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Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (What the UT QB situation really looks like...)

Colt was very average for much of his senior year, especially against good competition. His rating actually properly shows how far he dipped following an out of this world junior season.

Oh my God, Ketch??? So now you're calling Colt's senior year average? He almost wins us a NC and on a team (mind you) that didn't have a particularly good Oline? Colt was the most valuable player in the country IMO that year. You take him off of Texas and they are a 7 or 8 win team at best that year. First you're judging Shane on his true freshman 18 year old (all season long) (in other words a HS QB) year where he shouldn't have had to play all year. You're calling his year average when in reality he was anything but average as a true freshman.

I'm not sure if you're just trolling to keep us all busy arguing, but you are being way too hard on the judgement of Shane (and now Colt's senior year!).
 
On your "He's back" caption on Jordan. Unless I've missed something he was never gone. He didn't win as many tournaments last year as the year before but take a look at his stats. IMO he was exhausted after his world tour swing last year and he just never showed the fire like the prior year and I'm not alone with that opinion. Check his number of top 10 finishes and he won 2 tournaments.
 
Oh my God, Ketch??? So now you're calling Colt's senior year average? He almost wins us a NC and on a team (mind you) that didn't have a particularly good Oline? Colt was the most valuable player in the country IMO that year. You take him off of Texas and they are a 7 or 8 win team at best that year. First you're judging Shane on his true freshman 18 year old (all season long) (in other words a HS QB) year where he shouldn't have had to play all year. You're calling his year average when in reality he was anything but average as a true freshman.

I'm not sure if you're just trolling to keep us all busy arguing, but you are being way too hard on the judgement of Shane (and now Colt's senior year!).
Do me a favor... post Colt's stat lines from 2009 against Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Nebraska and Texas Tech.

Also, post his best game that season against a good team.
 
On your "He's back" caption on Jordan. Unless I've missed something he was never gone. He didn't win as many tournaments last year as the year before but take a look at his stats. IMO he was exhausted after his world tour swing last year and he just never showed the fire like the prior year and I'm not alone with that opinion. Check his number of top 10 finishes and he won 2 tournaments.
He's back to being possibly the best golfer in the world. That's the standard, no? Not normal mortals.
 
Yeah, you're going to have to forgive me if I just bounce from conversation with you on this.

If you can't so much as do me the solid of backing up your claims with evidence when called to do so in favor of perceived injustices that are clearly confirmation biased based, I'm just wasting my time.
it's fine if you wanna bounce because you are doing the same thing you are accusing me of. you pick and choose what you want to address. even if i went back and posted all of your posts that confirm you are trying to stir qb controversy and regardless of several members on the board saying the same, you won't own it. you'll continue to make this into the new "simms vs applewhite" even though sam hasn't taken a single snap of college football. the only thing i really need, even though you said more, is that you called shane's season last year "very average" and proceeded to pick and choose stats to fit that narrative. i'll do us both a favor and bow out from this topic as well because you aren't gonna convince me and i'm not going to convince you.
 
it's fine if you wanna bounce because you are doing the same thing you are accusing me of. you pick and choose what you want to address. even if i went back and posted all of your posts that confirm you are trying to stir qb controversy and regardless of several members on the board saying the same, you won't own it. you'll continue to make this into the new "simms vs applewhite" even though sam hasn't taken a single snap of college football. the only thing i really need, even though you said more, is that you called shane's season last year "very average" and proceeded to pick and choose stats to fit that narrative. i'll do us both a favor and bow out from this topic as well because you aren't gonna convince me and i'm not going to convince you.
You still won't do it, huh? You are literally just making stuff up in your head.

Have a good rest of the day.
 
why cut it to a 10 game sample size? both kids played 12 games in their perspective seasons. you did that for the same reason you did it in the war room discussion. to make their ratings closer. tyrone played in 12 games in that 2014 season and ended it with a rating of 116.5. shane played in 12 games last season and ended it with a rating of 136. that rating put him above jt barrett, davis webb, and trevor mcknight. trevor mcknight is the only one of those 3 that can be referred to as "pretty average". trevor knight was also a senior and shane was a true freshman. he played well enough to be named honorable mention big 12 offensive freshman of the year and to be honored at quarterback on ESPN.com's all-big 12 underclassmen team. he completed 236-of-391 (60.4%) of his passes through the first 12 games of his career for a UT freshmen-record 2,958 passing yards and 21 passing touchdowns beating out redshirt freshman colt mccoy.. who definitely wasn't average.

This is spot on Ketch. Sorry, but he's totally correct on this post. Shane has been sorely undervalued for what he did last season as an 18 year old true freshman. The kid should have been a senior in High school. Let that sink in...
 
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This is spot on Ketch. Sorry, but he's totally correct on this post. Shane has been sorely undervalued for what he did last season as an 18 year old true freshman. The kid should have been a senior in High school. Let that sink in...
feel free to quote any section of my column that you deem needing to be disputed, and dispute it.
 
Don't get lost in the stats. Buechele has all the tools, go back and watch the games.
When you say don't get lost in the stats, do you mean don't get lost in the facts?

I've never said he doesn't have the tools.
 
Buechele clearly didn't play as well down the stretch (FINAL 10 GAMES) as he did at the start of the year (FIRST TWO GAMES). I wonder why?

a. FIFY

b. Numerous reasons. Probably 50 of them.
 
Yea we have. We seen him play against D1 talent. He was pretty damn good in the ND Game. How did Sam do in his First Collegial start last year? don't worry ill wait.
How did Shane do in his first college start against Kansas? Or his 12th?

Literally, go back and read the section again, if you've even read it.

You can feel free to quote any section that needs disputing.
 
How did Shane do in his first college start against Kansas? Or his 12th?

Literally, go back and read the section again, if you've even read it.

You can feel free to quote any section that needs disputing.
I see you couldn't answer the question. My point exactly. To answers yours against Kansas that's easy. Shit happens. Not to mention we both know damn well Shane was playing hurt after the Cal game.
 
When you say don't get lost in the stats, do you mean don't get lost in the facts?

I've never said he doesn't have the tools.

No I'm saying anyone can find certain numbers to fit their own point. Shane played well considering he was a freshman. We agree that he has all the tools. I think he projects well and will take the next step. Was he great? No but he definitely showed something to work with going forward. Saying you really didnt see much from him and that he was pretty average is too critical IMO.
 
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I see you couldn't answer the question. My point exactly. To answers yours against Kansas that's easy. Shit happens. Not to mention we both know damn well Shane was playing hurt after the Cal game.

This is my answer. Feel free to quote any section from it and dispute it.

**********

The number I selected that becomes a critical point in this discussion is 140.0.

Last season, an efficiency rating of 140.0 would have ranked 41st in the nation, while a 150.0 rating would have ranked 23rd, a 160.0 rating would have ranked 10th and a 170.0 rating would have ranked just outside the top five. While the numbers can change from year to year, these numbers should provide a very basic snapshot of what represents pretty good vs. elite at the quarterback position. In my mind, a 140.0 rating in the modern age of college football offense represents approximately the minimum bar of success for slightly above average quarterback play in the passing game.

Since 2010, here’s a look at both UT's primary starting quarterback rating and the overall team quarterback rating, along with the team’s final record.

2016: 136.0/134.4 (5-7)
2015: 126.1/120.5 (5-7)
2014: 116.5/116.2 (6-7)
2013: 109.3/117-7 (8-5)
2012: 153.3/154.4 (9-4)
2011: 131.9/122.1 (8-5)
2010: 111.0/111.2 (5-7)

In the last seven years, only the 2012 version of David Ash has been able to clear the 140.0 bar for an entire season, which also just happens to be the only nine-win season during this time span for the Texas program.

What’s interesting about this note is that it goes hand in hand with the supporting data from 2002-2016, which shows that in the nine seasons in which the Longhorns won nine or more games, the quarterback play posted a 140+ rating in seven of them. The two outliers?

2007: (139.2) Colt McCoy’s worst season was just an eyelash below the mark in what was a very uneven season.

2004: (128.4) Vince Young’s superhuman running skills more than overcompensated for his passing deficiencies.

Although it has taken me awhile to get there, I hope I’ve created a picture that safely paints the 140.0 rating as a fairly safe data point that establishes a minimum bar for success in the modern passing game inside college football, at least as it relates to the Texas program. If anyone out there feel like I’ve been unfair in choosing this admittedly arbitrary number as a baseline for success… my apologies (I tried).


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Chuck Carlton

✔@ChuckCarltonDMN



Tom Herman on QB signee Sam Ehlinger: "Is he going to push Shane [Buechele]? I hope so." Reiterates that there are no starters in his mind

2:34 PM - 1 Feb 2017



As we bring the discussion forward to the upcoming 2017 season, the Longhorns return second-year sophomore starter Shane Buechele, who just finished his freshman season with a 136.0 rating, which on the surface seems to indicate that he’s on the cusp of giving the Longhorns enough at the quarterback position to lead the team into the nine-win range with its quarterback play.

Yet, if you dig a little deeper, you’ll find that the quarterback position is probably more of a question mark than peripheral numbers suggest. It’s possible that Buechele was so good in his first two starts against Notre Dame (169.7 game rating) and UTEP (206.3 game rating!) that we just didn’t pay enough attention to the fact that the next 10 games were rarely like the first two.

Some Buechele numbers from the final 10 games of last season…

* Buechele only posted a 140.0 game rating in three of his final 10 games (146.0 vs Iowa State, 176.0 at Kansas State and 195.4 vs. Baylor), which means that Buechele only cleared the 140.0 rating in five of 12 games, posting a 4-1 record in those five games.

* While he posted a 136.0 rating for the entire season, Buechele posted a 127.8 rating in the final 10 games of the season, which is lower than the rating Tyrone Swoopes posted in the first 11 games of the 2014 season.

* Buechele completed only 58.6 completion percentage and a 15/10 touchdown-to-interception ratio.

If you’re thinking that I’m trying to take a shot at Buechele by pointing these facts out, you’re sorely mistaken. As I’ve said repeatedly, I think he has all-Big 12 and championship upside. On top of that, I’ve never heard anyone say a bad thing about the young man and I ranked him as the No.10 prospect in the state in my 2016 rankings.

Considering how stagnant business gets when the program goes through a seven-season rut, I’d be borderline close to selling my soul to the sports gods if it meant Buechele led Texas to the type of promised land that gets a jersey number retired.

No, the point of this entire section is to point out that while Buechele absolutely represented improvement as a true freshman against almost everything Texas had at the position in the last seven years, there are still very real steps that he needs to take before we can safely call Buechele an above-average starting quarterback at this level.

First and foremost, it’s the game-in and game-out consistency that Buechele needs to improve on. It’s not a matter of ability because he displayed that at an above-average level in five games last season, which witnessed Texas win four of them. However, he can’t be a box of chocolates, going from good to bad in yo-yo fashion over a 12-game season.

If you told me right now that Buechele won't post a single 180 game-rating this season, but never goes under a 140 game-rating, I’d suggest that the Longhorns will be very close to nine wins this season. Hell, they won 80-percent of the games in which he went beyond 140 on a 5-7 team.

What’s funny is that I’ve been discussing the talent levels/upside between Buechele and true freshman Sam Ehlinger in the last week and wondering how the staff’s view of short-and long-term projections might impact snap distribution this season, but the better question might involve which quarterback can most consistently play at a 140.0+ level. You can beat Iowa State by three touchdowns with 146.0 play, but you can’t beat TCU if the yo-yo drops down to 82.9.
 
Shane played well considering he was a freshman.

This is the point of disagreement. I haven't seen tangible evidence in this. I feel like I've displayed a lot of evidence showing proof of this point.
 
Congrats, when do you start your new job?
giphy.gif
 
a. I expect more from you than half a picture.

Rushing numbers

Buechele - 151 yards and two touchdowns
Hurts - 954 yards and 13 touchdowns.

Meanwhile, he topped the 140+ mark in nearly twice as many games as Buechele, including with half of them occurring against teams with winning records.

So, just for the record, Hurts' passing numbers were better than Buechele's in every aspect and he added a game-breaking run threat and he won games against good teams.

b. I think Buechele will be ok as well.
Too lazy to look it up, who did you rank higher in your LSR 100?
 
I see you couldn't answer the question. My point exactly. To answers yours against Kansas that's easy. Shit happens. Not to mention we both know damn well Shane was playing hurt after the Cal game.
he got a hit helment to helment during the kansas game and went to the locker room with a neck injury.. just some more pesky facts.
 
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This is my answer. Feel free to quote any section from it and dispute it.

**********

The number I selected that becomes a critical point in this discussion is 140.0.

Last season, an efficiency rating of 140.0 would have ranked 41st in the nation, while a 150.0 rating would have ranked 23rd, a 160.0 rating would have ranked 10th and a 170.0 rating would have ranked just outside the top five. While the numbers can change from year to year, these numbers should provide a very basic snapshot of what represents pretty good vs. elite at the quarterback position. In my mind, a 140.0 rating in the modern age of college football offense represents approximately the minimum bar of success for slightly above average quarterback play in the passing game.

Since 2010, here’s a look at both UT's primary starting quarterback rating and the overall team quarterback rating, along with the team’s final record.

2016: 136.0/134.4 (5-7)
2015: 126.1/120.5 (5-7)
2014: 116.5/116.2 (6-7)
2013: 109.3/117-7 (8-5)
2012: 153.3/154.4 (9-4)
2011: 131.9/122.1 (8-5)
2010: 111.0/111.2 (5-7)

In the last seven years, only the 2012 version of David Ash has been able to clear the 140.0 bar for an entire season, which also just happens to be the only nine-win season during this time span for the Texas program.

What’s interesting about this note is that it goes hand in hand with the supporting data from 2002-2016, which shows that in the nine seasons in which the Longhorns won nine or more games, the quarterback play posted a 140+ rating in seven of them. The two outliers?

2007: (139.2) Colt McCoy’s worst season was just an eyelash below the mark in what was a very uneven season.

2004: (128.4) Vince Young’s superhuman running skills more than overcompensated for his passing deficiencies.

Although it has taken me awhile to get there, I hope I’ve created a picture that safely paints the 140.0 rating as a fairly safe data point that establishes a minimum bar for success in the modern passing game inside college football, at least as it relates to the Texas program. If anyone out there feel like I’ve been unfair in choosing this admittedly arbitrary number as a baseline for success… my apologies (I tried).


Follow
Chuck Carlton

✔@ChuckCarltonDMN



Tom Herman on QB signee Sam Ehlinger: "Is he going to push Shane [Buechele]? I hope so." Reiterates that there are no starters in his mind

2:34 PM - 1 Feb 2017



As we bring the discussion forward to the upcoming 2017 season, the Longhorns return second-year sophomore starter Shane Buechele, who just finished his freshman season with a 136.0 rating, which on the surface seems to indicate that he’s on the cusp of giving the Longhorns enough at the quarterback position to lead the team into the nine-win range with its quarterback play.

Yet, if you dig a little deeper, you’ll find that the quarterback position is probably more of a question mark than peripheral numbers suggest. It’s possible that Buechele was so good in his first two starts against Notre Dame (169.7 game rating) and UTEP (206.3 game rating!) that we just didn’t pay enough attention to the fact that the next 10 games were rarely like the first two.

Some Buechele numbers from the final 10 games of last season…

* Buechele only posted a 140.0 game rating in three of his final 10 games (146.0 vs Iowa State, 176.0 at Kansas State and 195.4 vs. Baylor), which means that Buechele only cleared the 140.0 rating in five of 12 games, posting a 4-1 record in those five games.

* While he posted a 136.0 rating for the entire season, Buechele posted a 127.8 rating in the final 10 games of the season, which is lower than the rating Tyrone Swoopes posted in the first 11 games of the 2014 season.

* Buechele completed only 58.6 completion percentage and a 15/10 touchdown-to-interception ratio.

If you’re thinking that I’m trying to take a shot at Buechele by pointing these facts out, you’re sorely mistaken. As I’ve said repeatedly, I think he has all-Big 12 and championship upside. On top of that, I’ve never heard anyone say a bad thing about the young man and I ranked him as the No.10 prospect in the state in my 2016 rankings.

Considering how stagnant business gets when the program goes through a seven-season rut, I’d be borderline close to selling my soul to the sports gods if it meant Buechele led Texas to the type of promised land that gets a jersey number retired.

No, the point of this entire section is to point out that while Buechele absolutely represented improvement as a true freshman against almost everything Texas had at the position in the last seven years, there are still very real steps that he needs to take before we can safely call Buechele an above-average starting quarterback at this level.

First and foremost, it’s the game-in and game-out consistency that Buechele needs to improve on. It’s not a matter of ability because he displayed that at an above-average level in five games last season, which witnessed Texas win four of them. However, he can’t be a box of chocolates, going from good to bad in yo-yo fashion over a 12-game season.

If you told me right now that Buechele won't post a single 180 game-rating this season, but never goes under a 140 game-rating, I’d suggest that the Longhorns will be very close to nine wins this season. Hell, they won 80-percent of the games in which he went beyond 140 on a 5-7 team.

What’s funny is that I’ve been discussing the talent levels/upside between Buechele and true freshman Sam Ehlinger in the last week and wondering how the staff’s view of short-and long-term projections might impact snap distribution this season, but the better question might involve which quarterback can most consistently play at a 140.0+ level. You can beat Iowa State by three touchdowns with 146.0 play, but you can’t beat TCU if the yo-yo drops down to 82.9.

That's not a answer that's called a quote/ Copy and paste but its all good you are proving my point. Another question for sense you clearly don't have answer my first one. What new plays were added to the offense by the Kansas game? Or 12th game? Any new wrinkles? Exclude the run Forman run element they added and you have nothing. It didn't take rocket science to figure out how to stop this middle school offense by taking away the deep ball and Shane never had a chance at that point. Come on ketch be better.
 
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he got a hit helment to helment during the kansas game and went to the locker room with a neck injury.. just some more pesky facts.
The correct answer is 17 of 26 for 165 yards, one touchdown and three interceptions.

Second lowest game efficiency score of the season.

Damn those pesky facts.
 
This is the point of disagreement. I haven't seen tangible evidence in this. I feel like I've displayed a lot of evidence showing proof of this point.


The tangible evidence is his film. Again a some of the incompletions were off target throws but some were also drops and throw aways. Look at the amount of throws he connected on and the big plays. He just needs more mass and consistency. Beuchele has accuracy and when I say "well" I mean considering he had us in position to win close games straight out of high school. How many games were within a touchdown?
 
That's not a answer that's called a quote/ Copy and paste but its all good you are proving my point. Another question for sense you clearly don't have answer my first one. What new plays were added to the offense by the Kansas game? Or 12th game? Any new wrinkles? Exclude the run Forman run element they added and you have nothing. It didn't take rocket science to figure out how to stop this middle school offense by taking away the deep ball and Shane never had a chance at that point. Come on ketch be better.
I can't help it if you refuse to engage in conversation that requires you back up your claims with actual evidence from the article that you are making claims against.
 
The tangible evidence is his film. Again a some of the incompletions were off target throws but some were also drops and throw aways. Look at the amount of throws he connected on and the big plays. He just needs more mass and consistency. Beuchele has accuracy and when I say "well" I mean considering he had us in position to win close games straight out of high school. How many games were within a touchdown?
What was the best part of my section on the quarterback discussion. What was the worst?
 
What was the best part of my section on the quarterback discussion. What was the worst?

what? was this meant for me? i really do enjoy listening to your podcast, we just dont agree. I think you should consider Buechele's first two games just like the rest. The throws weren't that much different.
 
I don't remember a supposed #1 receiver having so many drops (Burt) in recent memory. Who was Ash's #1? Davis/Shipley? They were much more reliable. Colt had Nate Jones/Quan, same story there.
Colt had a guy named Jordan too, he had pretty good hands.
 
Freshman have only been allowed to play "Varsity" football since 1968. That being said it's still a small number.

Actually Texas had a separate freshman team until 1972, when all D1 freshmen first became eligible to play on varsity as true freshmen.

Edit...all sports but football and basketball allowed freshmen to play in '68. Football and basketball weren't allowed till '72.
 
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