Keep your hunting and home protection guns. There's no need for these weapons of mass killing in the civilian population IMO. Doesn't happen in any other civilized nation and thus we're the only one with this ridiculous school shooting problem.
OT: School Shootings
- Thread starter LongfellowDrew
- Start date
My problem and I hope yours as well is that the people in government are not to be trusted. The whole reason for the 2nd amendment was to protect freedoms. If the police have it then the population should have it. I am not against the police, it's the government that bothers me. We are only ever one generation away from totalitarianism. Don't laugh, it can happen here.
I’m confused 1972. You said cops kill more children than school shootings but then you go off on unjustified shootings. Again the subject is children being killed at school.
I suspect you have a bone to pick with cops but I do not think cops are killing our children. But maybe you have a long list of children being shot by cops.
I suspect you have a bone to pick with cops but I do not think cops are killing our children. But maybe you have a long list of children being shot by cops.
The USA spends over $600 billion a year on its military which is more than the next 8 countries combined. If it wants your stuff, you're not stopping it.
See this is the problem. Instead of talking about keeping guns out of the hands of school shooters we are talking about armed citizens fighting tanks. This is why nothing ever gets done. Then it's look a squirrel. And it's out of our collective concise.
I don't think that would make much of a difference in the grand scheme of it all. Let's say all ar/ak type sport rifles are banned and unavailable. The crazies will then show up with what is available. Personally, I think there should be something implemented along the lines of getting a drivers license. Must complete so many hours of education & practical training followed by a test. Hell, maybe even a psych eval before your 1st purchase and every 10yrs or so because life circumstances change.
I'm a strong 2nd amendment supporter and owner of a fairly impressive collection but as a father I'm also open to identifying the loose cannons.
I just read that this kid was reported to the fbi a while back due to a youtube video where he said he planned to do exactly what he did.
The FBI tidbit just seems like a red herring. I am assuming he already had the guns long before he posted things on the internet. All crazy people are crazy in hindsight. Maybe I am wrong and they were all recent purchases, but either way background checks don't work like that and trolling the internet for crazies and detaining them until you can further attest their threat is not a path anyone wants to go down.
Nothing ever gets done because politicians take blood money from the gun lobby and sit on their hands and send thoughts and prayers. Talking about it on a UT football site isn't the problem.
If nothing happened after 20 1st graders got murdered, nothing will. That's when our politicians failed. The talk is all moot at this point.
My point exactly it's always a diversion because we just don't want to talk about ANYTHING to do with guns.
No offense but tell the people who fought the revolutionary war this, they might laugh at you.
We have people eating tide pods man I highly doubt we have people that are in that same realm. Reality is if the government wanted your guns or you dead it wouldn't take much. You may put up a fight but it's not likely you're going to win. Remember "Fury and Fire" is what we have! I think I said that right.
I always find it funny how we can have so many people talk up our military on here but then say in the same breath that they could fight tooth and nail against them.
You make a good point here and I’ve used the same argument against the prepper movement. It’s all great in theory but unfortunately, we’re at the governments mercy when push comes to shove, unfortunately, I might add.
A large part of the Continental Army was British trained and outfitted with muskets bayonets and cannons. Plus we got a lot of help from the French Army
Who was George Washington? How many retired and former military are out there? Just saying that it's best to keep leadership honest and afraid rather than cozy and corrupt. IMO we have too many on both sides that have been corrupted. Politicians are like dirty diapers. It's best to change them early and often.
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George Orwell predicted our current situation 70 years ago in his 1984 book:
“The people will not revolt. They will not look up from their screens long enough to notice what’s happening.”
We are so busy Facebooking, Snapchatting, Tweeting etc that we are missing what is happening in the world.
“The people will not revolt. They will not look up from their screens long enough to notice what’s happening.”
We are so busy Facebooking, Snapchatting, Tweeting etc that we are missing what is happening in the world.
Washington's army had the same type of weaponry as the British. How many retired military generals have a tank battalion or a fighter jet squadron sitting in their backyard?
Sad but I for one will not leave my kids to Orwell's world. I'll will fight first.
Still the numbers do not play out well for the government as well as the public perception. Most of the enlisted aren't going to want to be fighting brothers and sisters; but by all means, go ahead and bow to your betters. We are moving there at light speed.
I can fix this. Ya, ya I know, you're already shaking your collective heads and saying "sure you can, buddy".... but hear me out and call me crazy if you want---
In Switzerland, every able bodied male at the age of 18 must enlist in the military for a certain period of time. You're given training, including firearms training. At the end of your service, you can be honorably discharged, and They send you home with the fully automatic rifle that you trained with, and you are made a "reservist". They can call upon you at any moment to defend the homeland from invasion.
In Israel, they do the same thing-- except even the WOMEN must serve. Perfect case in point--- arguably the biggest female star in Hollywood right now is Wonder Woman-- Gal Gadot (sp). Not only is she stunningly gorgeous, but she could kick your a$$. Don't believe me? Before she became a star, Gadot served in the Israeli defense force. She was so talented that Mossaad recruited her to be a HAND TO HAND COMBAT INSTRUCTOR. If you teach Mossaad agents hand to hand combat, you're pretty much a blue ribbon certified bad a$$. Think she knows how to properly handle a gun?
Do you see mass shootings in Switzerland? Everybody has a gun. Do you see them amongst the Israelis? Everybody has access to guns.
It comes down to training. Yes, there will be a few bad apples, but-- why not propose this -
After your senior year of HS, before college, every able bodied student must serve two years. You don't have to do military service-- you can do humanitarian work if you want BUT there are two things that you must do.
1. 4 months of survival training, hand to hand, and firearms training. You learn how to live in the wilderness, start camp fires, hunt, defend yourself etc.
2. After your training, you have to serve on foreign soil. Peace Corp, red cross, Drs without borders, military-- whatever. But you will be sent to a different country to help them in some way. Want to protect mountain gorillas from poachers in the Congo? Here you go. Want to help rebuild houses in Thailand that were destroyed by a tsunami? Let's do it. Want to help vaccinate kids against polio in South Sudan? Have at it.
You'll spend 8 months away from mommy and daddy, you'll learn accountability, you'll be helping humanity, you will learn self reliance as well as serve with teenagers that will be your friends for life. And there's no getting out of it. You better be stuck in a wheelchair with no brain functions at all if you are to get out of this.
You come home at 19 with some experience under your belt, a greater understanding of how fvcking lucky you have it here, the ability to better grasp different cultures, the training to survive in adverse situations, the ability to responsibly handle a firearm, AND (especially for women) the ability to defend yourself from an aggressor.
Now, flame away.
In Switzerland, every able bodied male at the age of 18 must enlist in the military for a certain period of time. You're given training, including firearms training. At the end of your service, you can be honorably discharged, and They send you home with the fully automatic rifle that you trained with, and you are made a "reservist". They can call upon you at any moment to defend the homeland from invasion.
In Israel, they do the same thing-- except even the WOMEN must serve. Perfect case in point--- arguably the biggest female star in Hollywood right now is Wonder Woman-- Gal Gadot (sp). Not only is she stunningly gorgeous, but she could kick your a$$. Don't believe me? Before she became a star, Gadot served in the Israeli defense force. She was so talented that Mossaad recruited her to be a HAND TO HAND COMBAT INSTRUCTOR. If you teach Mossaad agents hand to hand combat, you're pretty much a blue ribbon certified bad a$$. Think she knows how to properly handle a gun?
Do you see mass shootings in Switzerland? Everybody has a gun. Do you see them amongst the Israelis? Everybody has access to guns.
It comes down to training. Yes, there will be a few bad apples, but-- why not propose this -
After your senior year of HS, before college, every able bodied student must serve two years. You don't have to do military service-- you can do humanitarian work if you want BUT there are two things that you must do.
1. 4 months of survival training, hand to hand, and firearms training. You learn how to live in the wilderness, start camp fires, hunt, defend yourself etc.
2. After your training, you have to serve on foreign soil. Peace Corp, red cross, Drs without borders, military-- whatever. But you will be sent to a different country to help them in some way. Want to protect mountain gorillas from poachers in the Congo? Here you go. Want to help rebuild houses in Thailand that were destroyed by a tsunami? Let's do it. Want to help vaccinate kids against polio in South Sudan? Have at it.
You'll spend 8 months away from mommy and daddy, you'll learn accountability, you'll be helping humanity, you will learn self reliance as well as serve with teenagers that will be your friends for life. And there's no getting out of it. You better be stuck in a wheelchair with no brain functions at all if you are to get out of this.
You come home at 19 with some experience under your belt, a greater understanding of how fvcking lucky you have it here, the ability to better grasp different cultures, the training to survive in adverse situations, the ability to responsibly handle a firearm, AND (especially for women) the ability to defend yourself from an aggressor.
Now, flame away.
How does this fix school shootings? I see how that fixes assholes that don’t have a plan and need guidance but that’s after school.
Those two cases really don't apply to our situation. Israel needs it because they are surrounded by enemies on all sides. They need as many bodies as they can get. Switzerland doesn't really have a standing army. 5% of the military is full time. Its the way the US was before the war of 1812. We had a distrust of standing armies until the British burned down our capital. Anyway the guys that end up being school shooters would be disqualified from service in both places due to the entry requirements.
@Scholz, I love you man but I've got to respectfully disagree with you just a tad.
More people are killed with hand guns, by far. Now yes, I DO AGREE that "mass shootings" that make headlines are usually perpetrated with long guns like ARs and AK style weapons. But let' look at it like this-
Soft target vs hard target-
In the movies, you see military guys putting suppressors on their hand gun to shoot bad guys. In the history of special operations, you can count on one hand the number of bad guys that have been killed this way. Hand guns with a suppressor is used to shoot the dog. When our SOF guys decide to hit a house that has an HVT (high value target) if that dude has a dog in his yard, the dog will be dispatched this way. After that, when they enter the home, they are using a long weapon. Why? Accuracy, inertial stopping power, difficulty in having the weapon taken from you, and if the worst happens, lots of rounds to put on target. These are considered "hardened targets" though. These guys expect the targets to be armed. They expect a fight.
Schools are not hardened targets. They are soft targets. Using a long weapon against a soft target is, from a tactical stand point, over kill.
Want to see real carnage, replace this kids AR with a Benelli M2 shotgun, a gun that I own and use on everything from dove to deer, buy a 75$ 12 round extension tube and some double ought buck shot, and now you've got a real problem. Ballistics say that one AR round will take down 1 kid, unless you have a "through and through" (bullet goes through one kid and into another). However, 1 blast of buckshot can take down multiple targets if they are huddled together. A crowded room full of targets is literally fish in a barrel. Where do you think the phrase "turkey shoot" cones from?
Unless you are well trained in shooting, the AR platform is a terrible way to conduct close quarters combat. The AR and AK get the bad rep because they are "scary looking" or remind people If military style weapons. If these idiots ever figured this out and switched out their AR for a tactical style shotgun, the poop will really hit the fan. You don't have to be a great shooter, there's huge margin for error and you can hit multiple targets with one trigger pull. Reloading? Yes, I will grant you that reloading a shotty is harder and more time consuming than hitting a mag release button and jamming home another 30 round mag, but I am willing to bet you any amount of money that the hit/miss ratio with an AR in shootings like these is maybe 1-3 or 1-4. That means that at MAX each 30 round mag scores only 10 hits. Of those 10 hits, how many are lethal?
Switch that out with a shotgun and virtually every round has a much higher % chance of scoring a hit- with some rounds scoring multiple hits if targets are huddled.
If you want to get serious about what weapons have the potential to shwack folks in this environment, target tactical shotguns. Trust me, if these clowns had training and knew what they were doing, they'd be doing this.
After a few years, a culture will develop. More responsible citizens lead to a more responsible community. It would take a while, but, like the Swiss, eventually we can phase this out.
Ok I get what you're saying.
Would you like to change our American culture if say we only allowed you to have a hand gun and rifle. Your right to bear arms is still valid but it's no longer how many you want or military replicas or bump stocks etc... Wouldn't that change culture as well? People would sooner or later get used to just having what is necessary to defend themselves from the "bad guys" right?
This year we are going to have 3.6 million kids graduate from high schools. 3.3 million from public schools and .3 million from private schools. How are we going to put 3.6 million kids through basic training before they start work or go to college?
I'm not saying it would be easy boss, but change never is.
Can you imagine the good we could do as a society if we sent 3 million ppl per year out into the world that had some training, first aid, survival skills and were willing to help?
We are usually the envy of every nation. This would make us, hands down, a stronger, safer, more influential place.
