself and his staff.

 

[Ketchum]

No.

so, we're on the same page.

In general, Colt is regarded as one of the all-time greats at the position, but his performances by season don't really support... not completely anyways.

That's all I'm saying that his raw numbers probably present an incomplete picture.

 

[jessed50]

It probably has more to do with where I think Shane is right now. I'm not convinced that he's ready for what is going to be expected of him. The fact that Zaire is in his fifth year gives me reason, although not supported by real supporting data, that he is more prepared for this season.

I don't know how much certainty there is behind that thought, as I'm sure Herman likely is having the same conversation with himself and his staff.

Technically Shane is the more experienced real game QB, so what attributes/experience do you think Zaire may bring that give him the edge? Is it the body build of an older guy like Zaire? Are there any similarities in the offenses Kelly was running and what Herman would like to run? If I remember correctly ND was a downhill running/spread offense. Just don't remember if it is closer to Briles or Urban.Last, how much is put on the QB for calling/changing plays at the line, or is this done from the sidelines? The reason I ask that is because I think this is where an older player could really hold an edge. Don't remember much looking to the sideline in the spring game.


You don't have to answer these questions now, but I would love to hear thoughts on some of these in the future.

 

[Ketchum]

Technically Shane is the more experienced real game QB, so what attributes/experience do you think Zaire may bring that give him the edge?

Five years of preparation for the moment. He's 22. Shane played last season when he should have redshirted and I think Zaire being in college 3-4 more years might make him more ready.

Is it the body build of an older guy like Zaire?

I think physical preparation is part of it. He's definitely more ready to handle the rigors of what Herman is about to ask his starting quarterback to pull off. Of course, Zaire hasn't proven he can be a 12-game starter, either, so that's an argument that we could spend round and round on.

Are there any similarities in the offenses Kelly was running and what Herman would like to run? If I remember correctly ND was a downhill running/spread offense.

There are certainly some concepts that both offenses shared, which is one of the reasons why I'm sure that Herman has an interest. The fact that Zaire is better suited to give Texas more of a run option from the quarterback position is a factor.

Last, how much is put on the QB for calling/changing plays at the line, or is this done from the sidelines? The reason I ask that is because I think this is where an older player could really hold an edge. Don't remember much looking to the sideline in the spring game.

An experienced quarterback would carry more of those responsibilities. At this point, they are walking with Shane and not running with him. I think both players would have to prove they could handle that. Not sure I give Zaire the free advantage there.

 

[RLong68]

Your comment is nonsensical. Out of the thousands of players who have played Div 1 QB. he's 12th in passing yards, 12th in TDs, 2nd in completion percentage etc...

How is it possible to "overrate" these numbers? Who overrates them?

If you really want a good laugh, compare Colt's numbers to Peyton Manning.

 

[Ketchum]

If you really want a good laugh, compare Colt's numbers to Peyton Manning.

Manning's career at Tennessee is so weird. From a rating standpoint, the numbers were almost the same each year. The fact that he didn't play in the offenses that arrived in the next decade didn't help. Like Colt, he had one year that was out of this world (even if the overall rating doesn't hold up in 2017), one very good year and two that were non-memorable.

 

[whiterockhorn2]

i haven't read all the replies but two things come to mind :

1. How do you mention Seminole and not bring up the great Chris Ogden ?

2. I think bobby bowdens run at fla st would compare favorably to Mack's run of bringing in talent. Mack followed Bobbys blueprint to a T with the exception of getting that 2nd natty that Bowden got with Peter Warwick and co. in '99

 

[Ketchum]

i haven't read all the replies but two things come to mind :

1. How do you mention Seminole and not bring up the great Chris Ogden ?

2. I think bobby bowdens run at fla st would compare favorably to Mack's run of bringing in talent. Mack followed Bobbys blueprint to a T with the exception of getting that 2nd natty that Bowden got with Peter Warwick and co. in '99

1. I remember seeing Chris Ogden in the state tournament his senior year. Man, that had to have been a long bus ride.

2. Bobby's was different. Mack's accomplishments are centered around what he did in the state of Texas and how he was able to change the way an entire state handled the recruiting process.

 

[allworldhorn]

I'm glad you said this. There are a lot of folks on this site with plenty of perspective on UT recruiting, but it feels like the people covering recruiting on various Texas based premium sites lack it to some extent. They don't remember what it was like from 1984-1997, and how Mack Brown changed the paradigm. That's not to take anything away from what Herman can do. In fact, one of the things Mack Brown never did was take advantage of Texas having a nationally recognized brand. It's obvious that's the direction Herman wants to go.

But Brown came into the region recruiting with such a shock and awe campaign. He completely wiped away any stigma surrounding the program for inner city kids who associated Texas with the legacy of the 60s to some degree. He galvanized the university into seeing what a successful football program could do for the school in a way that opened eyes that needed to be opened. He made Texas the cool school in such a dominating fashion that left RC Slocum and A&M recruiting coordinator Tim Cassidy starving for oxygen.

Charlie Strong benefitted from that legacy, and now Tom Herman is to. Which is not to take away with what is going on in the program right now. Tom Herman is challenging everyone to keep up with his vision, whereas Mack Brown was more of a schmoozer. I relate to Tom Herman's approach a lot more, and feel confident it's going to bring about an unprecedented level of success.

But I like you giving credit to Mack Brown for both the challenges he faced as well as his astounding ability to eclipse them.

No doubt true.
But we need to win conference championships. I think we will under Herman.

 

[allworldhorn]

I'm glad you said this. There are a lot of folks on this site with plenty of perspective on UT recruiting, but it feels like the people covering recruiting on various Texas based premium sites lack it to some extent. They don't remember what it was like from 1984-1997, and how Mack Brown changed the paradigm. That's not to take anything away from what Herman can do. In fact, one of the things Mack Brown never did was take advantage of Texas having a nationally recognized brand. It's obvious that's the direction Herman wants to go.

But Brown came into the region recruiting with such a shock and awe campaign. He completely wiped away any stigma surrounding the program for inner city kids who associated Texas with the legacy of the 60s to some degree. He galvanized the university into seeing what a successful football program could do for the school in a way that opened eyes that needed to be opened. He made Texas the cool school in such a dominating fashion that left RC Slocum and A&M recruiting coordinator Tim Cassidy starving for oxygen.

Charlie Strong benefitted from that legacy, and now Tom Herman is to. Which is not to take away with what is going on in the program right now. Tom Herman is challenging everyone to keep up with his vision, whereas Mack Brown was more of a schmoozer. I relate to Tom Herman's approach a lot more, and feel confident it's going to bring about an unprecedented level of success.

But I like you giving credit to Mack Brown for both the challenges he faced as well as his astounding ability to eclipse them.

No doubt true.
But we need to win conference championships. I think we will under Herman.

Hey Shaka, take note:
There's a kid here playing up on under 17's as a sophomore , close to UT named
Charles Bassey all th coaches r watching he is 6'11" from San Antonio n what potential he offers! Go get'em!

 

[Ketchum]

Hey Shaka, take note:
There's a kid here playing up on under 17's as a sophomore , close to UT named
Charles Bassey all th coaches r watching he is 6'11" from San Antonio n what potential he offers! Go get'em!

 

[DKR-3rings]

I'm sorry I just read all this Ketchum bs argument. I'm really hoping someone stole Ketchs login and that's where this came from? Because this Ketch couldn't be anymore clueless on this subject.