Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (More talented than the team that got Mack fired?...)
- Thread starter Ketchum
- Start date
It scares me that we might be overcooking the grits with this group.
Those defensive rankings suggest Ash has his work cut out for him.
5 star hype matters before they've played. Not after they show up looking like jags.
Going to have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there.
Btw you have mentioned that when Brown and Gray arrived to their first camp, nobody was gushing over them like they have Bijan.
I'm reaching back to what I thought in 2013, and I was not nearly as excited about that RB unit as I am this group. This is the best three-headed monster at RB I can remember.
You're sorta overcooking what they did in '12.
For one, they didn't really come close to 2k yds, much like go over. The trio combined for less than 1600 yds. in '19, Ingram and a guy converted from QB just weeks before the season combined for 1500 yds.
The '12 trio averaged 4.7 yds/carry
'19 duo including a guy converted from QB just weeks before the season averaged 5.6 ypc.
The '19 duo including a guy converted from QB just weeks before the season combined for 18 TDs.
Ash getting hurt was a huge blow to the program. It has taken us years to recover.
I would even say that the WR for 2010 should be higher.
Forgot about Malcolm Williams and Brandon Collins. They were both slated to be Jrs that year and the hype before the season was that we would not have much drop-off from 2009.
Hard to not have that 2010 defense first in every category as well. I believe it ended up in the top 10 in total defense that year in the country.
Except neither guy that played last year played well consistently. On the contrary, you never knew what you were going to get from week to week... from either of them.
a. I said 2,000 yards of offense and 25 touchdowns
Just shy of 2,000 yards of total offense and 25 touchdowns.
b. The numbers from a year ago are part of a Big12 wide inflation of running game stats. I think Kennedy Brooks has a higher YPC than Adrian Peterson by a full yard.
Is he a full yard per carry better than Peterson?
c. Neither back returning from last season put more than two or three quality performances in a row together. From week to week, you didn't know if Ingram was going to go for 80+ or get limited to less than 10 yards.
The 2012 guys was consistently pretty good, and never better than that, but they were consistently pretty good and productive.
Ingram and Johnson were not.
And the guys in '12 did?
Gray's total rushing gamelog - 9, 50, 60, 68, 87, 16, 56, 111, 106. 74, 47, 29, 18
Brown - 105, 5, 128, 7, 31, 40, 8
Bergeron - 110, 49, 48, 48, 45, 1, 117, 32, 14, 86, 12, 3, 2.
Again, you're greatly overcooking that group.
Don't confuse spending money with accountability. CDC hamstrung the athletic department by extending Herman prematurely. Texas has routinely overspent and not received a good return for it.
I couldn't forget about players that weren't in camp. 12 days from the start of the season that year, we knew what was what at that position. It was a big question mark, but almost everyone assume dit would be ok.
Keep in mind this is the year that the Longhorns lost a much-talked about 7 on 7 showdown with Texas State.
Not really. It's just better on paper coming in than this group when you consider all factors, as I've outlined.
Brown and Gray were more proven and had performed better than the 2020 group.
Look, almost no one has hyped Ingram up as much as I have coming into this season. I've labeled him the fifth best returning player on the team if I remember correctly.
However, this is what his season looked like from October through November.
Four out of 8 games... less than 20 yards. He no-showed in some critical games.
However, this is what his season looked like from October through November.
Four out of 8 games... less than 20 yards. He no-showed in some critical games.
a. I said 2,000 yards of offense and 25 touchdowns
Just shy of 2,000 yards of total offense and 25 touchdowns.
b. The numbers from a year ago are part of a Big12 wide inflation of running game stats. I think Kennedy Brooks has a higher YPC than Adrian Peterson by a full yard.
Is he a full yard per carry better than Peterson?
c. Neither back returning from last season put more than two or three quality performances in a row together. From week to week, you didn't know if Ingram was going to go for 80+ or get limited to less than 10 yards.
The 2012 guys was consistently pretty good, and never better than that, but they were consistently pretty good and productive.
Ingram and Johnson were not.
LOL. Ok then
The '19 group, including a QB converted to RB just weeks before the season combined for 1900 yds total offense and 18 TDs.
Are we ignoring Peterson played damn near FIFTEEN years ago?
And how many of the '12 backs put together more than 2-3 quality performances together.
Again, overcooking '12. At the end of the day, the TRIO from '12 BARELY outotaled the duo (including a guy converted to RB just weeks before the season) and were a full yd worse in YPC. What part of overcooking '12 are you not getting.
Not really. It's "better" because you want it be. The objective numbers simply don't support that.
Gray was a frosh in '12. He ran for 700 yds and 3 TDs. He totaled 852 yds and 4 TDs
Brown was a soph. Going into '13 he had rush for under 1100 yds & 9 TDs. He had totaled under 1200 yds & 10 TDs
The QB converted to RB just weeks before the season, as a frosh, ran for 649 yds & 7 TDs. He totaled 807 yds & 8 TDs
Ingram has 2 years under his belt. He's rushed for 1500+ yds & 10 TDs. He's totaled nearly 2000 yds & 15 TDs.
With all due respect, your hard-headed insistence is, well, at this point beyond humorous. And with all due respect, the notion that EITHER Brown or Gray were more proven than Ingram, is well, sorta ignorant.
I'm not overcooking, either.
I'm just saying that one ]better than ok group is better than last year's also just ok group and more inconsistent group.
Gray's solid consistency and the return to health of Brown are my reasons. Everyone was really high on that group back then... only knowing the history of them has dampened that really,.
But, it's still a reality.
I'd offer that I understand why you'd potentially flip them. I'm just explaining why I did.
Not that I usually put any weight into Phil Steele, but just for giggles, he had Gray listed as third team All-Big 12 for 2013 in the pre-season, while Brown was fourth-team.
Damien Williams, Lache Seastrunk, John Hubert and James Sims were listed above them.
Anyone know how he ranks the backs in the conference this year?
Damien Williams, Lache Seastrunk, John Hubert and James Sims were listed above them.
Anyone know how he ranks the backs in the conference this year?
Numbers and accolades aside, and just focusing on the eyeball test of "who is the more talented RB", I can't believe most would take the 2013 group over this one.a. I said 2,000 yards of offense and 25 touchdowns
Just shy of 2,000 yards of total offense and 25 touchdowns.
b. The numbers from a year ago are part of a Big12 wide inflation of running game stats. I think Kennedy Brooks has a higher YPC than Adrian Peterson by a full yard.
Is he a full yard per carry better than Peterson?
c. Neither back returning from last season put more than two or three quality performances in a row together. From week to week, you didn't know if Ingram was going to go for 80+ or get limited to less than 10 yards.
The 2012 guys was consistently pretty good, and never better than that, but they were consistently pretty good and productive.
Ingram and Johnson were not.
I think most would feel like we're in good hands with any of the current three getting a majority of carries. Can you say that about Bergeron in 2013?
Yeah, 5 games under 50 yards for the bell cow JGray doesn't scream "consistently solid" to me.
I think this is a case of you choosing the devil you don't know vs. the devil you know all about.
Only two games less than 47.
That's called a month for Ingram and Johnson last year, no?
I won't deny there are multiple biases at work. But I'm honestly trying to put myself back in August 2013 and comparing to now. That's my final word on this.
Sure but I'm not defending their consistency. That's one of the last words I'd use to describe Ingram, in particular. I just wouldn't say the 2012 guys were consistent, either.
Actually 5. I had Gray's log wrong. It's actually worse
9
30
50
68
87
16
56
111
106
74
47
29
18
RoJo's last season
26
32
59
30
121
95
46
9
37
18
22
105
49
So they had the same number of 100+ games. Roschon's 3rd highest (95) was better than Gray's (97). Roschon had an appreciably higher YPC and 3 more TDs.
That might make more sense if that were somewhat based on the reality of what is known and unknown. I think I've shown you are stretching greatly what you think you know and what you think you don't know. Because it's not based on objective data.
and yet the coaches didn't trust him.
At least Mack and his staff trusted Gray, even if perhaps wrongly so to a degree
