Man, those three sentences just ruined everything for you, right?
The boxing, MMA and NBA weren't issues.
Haha Nah I'm just trolling...do your thing Ketch
Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (Buechele has the higher ground)
- Thread starter Ketchum
- Start date
Haha Nah I'm just trolling...do your thing Ketch
All this talk about the ypc is besides the point. I agree it's hardly a large sample. But Ketch made a better point with Brown ending up on the 53 rostet. He made the squad and has been productive in a limited role. So, no bust label, and perhaps was over looked as well.
If memory serves, Redding was a DE for that line, and at one point all three Rogers, Hampton and Redding became the league's highest paid DTs. Funny to remember that Redding was a LB coming out of HS. He ate his way to a pretty big payday.
I wouldn't say that. Thornton arrived a year after Redding. Redding was a backup DE in '99 (Woodard and Hump were the starters) then slid into starting role in '00 alongside Hamp and Shaun who were gone after that season. But Thornton did play a lot alongside them in his one year with them.
Not sure when we'll see another Jamaal. However, "third year" or not, the truth is that Shipley hadn't even stepped on the field in either year d/t injuries. He was very much Bigfoot heading into the '06 season.
Thornton started every game in 2000, I believe, or almost every game. Basically, they played the same amount.
Shipley was the best wide receiver on campus from 2004 on, his injury status didn't change that.
Ok, let's not rewrite history. We're talking a guy who had a major knee injury his first year. Then torn a hamstring or whatever his second season. Then after 2 years of finally being healthy his combined numbers were 43 catches for 600+ yards. IMO you are being a little intellectually dishonest at this point. Nobody was projecting Shipley in '06 to put up numbers like he did in '08 and '09.
I'm not rewriting anything. Shipley would have been a true freshman starter in 2004 had he been healthy. He would have started on the 2005 team.
Considering I covered every single off-season work out and practice back then because it was allowed, I know what I'm talking about.
And yet he didn't start a single game in '06 and he didn't start until 2nd half of '07 season after Limas went down. Meanwhile we had illustrious guys such as Billy Pittman and Nate Jones starting. No need to big-time anybody. History doesn't really back you up.
A lot of that had to do with his body recovering from those serious injuries.
Ask Vince Young is Shipley starts on those 2004 and 2005. I've had the conversation with him. I'll wait for you to get back with me...
Thanks for making my point. In '06, we didn't know what we were getting with Ship. He was to that point, damaged goods and along the mythical lines of Bigfoot. And even after TWO full healthy seasons, nobody was really thinking the amazing production from him in '08 and '09. You just admitted that. Again, your initial point about "Shipley going into his 3rd year" in '06 really isn't intellectually honest. It's a rather easy argument one can make that Burt going into '16 is a more known commodity and certainly more proven commodity than Shipley was in '06. And if we're talking projections (since that all Shipley was going into '06) it's probably not a stretch to say that Johnson projects to be more effective his first full year of playing than Shipley was. FWIW, you also just spoke out both sides of your keyboard. You initially say that "injuries didn't change" Shipley's status as the best WR on the team then you offer up a rationale for him not starting for all of '06 and most of '07 as "his body recovering from serious injuries." So which is it? Look, I'm not arguing the massive advantage in OL that McCoy had in '06 versus what we project for '16 (even with expected upgrade from '15). Obviously I sure as hell acknowledged we don't have a Jamaal Charles on the roster.
We're just going to have to disagree.
Assuming he was healthy, people that know what's going on, knew the Longhorns had an immediate impact player. They KNEW. It was only a matter of staying on the field.
I get he was a pup. More commenting on the fact that Texas developed the three of them all held the crown of highest paid DTs. Just a run of tremendous D line talent.
We had Thorton as an intern. Good man, sharp guy and a bright future. Undersized for the pros. But great motor. I'm sure his mind has carried him as far as football could have.
I'm not sure were disagreeing outside of you not wanting to admit it. IF, Shipley HAD played in '04 and '05 then this would in all LIKELIHOOD be a moot point. But the not so problem is that he DIDN'T play in '04 and '05. Hell man, we can assume all we want about what we knew or didn't know. But the reality for Shipley is what I stated. And history showed that he wasn't quite back in THOSE seasons. So for purposes of THIS discussion, that's all that really matters. My guess is that the coaches in the building feel no less excited about Collin Johnson this season than the previous staff did for Shipley in '04. Or even perhaps '06 although my guess is they knew it would take some more time. Keep in mind, that closed practices were well upon us prior to the '06 season. Would you agree that the Shipley in '06 and even much of '07 didn't match what you hear about him in '04? I assume you will give an honest answer.
And what you "knew" went pretty much off track for 2 seasons after the '05 injury. At this point you just don't to admit it.
At the risk of running in a complete circle, let me circle back slightly.
a. Ultimately, your point is that my listing Shipley as a known quantity with those other players heading into 2006 is a mistake and that he can't be viewed in 2016 as a player we knew in 2006 that would impact the kind of season Colt McCoy would have.
I disagree.
b. Shipley's recovering from consecutive major injuries left him as a bit of a question mark, I'll absolutely concede, but knowing the state of his physical health in August of 2006, I felt certain Shipley would absolutely have some sort of impact on the season because I viewed him THEN as the best receiver in the program three years running.
On a sidenote, you should have seen VY in practice with the rare healthy Shipley. It was a thing of a beauty. Think about how much more dangerous that 2005 COULD have been.
c. Ultimately, it's important to note that listing Shipley with that group doesn't mean that he was in his prime as a player, it just means that it was added piece that McCoy had going into the season with that you could safely say helped McCoy's transition. After all, Shipley had a pretty big role in the OU win that year. Even without a huge year, he was part of a strong talent base for McCoy to play with that was full of future pros. He was just the LEAST proven of the guys I rattled off.
d. This is an incredibly nitpicky thing, but I actually enjoy your nitpicks, especially when they are rather obscure.
I'll remember this one.
At the risk of running in a complete circle, let me circle back slightly.
a. Ultimately, your point is that my listing Shipley as a known quantity with those other players heading into 2006 is a mistake and that he can't be viewed in 2016 as a player we knew in 2006 that would impact the kind of season Colt McCoy would have.
I disagree.
b. Shipley's recovering from consecutive major injuries left him as a bit of a question mark, I'll absolutely concede, but knowing the state of his physical health in August of 2006, I felt certain Shipley would absolutely have some sort of impact on the season because I viewed him THEN as the best receiver in the program three years running.
On a sidenote, you should have seen VY in practice with the rare healthy Shipley. It was a thing of a beauty. Think about how much more dangerous that 2005 COULD have been.
c. Ultimately, it's important to note that listing Shipley with that group doesn't mean that he was in his prime as a player, it just means that it was added piece that McCoy had going into the season with that you could safely say helped McCoy's transition. After all, Shipley had a pretty big role in the OU win that year. Even without a huge year, he was part of a strong talent base for McCoy to play with that was full of future pros. He was just the LEAST proven of the guys I rattled off.
d. This is an incredibly nitpicky thing, but I actually enjoy your nitpicks, especially when they are rather obscure.
I'll remember this one.
Hey ketch--Haven't scrolled thru all the pages so apologies if this was already answered--but in the report it looked like you mentioned that Briles could have "allegedly" had contact with Oakman's lady in 2013. I may have missed it , but is this recent info that some people have just now found out from the report?
If that happened, and he talked to her, that seems like a huge huge deal and maybe I missed the discussion on it. I know lots of news outlets had commented on him possibly having prior knowledge, but hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere that he personally contacted her.
If that happened, and he talked to her, that seems like a huge huge deal and maybe I missed the discussion on it. I know lots of news outlets had commented on him possibly having prior knowledge, but hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere that he personally contacted her.
Not well known, but a paper trail exists per sourcing familiar with contact made by the in-house investigation.
I think I would slot him in 9th or 10th. Lots of juniors and seniors on the list. If we have a true freshman that is better than half the upperclassmen in the league, that's a bad league or one remarkable freshman. I hope it's that he's really good and not that the list is a bunch of garbage guys after the first 3 or 4. Where would you place a J Heard on the list?
Most of you didn't see Ship in high school. Trust Ketch on this one. A healthy Ship was shockingly explosive and elusive. One of the best ever IMO, even with the injuries. He would have started from the moment he walked on any campus in the country.
We still include him in conversations today about best schoolboy players ever and shake our heads at what might have been.
Jamaal didn't do all that much in 2006. Mack gave too many carries to Selvin and Jamaal was injured a bunch.
No one knew. We all thought there was a good chance those injuries would mean he would never be the same. It took until 2008, his junior year, for post injury Shipley to dominate.
Of course but for injuries he would have kicked ass starting in 2004.
Point was that we all had very guarded expectations for Shipley in 2006. He wasn't 100 percent. Not sure he ever was 100 percent. But he was much healthier in 2008 than 2006.
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