OT: School Shootings
- Thread starter LongfellowDrew
- Start date
I'm not going to go off on a long political rant here and pretend to know how to solve these shootings . . . but I will say that the point TX1972 makes is not only a simple one but profound as well.
The toughest man I ever knew was my great grand father. When I was in 5th grade, I was pulled out of math class by my father and off in the car we went. Seems a man tried to rob my great grand father at his home in Lamesa, Tx. My great grand father explained to the man that his wallet was in the bedroom . . . and proceeded to go get it. He then came back out with a 12 guage shotgun and blew the man's head off. He then made himself a sandwhich and called the police. He was 94 years old when he did that! He was tougher physically and emotionally than the back end of a shooting gallery.
The 2nd toughest man I ever knew was my grand father. Both a rancher and a restaurant owner, he worked 18 hour days routinely. He gave me a .22 caliber semi automatic rifle at the age of 5 and fully expected me to use it wisely. I did because I knew it was a serious weapon that could kill. He gave no quarter to lazy people and expected everyone to be accountable for their actions. He could whip men twice his size and routinely did so. There was no nonsense with grand dad.
Then there was my father, 6'6" and 300 lbs of hell, death and destruction. One of 4 children, his father was murdered and they were raised by an illiterate mother with 1 tooth in her mouth. They were poorer than poor yet he and his siblings all became successful through determination and hard work. He didn't tolerate fools or stupid lazy people so I'm not sure why he became a principle in Midland, Tx?? He was the guy people went to when there was real trouble at the school.
The point I'm making is that each generation gets weaker than the one before it. But it's not only physically weaker its emotionally and intellectually weaker as well. The kids today, whether white/black, male/female, liberal/conservative . . . it doesn't matter . . . well, they're weak as hell compared to previous generations and often don't possess the necessary skills to deal with the real world. Then something happens and they crack.
Is this the sole reason why they believe it's their right to shoot up schools and kill other kids ? No it isn't . . . but it's one of the reasons. So many kids today are weak minded, narcisistic and selfish . . . and think life owes them something. It doesn't.
My 2 cents
Yes, generation by generation we are becoming weaker and you're correct something else is happening as well. Our thought processes are becoming more relative. Today, people act upon feelings as apposed to a set of rules which work in tandem with the conscience. For example, nerdy kid likes captain of the cheer leading squad and asks her on a date and as the story goes dude gets rejected. Back in the day, guys learned to live with it. Our rules taught by our parents or God forbid the 10 Commandments told us to love or at least respect our neighbor and not to covet. Fast forward to today, same kid instead acts upon his feelings because he has no set of rules except that which he feels; so because of his covetousness, he decides that if he can't have her then no one will. His solution is to shoot up the school killing her and her friends. Some would call this becoming weaker but I call it DEPRAVITY. We are becoming more depraved in the mind and the only mitigating force which can act upon a culture like this is a police state. It's coming, live with it.
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The 1st Marine to ever sign up told the next Marine in line you should have been around for the old corps.
The point is people have been saying the generation that came along after theirs is weaker and the end is coming for a long, long time.
The end is not coming for a while, but the present is different from the past and the future will be different from the present. That's what we have to live with.
The point is people have been saying the generation that came along after theirs is weaker and the end is coming for a long, long time.
The end is not coming for a while, but the present is different from the past and the future will be different from the present. That's what we have to live with.
I read a quote ot long ago about this:
It said (basically) hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.
It said (basically) hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.
Human nature abides. We can't become the "new soviet man".
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
Attributed to Socrates by Plato sometime around 400 BC. We will go with 25 years for a generation to make the math easy. Since that statement was made there have been approximately 97 generations. So are we 97x weaker than the people in 400 BC or is it that we just can't give kids credit for anything.
I have worked with high school and college kids for almost 20 years now. I am excited about the future. Sure there are turds, mouth breathers and gang bangers but they have been around for a long time. We just don't let them drop out of high school now. At the college level I get kids who have no business being here but the vast majority do. I have kids that work their butts off in the classroom while working and doing community service. In fact most of my top notch students are first gen minority females and on the flip side some of my worst students are first gen minority males. But there are way more good students than there are bad students but I will have to admit they definitely have a different world view. Doesn't mean they are soft or weak just different.
Attributed to Socrates by Plato sometime around 400 BC. We will go with 25 years for a generation to make the math easy. Since that statement was made there have been approximately 97 generations. So are we 97x weaker than the people in 400 BC or is it that we just can't give kids credit for anything.
I have worked with high school and college kids for almost 20 years now. I am excited about the future. Sure there are turds, mouth breathers and gang bangers but they have been around for a long time. We just don't let them drop out of high school now. At the college level I get kids who have no business being here but the vast majority do. I have kids that work their butts off in the classroom while working and doing community service. In fact most of my top notch students are first gen minority females and on the flip side some of my worst students are first gen minority males. But there are way more good students than there are bad students but I will have to admit they definitely have a different world view. Doesn't mean they are soft or weak just different.
Really?
According to WIkipedia:
"Citizens of the European Union enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration."
Based upon another Wikipedia article:
European countries differ on freedom of religion. In some countries, a certain faith has special status (e.g., Catholicism in Italy). Others grant specific benefits to a set of religions, but not all belief systems are thus "recognized" (e.g., Austria doesn't recognize Scientology, a controversial and possibly dangerous "religion," IMO). That said, you'll generally see freedom of religion across Europe, although the specifics of how that works are going to vary.
Citizens of other countries could poke holes in how we do things, and define "freedom of X" as how they operate. Thus, to them, the USA would not have the freedoms that they enjoy.
Hmmm... I've attended various Christian denomination's services, including Catholic, and other faiths, too, as well as evangelical churches. Currently, I work on Sundays and don't attend any building known as a church building. (My "church" is my family and friends who are believers, which I believe is what the Bible teaches, anyway.)
I definitely don't EVER recall being taught to fear or hate anyone, nor worship a Jewish zombie magician, nor a genocidal racist asshole.
What I DO recall and believe are to respect others and treat them kindly, whether they're different than me or similar. In fact, I highly value diversity and tolerance. I've prayed with Muslims in masjid, and Catholics in mass, and plenty of Protestants of various sorts. With all of these people, including those who were evangelicals, there were issues we agreed upon and other issues that we didn't.
And yet I'm an evangelical (and a liberal on many political issues, conservative on a few).
But thanks for posting.
Send the link with facts. Whether it's 2-8 we still have an issue with school shootings.
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Check Clobs post a few responses down. Europe does not have freedom of speech and lack many other freedoms as well. Wiki is incorrect.
Edit: Can you deny the Holocaust in Germany? I am not a denier of the Holocaust, quite the contrary. I am just pointing out an issue.
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I stuck a suppository in my rear once but it doesn't make me an expert on anal sex.
Others argue that it would........ this is our conundrum.
Ever since Grog picked up a rock and smashed Clog on the head, humans have been killing each other. And when Brog saw Grog bash in Clog's head, Brog realized he'd need a bigger rock than Grog had.
Watching other mammals in the wild and in the ocean will teach you this: when there's lots to go around, the whales work together with the dolphins and the sharks to keep that ball of sardines tight so everybody can eat. Once the ball gets down to its last few fish, all bets are off and it's every man/fish for himself.
We as humans think we are different. We aren't.
I don't know what the answer to school shooting might be but, perhaps there's just not enough fish to go around.
Others argue that it would........ this is our conundrum.
Ever since Grog picked up a rock and smashed Clog on the head, humans have been killing each other. And when Brog saw Grog bash in Clog's head, Brog realized he'd need a bigger rock than Grog had.
Watching other mammals in the wild and in the ocean will teach you this: when there's lots to go around, the whales work together with the dolphins and the sharks to keep that ball of sardines tight so everybody can eat. Once the ball gets down to its last few fish, all bets are off and it's every man/fish for himself.
We as humans think we are different. We aren't.
I don't know what the answer to school shooting might be but, perhaps there's just not enough fish to go around.
If I understand you correctly, that's silly. Because Germany (and the UK, with Mein Kampf) have exceptions to free speech, you conclude that Europe doesn't protect speech?
The USA doesn't allow incitement to violence if it creates an "imminent intent." Nor can we incite suicide, libel or slander. We cannot publish child pornography. That doesn't mean we don't have free speech.
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Burning books and limiting political speech is different than shouting fire in a crowded theater. Hope these links make sense.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/...ed-of-hateful-postings-over-social-media.html
https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4474400
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Social media and smart phones have changed everything. They communicate differently. They are more connected to the outside world. They don't get news from traditional sources. One student told me that if she wants to know whats going on in Syria she follows Syrians on Instagram, Twitter, or Snapchat and talks to people on the ground directly. Becuase of this they approach problems differently than I would. I tried twitter and snapchat. I just don't get it but because I don't get it doesn't mean what they do doesn't have value.
For some reason they feel the need to document and post everything. I am a pretty private person and I don't post much on social media. Good or bad they feel the need to go on their phone and broadcast whatever to all of their followers. Its also given rise to slactivism. They are more informed but less engaged I think. Its like look at me I dumped a bucket of ice water on my head to support this cause. I don't know. I am 41 they are between 17-22 and they are just very different.
Very good explanation of how they think. When I think of "World View", I think creationist vs Darwanist etc...
Yes, they are different. I didn't equate them. You missed the point -- posting right after I did -- and put words in my mouth.
You cited book burnings, which is odd, considering that the USA has had many recently, whereas Europe has been almost free of them. Unless maybe you cite book burnings as an example of free speech that you want to preserve?
In this century:
WHERE:
- ~54+% of book burnings in the 21st century happened in the USA (45+%) or by the U.S. military (9%)
- 18% happened in Iraq or Syria, by ISIS
- 3% happened in Europe (Bosnia), so there goes your idea.
- 33% of the book burners in the 21st century were Muslims*
- ~25 - 40% of the book burners were Christians* (low number is due to Qur'ans being burned by Americans who aren't Christian; high estimate is due to undercounted Harry Potter books being burned)
- Hindus*, Jews* and FLDS Mormons* were also responsible for a book burning each
- About 21% were political, including 6% by liberals*
- Governments were responsible for 12% of the book burnings (3 BBs by the U.S. government, and 1 BB by the Cuban government)
- ~64% of the book burnings (or library burnings) appear to have been religiously-motivated:
- Qur'ans were burned 30+% of the time.
- Bibles or New Testaments were burned 15+% of the time
- The rest of the 64% were entire libraries being burned by ISIS, mainly, plus FLDS Mormons
- ~27% of recent book burnings were politically-motivated
- The U.S. military was involved in 3 book burnings that didn't fit the above classifications:
- To protect classified information, the Pentagon burned all the copies of an unreleased book.
- To prevent the Taliban from using communicating via notes left in books, which included 4 Qur'ans, the U.S. military burned a library.
- To hinder Christian soldiers from proselytizing in Bagram, Afghanistan, the U.S. military burned an unknown number of Bibles and probably other evangelistic materials.
Like someone said , I was raised to be at Church 4 or 5 times a week. My Mom was 5' 8" Country Girl and weighed about 300 and she kept me trapped between her and the Church Door. When they opened it, I fell in.
So, when I became a young man, I said, "Ok. I am running this now" and became a Bible reading Heathen. One day, as I arrived at the Chem Plant I spent 30 years running, one of my men arrived about the same time. He asked "Fred, are you a CHRISTian?"
I said, "Joe, if they were still throwing CHRISTians to the lions, I would not even get picked up for questioning. Why do you ask?"
Joe said, "I saw your lips moving as you drove up the to parking lot and I thought you were praying."
I replied, " I was. I was asking GOD to help me to have the answer to any question that bomb we work at asks...and any questions my men have about what to do about answering it. Joe, anybody that does not ask GOD's help as he walks through that chain link fence has not figured out what we are dealing with here."
"Joe, I got promoted too quickly here and did not know enough to be a #1 Operator. I asked GOD to run it for me until I had learned enough to do it. Nothing really ever happened on my shift. I was allowed to walk up on a 'snake' just in time to pull its fangs. My contemporaries had awful times compared to me. Then, after a year, one day, I thanked GOD and said , "Ok LORD...let me have it."
The next day was the worst day I ever spent there...but at the end of shift, I had that bomb back under control...barely and had survived. As I walked to the truck, I said, under my breath , "Wow...LORD, please take it back!"
Just as clear as a bell, I heard a laugh and HE said, "Nope! You've got it, Bub!"
But HE was with me and still let me kill some BIG snakes out there. I wound up writing an Operating Guidelines in "High School Boy" in 1987 that is still used...even though I could not imagine the rates they are running these days. Even though it is illegal, because of Document Control rules, some of my last pups are the Rottweilers now, still use it to train their newbies. It's about 3-5 pounds of paper and is no small thing to digest.
By the way, I am back in Church. It is one of my greatest pleasures to take my Wife there... and it doesn't hurt a bit to be with GOD's people again. GOD made me take an Elder's job there even though HE knew I did not want to...as I do not rate being called that.
For the Baptists ( which I was raised) and others, Elder's the same thing as a Deacon
.....in the Lutheran Churches
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Religion is always a interesting hard fought subject. I took a Christian apologetics class (had to private Christian university) and read tons of books on the subject and there are tactics to take on defending your faith. It's actually interesting because these tactics are suppose to help you not get into a heated argument and not step on each other's toes.
He was in fear for his life. Like the Orlando SWAT team that waited outside for hours while the shooter killed.
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