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Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (Let's just keep it real about Bama...)

Last week it was Kevin Durant.

This week it's Michael Irvin's 1991 season.

This thread is always something else.

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
 
I did read the article.

I know that he had three games that were statistically equal or better than that before that game.

Also, you have to know that beating the Giants was a bigger deal in week 5 than anything else that happened that season. Dallas always played Washington well.

Hell, he caught 6 for 149 and 3 TD against Green as a rookie when Dallas nearly cost itself a chance to land Aikman when they beat Washington 24-17 behind his 3 TD in the second to last game of the season.

We just disagree on the notion of his "breakout".

Lol. You think a home win in game 5 was bigger than a road W at unbeaten Wash with their playoff hopes hanging on by a thread?

Uhhh, you might want to read up on that ‘88 game. Specifically how Green missed most of it after breaking his hand. Lol
 
Lol. You think a home win in game 5 was bigger than a road W at unbeaten Wash with their playoff hopes hanging on by a thread?

Uhhh, you might want to read up on that ‘88 game. Specifically how Green missed most of it after breaking his hand. Lol

Yes.

It was a major marker moment in that season. The Giants had owned Dallas in recent years... just dominated them.

Dallas gave up 10 fourth quarter points to fall behind in the game. They get the ball back and go 80+ yards on the final drive with Irvin making two monster plays against the defending champs, including the game winning touchdown, as he throws a defender off of him to get to the end zone.

The bottom line is that Irvin had already broken out before week 12 of that season. But, sure, dig in.

p.s. Green started in the 1988 game when Irvin went off... broken hand or not.

Boxscore

 
Last week it was Kevin Durant.

This week it's Michael Irvin's 1991 season.

This thread is always something else.

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
You called?
 
p.s. Green started in the 1988 game when Irvin went off... broken hand or not.

P.S. he broke his hand early in the game and sat most of it. Lol.

P.S. Don’t make this hard. ‘91 game at Washington is where both the Cowboys AND Irvin officially took the next step and never looked back. You are so far off on this
 
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P.S. Don’t make this hard. ‘91 game at Washington is where both the Cowboys AND Irvin officially took the next step and never looked back. You are so far off on this

Yes, it is where the Cowboys took a big step. That's not for debate.

What is open for debate is that you called the game the breakout game of Irvin's career. and I disagree.

He literally led the NFL in receiving yards (tied with Gary Clark, technically) coming into that game in week 12. He had already broken out as a player.

That's the only point that matters in this conversation.

But, sure, if we want to ignore that he was already on his way to having one of the best seasons of any receiver in the sport heading into that game so that you can call his week 12 performance his breakout... go for it.
 
BTW, in a show of how big of a nerd I am, I still have my newspaper clip outs of the 1991 season.

A few notes that stood out to me.

a. The Cowboys hadn't played into the fourth quarter with the Giants in three seasons before that win in 1991. It was a big deal to even play them close.

b. In the Mickey Spagnola article on the game shown below, Irvin's name is mentioned once in all of the copy that you see. Meanwhile, a number of paragraphs are dedicated to the Harper Hail Mary, with the play called "Rocket".

c. Irvin was referred to in the article (see 7th paragraph) as a"potential Pro Bowler and that he "humbled" Green, but no real special mention of his performance was made in real time as the moment was reported by the Dallas Morning News.

This, sir, is called having receipts. :)

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What did he do? Two? ;) Still got time!
I’m not going to count the freak show fights, and I’m pretty sure after getting KO’d by Jake Paul, he’s not getting any more calls, so no, it’s over. Haha.
 
I’m not going to count the freak show fights, and I’m pretty sure after getting KO’d by Jake Paul, he’s not getting any more calls, so no, it’s over. Haha.
It's never over for Dana. He loves throwing names into fights.

Aldo was literally the No.3 match in the last PPV.

I just picked the wrong guy to hitch my wagon to!
 
BTW, in a show of how big of a nerd I am, I still have my newspaper clip outs of the 1991 season.

A few notes that stood out to me.

a. The Cowboys hadn't played into the fourth quarter with the Giants in three seasons before that win in 1991. It was a big deal to even play them close.

b. In the Mickey Spagnola article on the game shown below, Irvin's name is mentioned once in all of the copy that you see. Meanwhile, a number of paragraphs are dedicated to the Harper Hail Mary, with the play called "Rocket".

c. Irvin was referred to in the article (see 7th paragraph) as a"potential Pro Bowler and that he "humbled" Green, but no real special mention of his performance was made in real time as the moment was reported by the Dallas Morning News.

This, sir, is called having receipts. :)

View attachment 3175
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Tge Cowboys “did the unheard of,” and “”threw on Pro Bowl cornerback Darrell Green.” Context is everything. You should be smart to understand what that quote means without someone having to actually spell it out for you. Lol

Thanks for the receipts lol.
 
Tge Cowboys “did the unheard of,” and “”threw on Pro Bowl cornerback Darrell Green.” Context is everything. You should be smart to understand what that quote means without someone having to actually spell it out for you. Lol

Thanks for the receipts lol.

7th paragraph, no further mention in the entire story.

p.s. who was leading the league in receiving yards entering the game?

200.gif
 
7th paragraph, no further mention in the entire story.

p.s. who was leading the league in receiving yards entering the game?

200.gif

lol. Read the article

You’re wrong I’m right

Since you refuse to for obvious reasons, allow me:

“At the start of last season, Irvin was at a turning point in his career. He knew that he had not reached the expectations he had set for himself and vowed to change that.

And change it, he did. In 1991, he was voted to his first Pro Bowl after leading the league in yards receiving with 1,523 and the NFC in catches with 93.

He set a team record with seven 100-yard games and had 11 catches of 25 yards or more and eight touchdowns.


The game in which this role was clearly defined was Dallas’ 24-21 regular-season victory over Washington. Working mostly against all-pro cornerback Darrell Green, Irvin caught nine passes for 130 yards and a touchdown.

The play Irvin remembers most about that game occurred late in the fourth quarter, when the Cowboys needed nine yards on third down. With a seven-point lead, Dallas needed a field goal to ensure victory and Coach Jimmy Johnson looked to Irvin to keep the drive alive.

“Can you get inside?” Johnson asked his standout receiver.

“I have to, don’t I?” Irvin said.

Johnson called for a slant pattern against Green and Irvin beat the Washington defender to the ball to make the first down and help preserve Dallas’ biggest victory of the season.”

Lol, you’re playing checkers my friend. Quite poorly I might add. Since you can bring yourself to admit as such I will move.
The game in which this role was clearly defined was Dallas’ 24-21 regular-season victory over Washington. Working mostly against all-pro cornerback Darrell Green, Irvin caught nine passes for 130 yards and a touchdown.

The play Irvin remembers most about that game occurred late in the fourth quarter, when the Cowboys needed nine yards on third down. With a seven-point lead, Dallas needed a field goal to ensure victory and Coach Jimmy Johnson looked to Irvin to keep the drive alive.

“Can you get inside?” Johnson asked his standout receiver.

“I have to, don’t I?” Irvin said.

Johnson called for a slant pattern against Green and Irvin beat the Washington defender to the ball to make the first down and help preserve Dallas’ biggest victory of the season.

You’re playing checkers my friend. And quite badly. Since you can’t admit the obvious I will simply move past this. Lol
 
lol. Read the article

You’re wrong I’m right

Since you refuse to for obvious reasons, allow me:

“At the start of last season, Irvin was at a turning point in his career. He knew that he had not reached the expectations he had set for himself and vowed to change that.

And change it, he did. In 1991, he was voted to his first Pro Bowl after leading the league in yards receiving with 1,523 and the NFC in catches with 93.

He set a team record with seven 100-yard games and had 11 catches of 25 yards or more and eight touchdowns.


The game in which this role was clearly defined was Dallas’ 24-21 regular-season victory over Washington. Working mostly against all-pro cornerback Darrell Green, Irvin caught nine passes for 130 yards and a touchdown.

The play Irvin remembers most about that game occurred late in the fourth quarter, when the Cowboys needed nine yards on third down. With a seven-point lead, Dallas needed a field goal to ensure victory and Coach Jimmy Johnson looked to Irvin to keep the drive alive.

“Can you get inside?” Johnson asked his standout receiver.

“I have to, don’t I?” Irvin said.

Johnson called for a slant pattern against Green and Irvin beat the Washington defender to the ball to make the first down and help preserve Dallas’ biggest victory of the season.”

Lol, you’re playing checkers my friend. Quite poorly I might add. Since you can bring yourself to admit as such I will move.
The game in which this role was clearly defined was Dallas’ 24-21 regular-season victory over Washington. Working mostly against all-pro cornerback Darrell Green, Irvin caught nine passes for 130 yards and a touchdown.

The play Irvin remembers most about that game occurred late in the fourth quarter, when the Cowboys needed nine yards on third down. With a seven-point lead, Dallas needed a field goal to ensure victory and Coach Jimmy Johnson looked to Irvin to keep the drive alive.

“Can you get inside?” Johnson asked his standout receiver.

“I have to, don’t I?” Irvin said.

Johnson called for a slant pattern against Green and Irvin beat the Washington defender to the ball to make the first down and help preserve Dallas’ biggest victory of the season.

You’re playing checkers my friend. And quite badly. Since you can’t admit the obvious I will simply move past this. Lol
You didn't answer the question.

Who led the NFL in receiving yards in 1991 going into week 12?
 

No. 10 - And Finally ...

With a little self-reflection on Sunday, I've decided to make a vow moving forward... I will not engage in any further discussion of other sites or the people that work for other sites/networks.

No matter my thoughts about the subject, getting sucked into such things only cheapens me and the site. I can't keep being Marty McFly and getting dragged into the sewage because someone called me chicken.

HatefulDaringKoodoo-size_restricted.gif


As someone that has made a point to lay off of the public political chatter, I know all of this comes down to discipline.

Every time I fail to live up to this standard, I will donate $200 to a charity to be named later. I'm done. There's an old saying in this job that there are two kinds of reporters in this world... those that report the news and those that talk about those that report the news. It will be my continued focus to be the former.
You have my permission to still make fun of Looch, without any $200 cost
 
You didn't answer the question.

Who led the NFL in receiving yards in 1991 going into week 12?

I don’t know. You said Irvin was tied with Gary Clark. I assume you actually looked that up and aren’t lying. Lol.

How many of those first 11 games saw him torch a future HOFer?

How many receptions and yds total did Irvin have in the 3 games immediately prior?

How many receptions and yards did Irvin in the 4 games immediately after?

Do you understand what a “breakout game” is?

More required reading

Focus on how Green described his own play that day. This isn’t difficult son
 
Good stuff Ketch. Hopefully everyone keeps it real this week. I want to see a competitive game for 3 quarters. I’m an OL and DL guy. Texas just doesn’t match up. Although it feels like DL is deep and talented but I have no idea if PL scheme is bad fit or what. Regardless I’m excited about 2023 and not planning to meltdown after this weekend.
 
I don’t know. You said Irvin was tied with Gary Clark. I assume you actually looked that up and aren’t lying. Lol.

How many of those first 11 games saw him torch a future HOFer?

How many receptions and yds total did Irvin have in the 3 games immediately prior?

How many receptions and yards did Irvin in the 4 games immediately after?

Do you understand what a “breakout game” is?

More required reading

Focus on how Green described his own play that day. This isn’t difficult son
Calm down man. Calm down.
 
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You could have just stopped there. ;)

You could have stopped a long time ago. Starting with phantom “breakout game” in ‘90. Or calling a 90 yd effort against 2-2 Ray Handley coached Giants a breakout game. Or not knowing Green played very little in the ‘88 game due to a broken. Of course, for someone who preaches “nuance” it’s pretty ironic to rely on a sole simple stat when discussing the topic of a singular breakout game.

Just to summarize, you were wrong when you said Irvin’s “breakout game” against Skins/Green was not the same game you referenced Jimmy’s quote. Honestly a “simple my bad” would have worked better than the bizarre reasonings you came up with regarding the matter of Irvin. Lol
 
You could have stopped a long time ago. Starting with phantom “breakout game” in ‘90. Or calling a 90 yd effort against 2-2 Ray Handley coached Giants a breakout game. Or not knowing Green played very little in the ‘88 game due to a broken. Of course, for someone who preaches “nuance” it’s pretty ironic to rely on a sole simple stat when discussing the topic of a singular breakout game.

Just to summarize, you were wrong when you said Irvin’s “breakout game” against Skins/Green was not the same game you referenced Jimmy’s quote. Honestly a “simple my bad” would have worked better than the bizarre reasonings you came up with regarding the matter of Irvin. Lol

I've already acknowledged that I was wrong about his performance in 1988.

It doesn't mean that his fourth game of the season in which he broke 120+ yards by week 12, which might have been his third or fourth best performance of that season over 16 games (week 13 vs. Woodson and week 16 vs. Deion stand out more to me) was his breakout game.

I've displayed literal copy from the DMN the next morning after the game that far from treated it as some sort of outlier to his season since he was already going to be a Pro Bowler with or without that game.

It's a subjective discussion. We disagree. We both making compelling cases IMO.
 
I've already acknowledged that I was wrong about his performance in 1988.

It doesn't mean that his fourth game of the season in which he broke 120+ yards by week 12, which might have been his third or fourth best performance of that season over 16 games (week 13 vs. Woodson and week 16 vs. Deion stand out more to me) was his breakout game.

I've displayed literal copy from the DMN the next morning after the game that far from treated it as some sort of outlier to his season since he was already going to be a Pro Bowler with or without that game.

It's a subjective discussion. We disagree. We both making compelling cases IMO.

The article said “potential.” Lol. More BS from you. I swear you simply don’t understand “breakout game.” You literally argued a sub 100 yd game was a “breakout.” Do you understand why it doesn’t matter if his games against Woodson or Sanders were better in this discussion? It’s because they came AFTER. He literally destroyed a future HOFer that set off a finishing stretch of games that lifted his career. That’s literally a “breakout game.” lol
 
How many of those first 11 games saw him torch a future HOFer?

How many receptions and yds total did Irvin have in the 3 games immediately prior?

How many receptions and yards did Irvin in the 4 games immediately after?

Do you understand what a “breakout game” is?

More required reading

Focus on how Green described his own play that day. This isn’t difficult son

a. Five NFL Hall of Fame DBs were active in the 1991 season. I don't recall how much Aeneas Williams played as a rookie in 1991, but it's probably safe to say that he played him twice since they played Pheonix twice that season before week 12 and Willliams was an All-Rookie team player

b. He went 4 for 52 against Williams and the Cardinals, he went 7 for 84 and a TD against the best team in the AFC (for my money) in the Oilers and he caught 3 for 48 in a loss to the Giants. In the two games before those three, he caught 6 for 148 and a touchdown in a win over the Bengals and 8 for 143 in a horrible loss to the Lions.

c. Possibly the best 5 game stretch of his career.

d. The definition of a breakout game is to perform at a level that has previously not been seen.

If that can only happen against Hall of Fame players, you are correct. If it can happen in other games not involving Hall of Fame players, I am correct.

Again, going into week 12 he had already had a game with nine catches and two games of more than 130 yards.
 
The article said “potential.” Lol. More BS from you. I swear you simply don’t understand “breakout game.” You literally argued a sub 100 yd game was a “breakout.” Do you understand why it doesn’t matter if his games against Woodson or Sanders were better in this discussion? It’s because they came AFTER. He literally destroyed a future HOFer that set off a finishing stretch of games that lifted his career. That’s literally a “breakout game.” lol

I mostly argued that his game against the Giants, which doesn't happen without his six catches for 91 yards and a touchdown, including two huge plays late is the equal to his performance vs. Washington, was virtually on the same level.

One was against the defending NFL champs and a team thad dominated the Cowboys in six previous meetings and the other was against a Hall of Fame corner.

Both were huge wins. Both were statement wins when they occurred during that season.

Frankly, I'm surprised that anyone would argue the importance of that Giants win. It was a really big deal in real time.
 
I mostly argued that his game against the Giants, which doesn't happen without his six catches for 91 yards and a touchdown, including two huge plays late is the equal to his performance vs. Washington, was virtually on the same level.

One was against the defending NFL champs and a team thad dominated the Cowboys in six previous meetings and the other was against a Hall of Fame corner.

Both were huge wins. Both were statement wins when they occurred during that season.

Frankly, I'm surprised that anyone would argue the importance of that Giants win. It was a really big deal in real time.

Lol. Did I ever argue it wasn’t important? I laughed at the argument it was more important than a November game against the unbeaten (subsequent SB champs) with their playoff hopes dangling by a thread. The fact you even want to STILL equate two shows a bizarre lack of nuance or, pardon me, football knowledge. You literally might be the ONLY person clinging to a September home win over 2-2 Ray Handley coached NY team as some epic triumph. I mean shit, why didn’t Jimmy say all that before that Giants game lol? You dang sure are the only one who thinks it was more important than the Washington W.
 
Lol. Did I ever argue it wasn’t important? I laughed at the argument it was more important than a November game against the unbeaten (subsequent SB champs) with their playoff hopes dangling by a thread. The fact you even want to STILL equate two shows a bizarre lack of nuance or, pardon me, football knowledge. You literally might be the ONLY person clinging to a September home win over 2-2 Ray Handley coached NY team as some epic triumph. I mean shit, why didn’t Jimmy say all that before that Giants game lol? You dang sure are the only one who thinks it was more important than the Washington W.

Im Out Amy Poehler GIF by FOX TV
 
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One was against the defending NFL champs and a team thad dominated the Cowboys in six previous meetings and the other was against a Hall of Fame corner.

Honestly, this quote is pure stupidity. The Redskins literally were EASILY the best team in the league that season that was punctuated by their beat down of Buffalo in the SB. Lol
 
1) I started a thread during the game about Dmo. He was the best player on the field last night. Not to say he’s a better player/prospect than Bijan because that’s silly. But last night he was the best player. He plays like that and he’ll get drafted early to mid rounds.

2) It’s Bama and Georgia and then everybody else. Outside shot for Ohio State, and we’ll see if Clemson has any punch this year. Those are my 4 playoff teams.

3) This is still the best column in the business by far, and the best site. Ignore the rest, numbers don’t lie.
Who is DMO?
 
Honestly, this quote is pure stupidity. The Redskins literally were EASILY the best team in the league that season that was punctuated by their beat down of Buffalo in the SB. Lol

Describe Dallas' previous success between 1987-1990 against both teams.
 
Describe Dallas' previous success between 1987-1990 against both teams.

Can you tell me what that tangibly has to do with a 6-5 team struggling to make the playoffs going into the home of the league’s best team who was also unbeaten and coming away with the W? Why didn’t Jimmy Johnson make such a statement after the Giants game? I mean, after all you think it was a bigger game and clearly you think beating 2-2 Ray Handly in Dallas was a much bigger accomplishment than winning in RFK in November against an unbeaten Skins team that was 2 months shy of being crowned SB champs.
 
To provide a little context....

Dallas beat Washington on the road when they won 3 games in 1988, they beat on the road when they won one game in 1989 and they beat them in 1990 on Thanksgiving.

Irvin had four touchdowns in those three wins.

In the six games against the Giants prior to the fourth quarter, come-from-behind win in 1991, the Giants had won by the following scores:

12-10
29-21
30-13
15-0
28-7
31-17

In the games that looked semi-close, it was because Dallas scored in the 4th quarter when the game was already over.
 
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Can you tell me what that tangibly has to do with a 6-5 team struggling to make the playoffs going into the home of the league’s best team who was also unbeaten and coming away with the W? Why didn’t Jimmy Johnson make such a statement after the Giants game? I mean, after all you think it was a bigger game and clearly you think beating 2-2 Ray Handly in Dallas was a much bigger accomplishment than winning in RFK in November against an unbeaten Skins team that was 2 months shy of being crowned SB champs.

I literally have the newspaper story from that game that has quotes from Johnson trying to go out of his way not to make too big of a deal out of what was being treated as a really big deal when it occurred.

But, yes, the Washington win was the bigger win on the whole.

I'm merely stating that the Giants win was a huge win as well and that Irvin was a total difference-maker in that game.

Here's a question for you.... what is your definition of "breakout"?

Follow-up question.... in your mind, what was Emmitt's breakout game?
 
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