OT: Orlando police

[oldhorn2]

Clob....this isnt just the "no-fly" list. A gun shop owner in Orlando had called the FBI and reported that the shooter was trying to buy large, large amounts of ammunition, body armor and an assault rifle. He would not sell to the guy. Now this could be said to be just a case where the info was placed in the "low priority file"...BUT THIS VERY GUY HAD BEEN INTERVIED BY THE FBI TWICE in the past for suspicious activity. Now I bet that any high school civics class might have been able to put that together, but not the God almighty FBI.

Did you know that when the Branch Dividian standoff in Waco started the sherriff in Waco asked the FBI why he wasnt informed the feds wanted the guy?...He was told they didnt want to let him get "wind" of the op. He said too bad, all you had to do was tell me to pick him up . He said" the guy walked the streets of Waco every day, I could have gotten him any time"....idiots!

 

[clob94]

We are finding out today that another fellow worshiper AT HIS MOSQUE, called the FBI and informed on him................ said he was talking about all this extremist propaganda videos he was watching.... CLOWN SHOW!

 

[clob94]

Good, that's very interesting.

How many tier 1 guys are we talking about?

That's classified bro. None of us civilians really know. You'd have to be a GS 15 (as a civilian) with the highest clearance and a "need to know" and even then, you're likely not to know.

But because they are the best of the best of the best of the best........there aren't that many-- comparatively speaking.

 

[Belldozer1]

We just need common sense here my friends.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/78/12/70/7812702cb62b52a2bafa9976bf41cde1.jpg

 

[clob94]

Bell, I was feeling a little uncertain this morning so just to be safe, I went into the back of my walk in closet, opened up the door and made sure my guns hadn't been up to no good. All were safe and accounted for.

 

[Belldozer1]

I noticed a few misspelled words in a letter I was typing up earlier, damn keyboard's fault, of course.

 

[elcapitan009]

Nobody is taking your guns away. Jesus Christ stop the fkn whining already. They have only talked about taking away military-grade weapons from untrained civilian hands. In fact, they've only talked about not selling military-grade weapons to anybody on the no-fly/watch list. If it doesn't make sense to you, there's no point in engaging with you.

"It's a slippery slope. If we allow the military guns to be taken away, then what's to stop them from taking our hunting rifles and handguns and home defense shotguns?"

What's to stop them from taking them away now you Chicken Littles? You're mostly the same ones claiming "Obama has ruined this country." Yet here we are. It's not the end of the US and he's in his last year. The hyperbolic statements due to polarization are astounding.

"You can be put on a watch list and not know it until you try to fly/buy a firearm"

Yeah, I agree. Unfortunately, that's kind of the point, right? To watch and see if someone is dangerous or could possibly lead you to other/more dangerous people. This guy wasn't really a terrorist or connected to anyone. He was a loner with mental issues. The FBI screwed up because they dropped it when they realized this.

 

[Belldozer1]

Nobody is taking your guns away. Jesus Christ stop the fkn whining already. They have only talked about taking away military-grade weapons from untrained civilian hands. In fact, they've only talked about not selling military-grade weapons to anybody on the no-fly/watch list. If it doesn't make sense to you, there's no point in engaging with you.

"It's a slippery slope. If we allow the military guns to be taken away, then what's to stop them from taking our hunting rifles and handguns and home defense shotguns?"

What's to stop them from taking them away now you Chicken Littles? You're mostly the same ones claiming "Obama has ruined this country." Yet here we are. It's not the end of the US and he's in his last year. The hyperbolic statements due to polarization are astounding.

"You can be put on a watch list and not know it until you try to fly/buy a firearm"

Yeah, I agree. Unfortunately, that's kind of the point, right? To watch and see if someone is dangerous or could possibly lead you to other/more dangerous people. This guy wasn't really a terrorist or connected to anyone. He was a loner with mental issues. The FBI screwed up because they dropped it when they realized this.

Define military grade weapons. Do NOT. List AR 15 as military grade weapon. Also, you have your head in the sand if you believe this admin has the best interest of the US at heart. Your 3rd and 5th paragraphs are alarmingly ridiculous. Yep that 911 call wasn't implicating in the least? Are you serious Clark?

 

[bubba2023]

I don't own an AR15 nor ever plan on owning one the only thing military-grade about it are it's looks.

 

[Belldozer1]

I don't own an AR15 nor ever plan on owning one the only thing military-grade about it are it's looks.

Bubba I don't either. I have hand guns and shotguns and 2 hunting rifles. The media is misrepresenting what military grade weapons are. I may never have an AR15 either but damn people don't have to deliberately lie just to fit their agenda.

 

[bubba2023]

The reason why AR15s are so prevalent in these tragedies is because it's the most popular rifle in the country, and a lot it's popularity is just military aesthetics not military functionality. That's the trend with rifles these days they make them look like they right off the battlefield. They could package the same functionality in a traditional hunting rifle look, but no one would buy it. Everyone wants call of duty looking guns.

 

[clob94]

Honestly Bubba, I think that might be part of it-- and to address elcapitan---- yes, I'm aware they won't be taking sh!t away from citizens because that cat is already out if the bag and going backward to grab 350 million guns would lead to deaths of government employees and private citizens on a cataclysmic level. So we 100% agree on that.

BUT, going forward, if the "law enforcement agencies" of this country want the power to "list people", they should AT LEAST be compelled to get it right. There should be punishment toward THEM if the get it wrong. If a state falsely imprisoned you, you're allowed to sue them in civil court, yes? Well, if the Fed falsely, or mistakenly, puts you on this "list" they should be fined a huge sum of money, given to the victim, in order to compell them to get it right every time. Am I expecting too much out of the greatest free civilization in history? I am compelled to get my taxes right the first time or face fines and penalties and interest, am I not? Then I don't see the flaw in thinking the government should be held to the same standard.

I will HAPPILY take any test they have to prove that I'm no threat of being a bad guy--- I pretty much already have. CC holder, I went through TSA precheck screening (as I'm sure many of you have), and I've never bought a gun without a back ground check . So bring on the list, assuming there's consequences if ANY administration gets it wrong. But you and I know they won't agree to something that penalizes THEM if THEY screw up.

Back to Bubba's comment, I know why I bought mine Bubba. I love shooting me some hogs at the ranch. And if I catch a litter of them around one of the ponds, it's easier for me to put several of them down in short order-- rather than using my bolt action. It's lightweight, compact, extremely accurate, I can customize it, attach or detach sights according to the situation (up close shooting vs distance) and even change out calibers, bolts and barrels if I so desire. It's an adult erector set. Now, I get it-- hogs could just as easily be humans..... and since elcapitan is right-- and there's no way they can ever get the genie back in the bottle, the best way for the hogs to insure that I quit wiping them out is arm the hogs. I'd think twice about it, metaphorically speaking, if they were shooting back! I kid, I kid.

In all seriousness, I just think this is something we as a society are just going yo have to get used to. Most of you remember back in the 80s when Israel was having bus bombs go off almost daily. It was just daily, "and another bomb rocks Tel Aviv.....etc etc". As a kid I thought that was the worst place on earth. But the Jewish community there just adapted and made the best of it. I think we are in the same boat- so to speak

 

[bubba2023]

I should have qualified my statement. It is the perfect gun for hogs, so it's not all about aesthetics, but I don't think that's the majority of ar 15 owners.

 

[ASURAM2010]

I am with clob and many others here. I personally own two 9MM handguns, a 12 gauge shotgun (that looks military-ish), a 20 gauge shotgun, a .223 hunting rifle, and a 5.56 AR15 that looks less military-ish than my shotgun. Of all of those guns, if I wanted to do harm to people, the AR15 would be the last one chosen. I can get off almost the same amount of rounds in the same amount of time with my handguns that I can with the AR. I could do a lot more harm to people or whatever I am shooting with a 12 gauge shotgun. The weapon of choice is not the problem with these situations. McVeigh used fertilizer, Boston Marathon guys used pressure cookers, 9/11 guys used plastic boxcutters and planes. If someone really wants to do harm to people they will find a way regardless of what steps a government takes to prevent these events. They are terribly sad and tragic, but if people want to do this, they will find a way.

 

[clob94]

I am with clob and many others here. I personally own two 9MM handguns, a 12 gauge shotgun (that looks military-ish), a 20 gauge shotgun, a .223 hunting rifle, and a 5.56 AR15 that looks less military-ish than my shotgun. Of all of those guns, if I wanted to do harm to people, the AR15 would be the last one chosen. I can get off almost the same amount of rounds in the same amount of time with my handguns that I can with the AR. I could do a lot more harm to people or whatever I am shooting with a 12 gauge shotgun. The weapon of choice is not the problem with these situations. McVeigh used fertilizer, Boston Marathon guys used pressure cookers, 9/11 guys used plastic boxcutters and planes. If someone really wants to do harm to people they will find a way regardless of what steps a government takes to prevent these events. They are terribly sad and tragic, but if people want to do this, they will find a way.

You made me chuckle a little, not in a "mass killing of humans" sort if way obviously, but in a "mass killing of dove" sort of way. I went to Argentina in 2013 to do the whole "dove shellack" hunting trip and instead of being the normal wing shooter and using THEIR 20 Guage they provide you, my a$$ went and bought the Benelli M2, fully camo'd with the pistol grip--(I figured that would help with recoil as I was shooting over 1000 rounds a day) in 12 gauge. Then, because I figured there was no law down there about having a plug in your shotgun, I bought a 12 round extension tube so I could just keep plugging away without having to spend so much time reloading.

Long story short, by the end of the week I was having to shoot left handed and I had no hide left on either thumb from reloading those damn shells over and over and over again.

 

[elcapitan009]

I'm actually well aware that an AR-15 is not a fully automatic military-grade rifle. However, the term "military-grade" is more commonly referring to weapons intended to inflict max amount of damage in a "spray" scenario. Nobody cares what your gun board says is the technically correct terminology. 4G wasn't really 4G and we all just agreed to call it that.

Is there some purpose to having an AR-15? Not really. Sure, you can claim hog hunting or coyotes or whatever, but I think that covers a very, very small amount of the population that actually purchased it. It's designed to LOOK like a military rifle to appease to the idiots that bought 15,000 of them from ONE STORE IN A SINGLE WEEK after the Orlando massacre. "Gonna take away the right to purchase this gun that I didn't own? Now I need it."

And Clob is right, a semi-automatic is a semi-automatic. That said, if you want to fire a handgun, how many rounds do you typically have? 13? Shotgun? 6 is the most I'm familiar with. Hunting rifles don't hold much either.

An AR-15 holds about 30 rounds if you don't modify it. And boy is it easy to modify. Did you know you can get a modification that can practically turn it into a full-auto? Should we allow these? Believe they're technically currently legal and the trigger modification is still "semi-auto" thanks to some loopholes.

 

[ASURAM2010]

I'm actually well aware that an AR-15 is not a fully automatic military-grade rifle. However, the term "military-grade" is more commonly referring to weapons intended to inflict max amount of damage in a "spray" scenario. Nobody cares what your gun board says is the technically correct terminology. 4G wasn't really 4G and we all just agreed to call it that.

Is there some purpose to having an AR-15? Not really. Sure, you can claim hog hunting or coyotes or whatever, but I think that covers a very, very small amount of the population that actually purchased it. It's designed to LOOK like a military rifle to appease to the idiots that bought 15,000 of them from ONE STORE IN A SINGLE WEEK after the Orlando massacre. "Gonna take away the right to purchase this gun that I didn't own? Now I need it."

And Clob is right, a semi-automatic is a semi-automatic. That said, if you want to fire a handgun, how many rounds do you typically have? 13? Shotgun? 6 is the most I'm familiar with. Hunting rifles don't hold much either.

An AR-15 holds about 30 rounds if you don't modify it. And boy is it easy to modify. Did you know you can get a modification that can practically turn it into a full-auto? Should we allow these? Believe they're technically currently legal and the trigger modification is still "semi-auto" thanks to some loopholes.

One of my handguns has a 15 round capacity, the other 7. Reloading that handgun is infinitely easier and quicker than reloading any of my long guns. You can even buy modified magazines that hold somewhere near 30 rounds. Magazines for handguns are significantly less expensive than clips for my AR and ammo is cheaper as well. I know that there are people on both sides of this particular discussion and typically neither of those sides will see the point of views of the other so I believe this discussion is pointless. But all of that to say I don't think by putting regulations in place to prevent law abiding citizens from obtaining guns of any sort will have a positive impact on the number of gun related incidents. By making drugs illegal, we have not diminished the drug problem and you could argue that by making them illegal we have created a market with not controls and no safeguards that have contributed the danger of the drug business.

 

[elcapitan009]

One of my handguns has a 15 round capacity, the other 7. Reloading that handgun is infinitely easier and quicker than reloading any of my long guns. You can even buy modified magazines that hold somewhere near 30 rounds. Magazines for handguns are significantly less expensive than clips for my AR and ammo is cheaper as well. I know that there are people on both sides of this particular discussion and typically neither of those sides will see the point of views of the other so I believe this discussion is pointless. But all of that to say I don't think by putting regulations in place to prevent law abiding citizens from obtaining guns of any sort will have a positive impact on the number of gun related incidents. By making drugs illegal, we have not diminished the drug problem and you could argue that by making them illegal we have created a market with not controls and no safeguards that have contributed the danger of the drug business.

I'm listening. I don't tune out information. It makes sense that reloading a handgun is quicker and easier than a rifle. I've seen modified magazines for handguns but I thought they were illegal for public purchase?

I don't think you having a firearm on you would have changed anything in a mass shooting spectacle. We had a GGG incident in Houston back on Labor Day. Dude cause confusion and panic as police initially thought there were 2 shooters. He was still shot and that was in broad daylight with one guy walking around where he identified and fired at the shooter. A lot of the guys on this board think they can hit a guy firing a rifle into a crowd with music and lights and chaos.

That said, I think you put regulations in place to prevent as many firearms falling into the wrong hands as possible. If you're a law-abiding citizen with a hog problem, maybe an AR-15 is feasible? Maybe not.

And I actually fully believe we should make drugs legal. You're an adult. You can make your own choices. But making drugs legal comes with full regulations and government oversight.

 

[swVAHorn]

I don't own an AR15 nor ever plan on owning one the only thing military-grade about it are it's looks.

I have 3 AR's and 2 other assault style weapons and they are in fact "military grade". Now I don't disagree with you that they are not "assault weapons" because they are NOT assault weapons. An assault weapon has to have select fire and be fully automatic. The AR is military grade in every other aspect....like the quality (as far as build)....the size...shape....ease of use.....caliber...

I love shooting them and I will not ever go on a rampage with them. I do everything legally. I take them to the range and have a lot of fun. Because some killer decides to use them wrong doesn't mean I should be punished. I am a gun enthusiast I would say. I love shooting..always have.

 

[bubba2023]

I think limiting magazine capacities would be a more effective control than outlawing a particular gun. I am a gun rights supporter who is open to better control regulations. It's not going to stop mass shootings and I don't think reload rate played a big role in this particular one given the amount of time he was in there, but I am sure there are situations where it would play a bigger role. The trade off is somewhat inconveniencing hog hunters and target shooters.

 

[clob94]

I've got a Glock 17 and 19 and I think the standard mag on a 17 is 16 rounds. I keep the 19 in my vehicle and it's a 14 round mag. I've been to shoots where guys had the 50 round drum magazine just for sh!ts and giggles, but in an "assault" style situation, that bulky thing is going to slow you down. I've competed in 2 and 3 gun events before--- (why, cause it's fun as sh!t) and I can tell you, dudes with pistols are WAY faster shots than most people with AR style weapons- and at close range, they don't miss.

As far as modifying your weapon goes to shoot full auto, here's the dirty little secret that most people don't realize. Shooters, real shooters with tactical military training, will tell you that it's very rare that they flip their shooting switch over to full auto on their M4 sopmod. (That's the issued weapon to those guys) They prefer to shoot in semiautomatic because 1. They are excellent shooters and accuracy matters most to them 2. When you go full auto, your not as accurate. Full auto is best used in an "Oh sh!t, we've got to get these dudes to get their heads down so we can gain fire superiority then pick these dudes off with what we do best". Rambo style sh!t never happens. But you have to realize, it took years and tens of thousands of rounds for these guys to become the tactical shooting gods that they are. Honestly, if we were REALLY concerned about stopping maximum casualties being inflicted in a close quarters situation, we'd ban shotguns with high capacity mags. Double ought buckshot in a confined space, and the right choke tube on your barrel virtually guarantees you'd never miss. It also virtually guarantees you'd hit multiple people with each shot. But shotguns don't "look" scary enough to most people--- in my opinion-- so they've escaped the eye of scrutiny.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

I think limiting magazine capacities would be a more effective control than outlawing a particular gun. I am a gun rights supporter who is open to better control regulations. It's not going to stop mass shootings and I don't think reload rate played a big role in this particular one given the amount of time he was in there, but I am sure there are situations where it would play a bigger role. The trade off is somewhat inconveniencing hog hunters and target shooters.

What's a mag size for an AR type rifle? 20? If you can't kill a hog with less then 20 shots that hog wasn't meant to die that day.

 

[clob94]

I think limiting magazine capacities would be a more effective control than outlawing a particular gun. I am a gun rights supporter who is open to better control regulations. It's not going to stop mass shootings and I don't think reload rate played a big role in this particular one given the amount of time he was in there, but I am sure there are situations where it would play a bigger role. The trade off is somewhat inconveniencing hog hunters and target shooters.

Bubba, I agree, but for discussion sake, humor me and let me play Devils advocate:

So let's say we limit magazine capacity to 20 rounds instead of 30. And someone uses the 20 rounds mags to kill 25 people. So then we lower the capacity to a 10 round mag. So then a guy uses 10 round mags in a shooting and kills 27. Do we lower it to 5 rounds after that? When do we stop?

 

[bubba2023]

What's a mag size for an AR type rifle? 20? If you can't kill a hog with less then 20 shots that hog wasn't meant to die that day.

Well with hogs because they cause damage to property and are a major problem your goal is kill as many as you can not just one. You come up on a group and you don't want to be reloading after a few shots.

 

[Belldozer1]

Bubba, I agree, but for discussion sake, humor me and let me play Devils advocate:

So let's say we limit magazine capacity to 20 rounds instead of 30. And someone uses the 20 rounds mags to kill 25 people. So then we lower the capacity to a 10 round mag. So then a guy uses 10 round mags in a shooting and kills 27. Do we lower it to 5 rounds after that? When do we stop?

That's the whole problem with gun control in general and I agree.

 

[clob94]

What's a mag size for an AR type rifle? 20? If you can't kill a hog with less then 20 shots that hog wasn't meant to die that day.

Hahaha agreed. But some of those fvckers are tough! And more often than not, they travel in a pack. Mommas and piglets usually. Shooting a 250 pound hog in the shoulder with a 5.56 won't do sh!t to that pig except make him mad. You have to shoot them in the head. Even then, sometimes it takes more than one round. Now every one of them are running around like crazy, so you got to shoot moving targets in the head.....it's tougher than it sounds bro.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Well with hogs because they cause damage to property and are a major problem your goal is kill as many as you can not just one. You come up on a group and you don't want to be reloading after a few shots.

Oh I hear ya! I have hogs in my back yard and I know they're sketish as hell. More than likely though you're only shooting 1 dead and the others are out of there because to my understanding these AR type rifles are no different than any other semi-auto correct? It's not like you're going full auto on these pigs.

 

[Scholz]

That's the whole problem with gun control in general and I agree.

Everything you agree with is wrong. In life. You're a dumb person.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

Hahaha agreed. But some of those fvckers are tough! And more often than not, they travel in a pack. Mommas and piglets usually. Shooting a 250 pound hog in the shoulder with a 5.56 won't do sh!t to that pig except make him mad. You have to shoot them in the head. Even then, sometimes it takes more than one round. Now every one of them are running around like crazy, so you got to shoot moving targets in the head.....it's tougher than it sounds bro.

I've seen a hog in my neighbor hood with a damn arrow stuck in it's side. Walking around like nothing ever even happened! %uckers stink to high heaven as well.

 

[elcapitan009]

Bubba, I agree, but for discussion sake, humor me and let me play Devils advocate:

So let's say we limit magazine capacity to 20 rounds instead of 30. And someone uses the 20 rounds mags to kill 25 people. So then we lower the capacity to a 10 round mag. So then a guy uses 10 round mags in a shooting and kills 27. Do we lower it to 5 rounds after that? When do we stop?

It goes the other way too. If you allow a semiautomatic mod, why not fully automatic? Why isn't your neighbor allowed a bazooka? Maybe the HOA should all pitch in for a tank?

Also, regarding your post on automatic weapons losing their accuracy, it's a completely different subject. I don't think they are going for accuracy or conservation of ammo in a nightclub/school/theatre.

 

[clob94]

We try and ambush them. Get two or three guys set up to hit as many as we can as quickly as we can. But they are suuuper smart animals.

 

[Belldozer1]

Everything you agree with is wrong. In life. You're a dumb person.

Scholz where does gun control end? If you limit magazine size, what next? Take away AR15 and the next radical trying to appease Allah goes off with a couple glocks. Just say where it ends? At some point you have to look at the individuals and the ideology behind them. The gun isn't pulling its own trigger, amirite?

 

[bubba2023]

Bubba, I agree, but for discussion sake, humor me and let me play Devils advocate:

So let's say we limit magazine capacity to 20 rounds instead of 30. And someone uses the 20 rounds mags to kill 25 people. So then we lower the capacity to a 10 round mag. So then a guy uses 10 round mags in a shooting and kills 27. Do we lower it to 5 rounds after that? When do we stop?

It stops when the side that doesn't agree has the power to stop it. To your point when does it start?

 

[clob94]

It goes the other way too. If you allow a semiautomatic mod, why not fully automatic? Why isn't your neighbor allowed a bazooka? Maybe the HOA should all pitch in for a tank?

Also, regarding your post on automatic weapons losing their accuracy, it's a completely different subject. I don't think they are going for accuracy or conservation of ammo in a nightclub/school/theatre.

And THAT elcapitan is my argument in the 2nd ammendment--"a well regulated". We are well regulated. I'd love to own a bazooka! But I digress, it would just be for the "cool" factor. But, because we are well regulated, I don't get to own one.

 

[LongfellowDrew]

How does one get these type of guns? Serious question.

https://instagram.com/p/BG7x1hywzei/