Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (More talented than the team that got Mack fired?...)

[Ketchum]

I would even say that the WR for 2010 should be higher.

Forgot about Malcolm Williams and Brandon Collins. They were both slated to be Jrs that year and the hype before the season was that we would not have much drop-off from 2009.

Hard to not have that 2010 defense first in every category as well. I believe it ended up in the top 10 in total defense that year in the country.

I couldn't forget about players that weren't in camp. 12 days from the start of the season that year, we knew what was what at that position. It was a big question mark, but almost everyone assume dit would be ok.

Keep in mind this is the year that the Longhorns lost a much-talked about 7 on 7 showdown with Texas State.

 

[Ketchum]

And the guys in '12 did?
Gray's total rushing gamelog - 9, 50, 60, 68, 87, 16, 56, 111, 106. 74, 47, 29, 18
Brown - 105, 5, 128, 7, 31, 40, 8
Bergeron - 110, 49, 48, 48, 45, 1, 117, 32, 14, 86, 12, 3, 2.

Again, you're greatly overcooking that group.

Not really. It's just better on paper coming in than this group when you consider all factors, as I've outlined.

Brown and Gray were more proven and had performed better than the 2020 group.

 

[Ketchum]

Look, almost no one has hyped Ingram up as much as I have coming into this season. I've labeled him the fifth best returning player on the team if I remember correctly.

However, this is what his season looked like from October through November.

Four out of 8 games... less than 20 yards. He no-showed in some critical games.

 

[RLong68]

a. I said 2,000 yards of offense and 25 touchdowns

Just shy of 2,000 yards of total offense and 25 touchdowns.

b. The numbers from a year ago are part of a Big12 wide inflation of running game stats. I think Kennedy Brooks has a higher YPC than Adrian Peterson by a full yard.

Is he a full yard per carry better than Peterson?

c. Neither back returning from last season put more than two or three quality performances in a row together. From week to week, you didn't know if Ingram was going to go for 80+ or get limited to less than 10 yards.

The 2012 guys was consistently pretty good, and never better than that, but they were consistently pretty good and productive.

Ingram and Johnson were not.

LOL. Ok then
The '19 group, including a QB converted to RB just weeks before the season combined for 1900 yds total offense and 18 TDs.
Are we ignoring Peterson played damn near FIFTEEN years ago?
And how many of the '12 backs put together more than 2-3 quality performances together.

Again, overcooking '12. At the end of the day, the TRIO from '12 BARELY outotaled the duo (including a guy converted to RB just weeks before the season) and were a full yd worse in YPC. What part of overcooking '12 are you not getting.

 

[RLong68]

Not really. It's just better on paper coming in than this group when you consider all factors, as I've outlined.

Brown and Gray were more proven and had performed better than the 2020 group.

Not really. It's "better" because you want it be. The objective numbers simply don't support that.

Gray was a frosh in '12. He ran for 700 yds and 3 TDs. He totaled 852 yds and 4 TDs
Brown was a soph. Going into '13 he had rush for under 1100 yds & 9 TDs. He had totaled under 1200 yds & 10 TDs

The QB converted to RB just weeks before the season, as a frosh, ran for 649 yds & 7 TDs. He totaled 807 yds & 8 TDs
Ingram has 2 years under his belt. He's rushed for 1500+ yds & 10 TDs. He's totaled nearly 2000 yds & 15 TDs.

With all due respect, your hard-headed insistence is, well, at this point beyond humorous. And with all due respect, the notion that EITHER Brown or Gray were more proven than Ingram, is well, sorta ignorant.

 

[Ketchum]

LOL. Ok then
The '19 group, including a QB converted to RB just weeks before the season combined for 1900 yds total offense and 18 TDs.
Are we ignoring Peterson played damn near FIFTEEN years ago?
And how many of the '12 backs put together more than 2-3 quality performances together.

Again, overcooking '12. At the end of the day, the TRIO from '12 BARELY outotaled the duo (including a guy converted to RB just weeks before the season) and were a full yd worse in YPC. What part of overcooking '12 are you not getting.

I'm not overcooking, either.

I'm just saying that one ]better than ok group is better than last year's also just ok group and more inconsistent group.

Gray's solid consistency and the return to health of Brown are my reasons. Everyone was really high on that group back then... only knowing the history of them has dampened that really,.

But, it's still a reality.

I'd offer that I understand why you'd potentially flip them. I'm just explaining why I did.

 

[Ketchum]

Not that I usually put any weight into Phil Steele, but just for giggles, he had Gray listed as third team All-Big 12 for 2013 in the pre-season, while Brown was fourth-team.

Damien Williams, Lache Seastrunk, John Hubert and James Sims were listed above them.

Anyone know how he ranks the backs in the conference this year?

 

[TD TX TD VY]

a. I said 2,000 yards of offense and 25 touchdowns

Just shy of 2,000 yards of total offense and 25 touchdowns.

b. The numbers from a year ago are part of a Big12 wide inflation of running game stats. I think Kennedy Brooks has a higher YPC than Adrian Peterson by a full yard.

Is he a full yard per carry better than Peterson?

c. Neither back returning from last season put more than two or three quality performances in a row together. From week to week, you didn't know if Ingram was going to go for 80+ or get limited to less than 10 yards.

The 2012 guys was consistently pretty good, and never better than that, but they were consistently pretty good and productive.

Ingram and Johnson were not.

Numbers and accolades aside, and just focusing on the eyeball test of "who is the more talented RB", I can't believe most would take the 2013 group over this one.

I think most would feel like we're in good hands with any of the current three getting a majority of carries. Can you say that about Bergeron in 2013?

 

[TD TX TD VY]

And the guys in '12 did?
Gray's total rushing gamelog - 9, 50, 60, 68, 87, 16, 56, 111, 106. 74, 47, 29, 18
Brown - 105, 5, 128, 7, 31, 40, 8
Bergeron - 110, 49, 48, 48, 45, 1, 117, 32, 14, 86, 12, 3, 2.

Again, you're greatly overcooking that group.

Yeah, 5 games under 50 yards for the bell cow JGray doesn't scream "consistently solid" to me.

 

[Ketchum]

Numbers and accolades aside, and just focusing on the eyeball test of "who is the more talented RB", I can't believe most would take the 2013 group over this one.

I think most would feel like we're in good hands with any of the current three getting a majority of carries. Can you say that about Bergeron in 2013?

I think this is a case of you choosing the devil you don't know vs. the devil you know all about.

 

[Ketchum]

Yeah, 5 games under 50 yards for the bell cow JGray doesn't scream "consistently solid" to me.

Only two games less than 47.

That's called a month for Ingram and Johnson last year, no?

 

[TD TX TD VY]

I think this is a case of you choosing the devil you don't know vs. the devil you know all about.

I won't deny there are multiple biases at work. But I'm honestly trying to put myself back in August 2013 and comparing to now. That's my final word on this.

 

[TD TX TD VY]

Only two games less than 47.

That's called a month for Ingram and Johnson last year, no?

Sure but I'm not defending their consistency. That's one of the last words I'd use to describe Ingram, in particular. I just wouldn't say the 2012 guys were consistent, either.

 

[RLong68]

Only two games less than 47.

That's called a month for Ingram and Johnson last year, no?

Actually 5. I had Gray's log wrong. It's actually worse
9
30
50
68
87
16
56
111
106
74
47
29
18

RoJo's last season
26
32
59
30
121
95
46
9
37
18
22
105
49

So they had the same number of 100+ games. Roschon's 3rd highest (95) was better than Gray's (97). Roschon had an appreciably higher YPC and 3 more TDs.

 

[RLong68]

I think this is a case of you choosing the devil you don't know vs. the devil you know all about.

That might make more sense if that were somewhat based on the reality of what is known and unknown. I think I've shown you are stretching greatly what you think you know and what you think you don't know. Because it's not based on objective data.

 

[Touchstone]

Time has to heal all wounds, right?

I know your comment was rhetorical but no, some things are not forgiveable.

 

[Ketchum]

I won't deny there are multiple biases at work. But I'm honestly trying to put myself back in August 2013 and comparing to now. That's my final word on this.

fair enough. It's a small difference, either way.

 

[Ketchum]

Actually 5. I had Gray's log wrong. It's actually worse
9
30
50
68
87
16
56
111
106
74
47
29
18

RoJo's last season
26
32
59
30
121
95
46
9
37
18
22
105
49

So they had the same number of 100+ games. Roschon's 3rd highest (95) was better than Gray's (97). Roschon had an appreciably higher YPC and 3 more TDs.

and yet the coaches didn't trust him.

At least Mack and his staff trusted Gray, even if perhaps wrongly so to a degree

 

[Ketchum]

I know your comment was rhetorical but no, some things are not forgiveable.

But, is this one of those things?

 

[Ketchum]

That might make more sense if that were somewhat based on the reality of what is known and unknown. I think I've shown you are stretching greatly what you think you know and what you think you don't know. Because it's not based on objective data.

lol. k.

 

[Ketchum]

Actually 5. I had Gray's log wrong. It's actually worse
9
30
50
68
87
16
56
111
106
74
47
29
18

RoJo's last season
26
32
59
30
121
95
46
9
37
18
22
105
49

So they had the same number of 100+ games. Roschon's 3rd highest (95) was better than Gray's (97). Roschon had an appreciably higher YPC and 3 more TDs.

a. I think you meant 87 for Gray.

Let's eliminate the 100 yard games and just look at the next 8 best performances.

1. Roschon 95
2. Gray 87
3. Gray 74
4. Gray 74
5. Gray 68
6. Roschon 59
7. Gray 56
8. Gray 50

The numbers are screaming at you. I can't make you hear them.

b. If you're going to mention touchdowns, you have to mention that Bergeron's numbers have to get merged into Gray's numbers the way none of the current backs had to worry about touchdown snipers.

 

[Ketchum]

Also, Brown was banged up and missed 5 games with injury in 2012, but we're talking about a five-star back that is still playing in the NFL and did the following as a freshman:

named second-team Freshman All-America by Yahoo! Sports … named the Big 12 Newcomer of the Year (AP, Houston Chronicle, San Antonio Express-News, Fort Worth Star-Telegram) and the Big 12 Offensive Newcomer of the Year (Kansas City Star)

Expectations were still very high for both.

 

[Juarez Your Problem]

I’m loving the football discussion.

Moar plz.

 

[wfoot]

The thing that got Mack fired was his teams were trending worse with little fire power due to his incredible inability to recruit the talented QBs who would have played at Texas. This while Briles was putting teams on the field that were fired up to play to the max on every snap. Mack let himself down, later admitted it. He never recovered from the NC game loss while still at Texas. Me neither.

 

[wfoot]

a. He put Texas basketball on the map with entertaining play. Full stop.

b. Thomas was better than you're making him out to be. Three-year starter and twice was named honorable mention all-conference by the league's coaches.

Which cornerbacks on the current roster earned all-conference honors of any kind?

c. Bijan gets an edge over Malcolm by a smidge, but the other current backs were not more highly thought of in real time than the other backs that existed, especially Gray coming off of his best season and pre-injuries.

d. I love how you think I'm giving OU too much credit. How many Big 12 titles in a row have they won?

I think you give Ou too much credit always, but especially this year. We should beat them this year. We have better players. But you seem to put them on a pedestal when our games with them have been very close and competitive. Last year Sam threw three passes that hit receivers in the hands, any one of which would have been a TD or very close. If play makers had made plays we would have won that game. Two years before we lost by a TD when Kris Boyd failed to either catch or deflect a ball that was thrown right to him that, instead, went for a TD. These games were close, competitive, and turned, not on dominance by Ou, but a couple of plays that went their way. They are not unbeatable as shown by their pathetic performance against LSU.

It's not that I don't understand that they have had the upper hand during the last few years when Texas football has been at an all time low. It is that I don't expect us to stay at our lowest point continually.

 

[jspirohorn]

Wide Receivers

1. 2020: junior Brennan Eagles/senior Tarik Black/sophomore Jake Smith/redshirt freshman Jordan Whittington (5 points)
2. 2013: senior Mike Davis/junior Jaxon Shipley/sophomore Kendall Sanders/sophomore Marcus Johnson (4 points)
​

Confirmation bias IMO. You might want the 2020 team on top too badly. Mike Davis had 2nd team All Big 12 honors coming into 2013 and Jaxon Shipley had shown himself dependable. Brennan Eagles has shown athleticism and glimmers but poor consistency and has red flags entering the year.

Tight Ends

1.2020: senior Cade Brewer/sophomore Jared Wiley/sophomore Malcolm Epps (5 points)
2. 2013: junior Greg Daniels/junior Geoff Swaim (4 points)
3. 2015: junior Caleb Bluiett/sophomore Andrew Beck (3 points)
4. 2010: sophomore Barrett Matthews/senior Greg Smith (2 points)
5. 2017: junior Garrett Gray/freshman Cade Brewer (1 point)​

A digression but one day this list will be an obscure drinking game for Longhorn fans.
QUOTE="Ketchum, post: 14421765, member: 20"]
Cornerbacks​

2010: junior Aaron Williams/senior Chykie Brown/senior Curtis Brown (5 points)[/QUOTE] How is possible this group underperformed so badly?​

 

[jah4550]

Re: Wide receivers, I would move the 3 group up to 2.
Re: Penders - same reaction
Re: Defense being middle of the road, it will need to be better than that for Anwar to be wrong about his 8-2 prediction. But from some of the other postings, I thought our defense was going to be pretty solid this year and better than middle of the road.

 

[jah4550]

It's amazing that he did all that he did while never telling anyone in the last few years. That's a lot of heart and want-to.

I have loved all of this movies and how big he was on screen. Now that we know what he was going through as he filmed them, I can't help but have a very deep respect and admiration for the man. He is an inspiration to every one and helped show some of the goodness of this world.

 

[RLong68]

lol. k.

Lol. K.

 

[RLong68]

a. I think you meant 87 for Gray.

Let's eliminate the 100 yard games and just look at the next 8 best performances.

1. Roschon 95
2. Gray 87
3. Gray 74
4. Gray 74
5. Gray 68
6. Roschon 59
7. Gray 56
8. Gray 50

The numbers are screaming at you. I can't make you hear them.

b. If you're going to mention touchdowns, you have to mention that Bergeron's numbers have to get merged into Gray's numbers the way none of the current backs had to worry about touchdown snipers.

LOL. Yes, the numbers are screaming at me. the '12 group with 3 guys totaled 2k yds & 25 TDs. The '19 guys with 2 guys totaled less than 100 fewer yds, and 18 TDs. And now it's adding a 5-star RB. They are screaming. Pretty sure you aren't listening.
You're sorta spiraling out of control now with all sorts of ifs, and butts.