ADVERTISEMENT

Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (History repeating itself with baseball hire)

Never thought i would say this, but i actually agree with Ketch about the AR-15's. However, maybe a ban on large magazines (that can be fitted to many semi-automatic weapons) would be more effective than banning the AR-15 in itself.

The Ar-15 has been described as a weapon designed to kill people with maximum ease and efficiency. It was used by the gunman who shot dead 26 children and adults in Sandy Hook Elementary in 2012, then recently used again in Orlando.

"Gun control campaigners say there is no legitimate civilian use for the AR-15 semi-automatic weapon; its size and firepower mean it is a liability for home defense. And yet, say activists, it is repeatedly the weapon of choice for those who embark on deadly attacks on civilians."

"The AR-15 trademark is still held by Colt, but other patents have expired and clones (colloquially known as AR-15s) are made by several manufacturers - not just Remington. The difference in terms of 'selective fire' between the semi-automatic AR-15 and most M-16s used by the US military is not the ability to switch between semi and auto, but rather semi and 3-shot burst. Only some minority variants of currently issued M-16 have an 'auto' option, since this is not judged to be very effective. The 'receivers' (main body) on recent AR-15s have been re-designed so that M-16 trigger components can't be dropped straight in to convert easily to fully automatic.
There is no doubt that the AR-15 is marketed as a military style 'black rifle', but its action and characteristics are very similar to a large number of sporting semi-automatic rifles. Perhaps one could say that it is less practical for legitimate purposes than say a stock hunting or target rifle, but it does not fire any more quickly or use more lethal ammunition."

I am also a big supporter of the rights to bear arms but i am in favor of tougher gun laws in the USA. Banning semi-auto guns I would agree with, however, banning these guns will not stop terrorists from acquiring them..That is a fact.

Agree with this statement. I'm a supporter of guns to protect your home and for hunting but why does any citizen need a military grade weapon like an AR that is actually a liability for home defense... The only response I ever get is freedom, and afraid the government will continue with overall gun laws, but it is easy to draw the line with these weapons.

Nobody ever answers why the need or want one either, other than to say because they can have one.
 
There's more going on than religious zealotry. Save me the tragic rhetoric if you can't have a two-dimensional conversation.


A two dimensional conversation requires two (or more) dimensional analysis. Sure there can be more than one cause, but multiple causes are not inconsistent with acknowledgement of the root cause or the ultimate cause of an event. This is common in law and life. Law calls it the proximate cause. In industrial accidents they call it the root cause.

This guy was radicalized -- a religious zealot--and he acted in line with his beliefs, as odious as they were.
 
Jumping in late here, but I want to make sure you're not implying that an AR-15 is a weapon of war. It is not. It is a regular rifle. That it is styled like a military rifle does not mean that it performs like one.

AR15 is semi automatic, firing 20 rounds a minute. Firearms like the AR-15 can be purchased with a 30 round magazine, due to them being semi-automatic. The rate of fire depends on the speed of the shooter. If the shooter is quick enough he could fire the 30 rounds in 30 seconds, definitely less than a minute. The AK47's however, used in Europe, can fire at a rate of 300 rounds a minute. One could argue about the AR-15 being a weapon of war. But the AK47 is.
 
Agree with this statement. I'm a supporter of guns to protect your home and for hunting but why does any citizen need a military grade weapon like an AR that is actually a liability for home defense... The only response I ever get is freedom, and afraid the government will continue with overall gun laws, but it is easy to draw the line with these weapons.

Nobody ever answers why the need or want one either, other than to say because they can have one.

An AR is not a military grade weapon. Why do people insist on repeating this bald-faced lie? The Second Amendment says nothing about protecting your home or hunting. It clearly refers to the ability to form a militia to protect the State.
 
  • Like
Reactions: -Kirby-
AR15 is semi automatic, firing 20 rounds a minute. Firearms like the AR-15 can be purchased with a 30 round magazine and, due to them being semi-automatic. The rate of fire depends on the speed of the shooter. If the shooter is quick enough he could fire the 30 rounds in 30 seconds, definitely less than a minute. The AK47's however, used in Europe, can fire at a rate of 300 rounds a minute. One could argue about the AR-15 being a weapon of war. But the AK47 is.

Who mentioned an AK-47? An AR-15 is a civilian rifle. There's no ambiguity on that point.
 
Various news organizations are reporting that the Orlando terrorist, Mateen, was influenced over years by ISIS propaganda. If we had crushed them, instead of dithering for months on doing something (while viewing them as the "JV Team"), and now doing very limited airstrikes against them, would they be as appealing to him and others? I seriously doubt it.
 
Agree with this statement. I'm a supporter of guns to protect your home and for hunting but why does any citizen need a military grade weapon like an AR that is actually a liability for home defense... The only response I ever get is freedom, and afraid the government will continue with overall gun laws, but it is easy to draw the line with these weapons.

Nobody ever answers why the need or want one either, other than to say because they can have one.
I own an AR-15 for home defense. It is an accurate, easy to use weapon that I became very familiar with in the 1st Infantry Division. Anyone who seen the terrorist acts in San Bernadino or the riots in Baltimore is a fool if they don't take steps to protect their home. I am not trusting the lives of my wife and kids to some bolt action weapon.
 
Agree with this statement. I'm a supporter of guns to protect your home and for hunting but why does any citizen need a military grade weapon like an AR that is actually a liability for home defense... The only response I ever get is freedom, and afraid the government will continue with overall gun laws, but it is easy to draw the line with these weapons.

Nobody ever answers why the need or want one either, other than to say because they can have one.

In what regard is an AR a military grade weapon?

Why must I justify my right to own a gun to you or anyone else? Our constitution guarantees me the right. Isn't it up to you to justify the states need to deprive me of my right? I don't ask you why you need free association, religious freedom, a right to free speech, a fair trial.

There is a procedure available to you, Ketch, and others if they would like to change our constitution. By all means change it if you can.
 
Last edited:
TIL learned that civilian rifles are weapons of mass destruction.
 
  • Like
Reactions: -Kirby-
Various news organizations are reporting that the Orlando terrorist, Mateen, was influenced over years by ISIS propaganda. If we had crushed them, instead of dithering for months on doing something (while viewing them as the "JV Team"), and now doing very limited airstrikes against them, would they be as appealing to him and others? I seriously doubt it.

Let's start regulating Internet content. We can set up a government panel to approve what can be broadcast. No hate speech allowed. Surely this attack is bad enough that we should begin to limit free speech rights. After all, who really needs the internet if all that you want to do is spread hate.
 
In what percentage of mass shootings did the perpetrator use shoes as transportation paraphernalia?
 
An AR is not a military grade weapon. Why do people insist on repeating this bald-faced lie? The Second Amendment says nothing about protecting your home or hunting. It clearly refers to the ability to form a militia to protect the State.

Sorry, I guess I missed the part about people buying ARs as part of a "well regulated" militia.
 
Sorry, I guess I missed the part about people buying ARs as part of a "well regulated" militia.

See, the cool thing about guaranteed rights is that you don't have to justify them to anyone. They just are there to be enjoyed by anyone motivated to do so. (And if you don't think a significant percentage of AR-15 owners possess that and other firearms at least partially out of fear of needing to defend their homes or communities or states or nation, you are completely ignorant.)
 
Let's start regulating Internet content. We can set up a government panel to approve what can be broadcast. No hate speech allowed. Surely this attack is bad enough that we should begin to limit free speech rights. After all, who really needs the internet if all that you want to do is spread hate.
If you are indeed replying to my post, you need to go back & re-read it. I'm not the least bit interested in regulating the internet, or any other source of information. I'm interested in crushing ISIS. The longer we leave them functioning (even enjoying some victories), the more effective their propaganda is.
 
Agree with this statement. I'm a supporter of guns to protect your home and for hunting but why does any citizen need a military grade weapon like an AR that is actually a liability for home defense... The only response I ever get is freedom, and afraid the government will continue with overall gun laws, but it is easy to draw the line with these weapons.

Nobody ever answers why the need or want one either, other than to say because they can have one.
Holy potato, Batman.

The AR15 is not a military grade weapon. Please read that again and again until this sinks in.

Just because a lie is regularly repeated doesn't make it the truth.
Sorry, I guess I missed the part about people buying ARs as part of a "well regulated" militia.
See kids, this is where the goal posts are moved to fit a new narrative after the last was debunked.
 
I don't know why I did it, but I went down the rabbit hole on Facebook today. I saw a couple of liberal and gay friends make posts on Orlando and read all the comments and the comments on the comments. Not once did I see anything about lunatic islamic extremists, in fact I read several comments that we shouldn't blame Muslims. In order, blame rests with 1.) Gun crazed Americans 2.) Gay bashers and 3.) Donald Trump.

I felt like I was taking crazy pills. This guy by all accounts hated America, so he was a gun toting America hater. The gay bashing is true, as this guy hated gays, but several posts made it sound like 2016 was the equivalent of 1940's black America. While they may not like Donald Trump, I have know idea how he's relevant to the shooting in Orlando.
 
If you are indeed replying to my post, you need to go back & re-read it. I'm not the least bit interested in regulating the internet, or any other source of information. I'm interested in crushing ISIS. The longer we leave them functioning (even enjoying some victories), the more effective their propaganda is.

Tongue firmly in cheek.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SMS777
One letter more then I thought I would get. Carry on. You are way out of your element. Should we ban your wife's semi-auto pistol or is it not a "weapon of mass destruction"?
Quick question. Humor the guy out of his element.

Do you believe that folks on terrorist watch lists should have access to buy these gins legally?

Again, humor me.
 
A two dimensional conversation requires two (or more) dimensional analysis. Sure there can be more than one cause, but multiple causes are not inconsistent with acknowledgement of the root cause or the ultimate cause of an event. This is common in law and life. Law calls it the proximate cause. In industrial accidents they call it the root cause.

This guy was radicalized -- a religious zealot--and he acted in line with his beliefs, as odious as they were.
what about the guy on his way to L.A. from Indiana?

Interesting that none of you have mentioned the gay or lesbian community even once as an element of discussion.
 
The old ass-whip-and-bail routine. You're a master.
lol... k.

I'm quite content and letting the discussion speak for itself. Ironically, the fact that some discussion has taken place makes me the winner in this by default.

The presence of mere discussion is a step towards eventual action.

Have a great night. Enjoy the game tonight, my evil alias.
 
what about the guy on his way to L.A. from Indiana?

Interesting that none of you have mentioned the gay or lesbian community even once as an element of discussion.
Islamic terrorists hate gays. That's pretty well chronicled and talked about elsewhere. This forum turned largely into a gun thing and you helped greatly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DanielSucks
Quick question. Humor the guy out of his element.

Do you believe that folks on terrorist watch lists should have access to buy these gins legally?

Again, humor me.


Do you believe not selling a gun "legally" to a guy on a terrorist watch list is going to somehow prevent him from getting a gun if he wants one? I mean, I realize that terrorists are known for obeying the laws and all, but I still don't think it's going to stop a single terrorist from getting any gun he wants.
 
Has TTFTW ever been moved to the Corral? I know several posters stated it already, but AR-15s aren't automatic weapons. We use them for hunting, especially hogs/pigs. The backlash and squabbling will actually increase the sale of ARs based on additional fear of future gun control by liberals.
 
See, the cool thing about guaranteed rights is that you don't have to justify them to anyone. They just are there to be enjoyed by anyone motivated to do so. (And if you don't think a significant percentage of AR-15 owners possess that and other firearms at least partially out of fear of needing to defend their homes or communities or states or nation, you are completely ignorant.)
If an AR-15 is such a popgun, how's it going to help anyone defend the nation?
 
Islamic terrorists hate gays. That's pretty well chronicled and talked about elsewhere. This forum turned largely into a gun thing and you helped greatly.
I'm the one trying to have a conversation about there being many layers to what happened. I didn't make this a gun issue and gun issue alone. Far from it.
 
Do you believe not selling a gun "legally" to a guy on a terrorist watch list is going to somehow prevent him from getting a gun if he wants one? I mean, I realize that terrorists are known for obeying the laws and all, but I still don't think it's going to stop a single terrorist from getting any gun he wants.
You didn't answer the question. Not sure that was what you were trying to do, but you didn't.
 
Has TTFTW ever been moved to the Corral? I know several posters stated it already, but AR-15s aren't automatic weapons. We use them for hunting, especially hogs/pigs. The backlash and squabbling will actually increase the sale of ARs based on additional fear of future gun control by liberals.
Huge sales day today per reports.

Part of the issues of those guns is the ease with which they can be altered to become more dangerous, all by legal means.

Lot of fear in this thread for sure.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT