Thought provoking article on the horizon for the BigXII and possible growth
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Who cares about religion here?
Lets be honest. TCU and BU really don't have the power to push out BYU. If the conference commish and the other 8 schools are all in on getting BYU, they are coming. The commish is reportedly worried about the viability of this conf, as are the members. If getting BYU or Satan U from Mexico City would save his job, he'd do it. BU's vote or UT/OUs vote be damned.
Thats the real story here. How this vote goes down, will dictate whether the conf will add or stay put. And that has huge ramifications on whether the conf ultimately survives years from now or how it will change/grow/adapt.
Lets be honest. TCU and BU really don't have the power to push out BYU. If the conference commish and the other 8 schools are all in on getting BYU, they are coming. The commish is reportedly worried about the viability of this conf, as are the members. If getting BYU or Satan U from Mexico City would save his job, he'd do it. BU's vote or UT/OUs vote be damned.
Thats the real story here. How this vote goes down, will dictate whether the conf will add or stay put. And that has huge ramifications on whether the conf ultimately survives years from now or how it will change/grow/adapt.
The other reality is that Texas in some ways caused this.
I hate to even type that because the haters will pounce on it and 99% of the things they blame us for are NOT true. Like ATM left and blamed Texas and LHN, but in reality we tried to help them with Joint Lonestar network and their internal documents/emails admitted they could make more $ in BigXII with their own TV deal but that they needed to get out of daddy Texas' shadow.
But back to the first sentence. UT had a big voice in this conf realignment in the beginning. And really wasn't sure what they wanted to do. Other than they wanted to make sure they still got their $. And less teams meant more $. And arrogantly thought with UT and OU this conf would be able to survive no matter what. And if it was crumbling that they could fix it. Well its crumbling. And not just now, but in the future this status quo of stability is going to change and more conf realignment is coming. Right now everyone is feeling out if the move to larger divisions is better and how it pertains to the new playoff mix. But more is coming, and we are right now in a weakened state of negotiation as it pertains to being a stable place to come hang out. They need to hit that 12 mark if the vote goes against 10 team CC games AND THEY KNOW IT.
The reactive nature led to this. Not the idea that there was no one to add. Pieces literally flew all around the country in a maze of new conference alignment. When they were forced to add....they did with TCU and WVU. If they had wanted to add more before/after that....they could have. And some would have been great moves and big time programs. They just failed to do so because the conf Pres at the time wasn't trying to.
I hate to even type that because the haters will pounce on it and 99% of the things they blame us for are NOT true. Like ATM left and blamed Texas and LHN, but in reality we tried to help them with Joint Lonestar network and their internal documents/emails admitted they could make more $ in BigXII with their own TV deal but that they needed to get out of daddy Texas' shadow.
But back to the first sentence. UT had a big voice in this conf realignment in the beginning. And really wasn't sure what they wanted to do. Other than they wanted to make sure they still got their $. And less teams meant more $. And arrogantly thought with UT and OU this conf would be able to survive no matter what. And if it was crumbling that they could fix it. Well its crumbling. And not just now, but in the future this status quo of stability is going to change and more conf realignment is coming. Right now everyone is feeling out if the move to larger divisions is better and how it pertains to the new playoff mix. But more is coming, and we are right now in a weakened state of negotiation as it pertains to being a stable place to come hang out. They need to hit that 12 mark if the vote goes against 10 team CC games AND THEY KNOW IT.
The reactive nature led to this. Not the idea that there was no one to add. Pieces literally flew all around the country in a maze of new conference alignment. When they were forced to add....they did with TCU and WVU. If they had wanted to add more before/after that....they could have. And some would have been great moves and big time programs. They just failed to do so because the conf Pres at the time wasn't trying to.
I disagree. OU just did this. And they are a prestigious program.
The conf as a whole was viewed as pretty tough this year. Many pundits had it behind the Pac12 as the deepest conf.
That still doesn't mean it is viable and or at its strongest in the coming years by staying at 10 or not having a CC game. Views change. The reality of what the conf guys say of "not having a 13th data point to enhance a teams cache in terms of a CC game" won't change no matter who wins 12 games.
It is what it is, they are going to react towards this vote by then deciding to respond and start being proactive for the future.
Bailor and TCU are about as Christian as Miami (unfortunately) - they won't care about BYU coming in because they're mormons, trust me.
Bailor broke with the SBC years ago. Again, Bailor is far, far from being the Christian university it once was.
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Baylor is still affiliated with the SBC and the Regents are elected by the former regents and by the Baptist General Convention of Texas. If you are interested go look at the members of the board of Regents. The members are either business leaders who graduated from Baylor in the 70s and 80s or Baptist Pastors who went to Baylor.
Who cares?????
Unlike the last go round, this BigXII commish is trying to keep his job. Not be the lacky for a U or 2. Certainly not BU or TCU. When it comes to adding TV sets to the conf and the conf making $, that trumps any concerns about religion. This is about football, baseball, basketball, tv deals, student athletes traveling to campuses, and the conference reacting to probably not being allowed to have a CC game at 10 teams and then admitting they want to go to 12. Its not about church.
Last I checked the SBC gets the same vote in this expansion that Obama, Donald Trump, Mack Brown and that you or I do. None.
Unlike the last go round, this BigXII commish is trying to keep his job. Not be the lacky for a U or 2. Certainly not BU or TCU. When it comes to adding TV sets to the conf and the conf making $, that trumps any concerns about religion. This is about football, baseball, basketball, tv deals, student athletes traveling to campuses, and the conference reacting to probably not being allowed to have a CC game at 10 teams and then admitting they want to go to 12. Its not about church.
Last I checked the SBC gets the same vote in this expansion that Obama, Donald Trump, Mack Brown and that you or I do. None.
It depends on what they are looking for. And what voices speak loud in the room.
If they want football accumen. All around programs good in multiple sports. A sprinkle of academics. Nice game venues. Guess is mostly TV sets. It'll probably be a banter of all of the above.
I don't see UH making the cut as an early target, but they'd be a fall back option. For the same reasons they haven't been looked at in the past. They really are a sleeping giant in football and possibly other sports if they ever were placed in a p5 conference. They just don't add TV sets and certain powers in the conf don't want to strengthen them with no real monetary TV gain from them.
If they want football accumen. All around programs good in multiple sports. A sprinkle of academics. Nice game venues. Guess is mostly TV sets. It'll probably be a banter of all of the above.
I don't see UH making the cut as an early target, but they'd be a fall back option. For the same reasons they haven't been looked at in the past. They really are a sleeping giant in football and possibly other sports if they ever were placed in a p5 conference. They just don't add TV sets and certain powers in the conf don't want to strengthen them with no real monetary TV gain from them.
This is where I question Bowlsby. He may be great, but he may suck. Our conference got fleeced of 4 solid programs due, in large part, to lack of leadership at the commissioner's level. He wasn't present at the time. But now he is. Why not take a page from Big 10 and SEC playbook, and troll someone else? There's no way every single Power 5 school is happy with their situation. BYU will be fine, but Cincy, UH, Boise, and whoever else will not add the power win necessary to get in the Final 4. I sense Bowlsby is a do nothing bureaucrat. Go find that unhappy gem Bowlsby.
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The only conference we can fleese is the SEC, and I can't think of a single scenario where an SEC school would leave that conference for the Big 12.
Best option for Texas is getting out of the Big 12. ASAP
Best option for Texas is getting out of the Big 12. ASAP
The only way that expansion would be worth it would be to get a power 5 school from a top 30 TV market not already in the current footprint. The the two biggest losses from the Big 12 were Missouri and Colorado. Denver is the 18th biggest market, St Louis is the 21st and KC is the 31st.
The additions of BYU and Cincy would bring the 33rd and 34th biggest markets. If you really want to bring in dollars from TV then Tampa 13th, Orlando 19th, and Charlotte 24th make much more sense. Heck Atlanta 8th and Nashville 29th would be worth looking at.
The additions of BYU and Cincy would bring the 33rd and 34th biggest markets. If you really want to bring in dollars from TV then Tampa 13th, Orlando 19th, and Charlotte 24th make much more sense. Heck Atlanta 8th and Nashville 29th would be worth looking at.
I think taking Clemson, FSU, va tech, Miami out of the ACC makes sense. The ACC is basically a basketball conference. Problem is I think the ACC has made it basicslly impossible to Leave. If the conferece wants to expand they'll have to just take good programs. The chase for tv money is over and the big 12 got caught napping.
I will say it again....start wooing Georgia Tech....located in ATL and good academics....pretty strong FB and BB programs....wouldnt mind pissing off the SEC....they were a charter member after all...how strongly could they be linked to the ACC?
Big 12 would have to pony up about 160 million as it would cost us about 35 million each to take them out of the ACC and their no out contract. I think Maryland ended up paying about 32 million to get out of the ACC for the Big 10.
Yeah they made it virtually impossible to get out after all the realignment I think there was a time where that was an option. The big 12 let it pass by. Although perhaps if the schools and conferences agreed to pay the sums together maybe it's possible, but your right the idea has past most likely.
UConn would be my first choice. The Only downside to UConn is they are not the best football program right now but it is a young and promising football program plus they have A+ men's basketball A+ women's basketball and the New York/New England TV market. Cincinnati brings a good basketball program and a solid football program and also adds Ohio recruiting with a Big12 footprint. You also get the Cincinnati/Ohio TV market. These two both have negative issues but the positives outweigh them IMO. Two reasons that both these two schools would be great additions are 1. A conference championship game generates more revenue for all eventually. 2. With Big12 revenue these schools would flourish. It won't happen overnight but going from 7-8 million in revenue to 25-30 million would put both these schools at the level the Big12 needs them. It also enables East/West divisions and WVU is no longer geographically isolated.
One more thing I think the smart thing for the Big12 to do is not be satisfied with 12. Go to 14. Add UConn, Cincinnati, BYU Houston. On paper that is a pretty damn good football and basketball conference.
The current Big 12 payout is 25 million per team. In order to maintain those levels UConn, Cincinnati, BYU and Houston would have to add 100 million to the annual TV contract. Houston adds nothing because the Big 12 has a solid presence in that market which means the 100 million would have to come from adding UConn, Cincy, and BYU. Those teams don't have the juice to draw that kinda money. If you want to go that route UCF, USF, ECU, and Georgia Southern put you in much larger TV markets. But then again who wants to see an Kansas/ECU game.
If Brigham Young were to join the Big XII it would only be in football. As a Mormon I can tell you the church is adamantly opposed to playing on Sunday which means no to pretty much everything else. Actually a lot of Mormons feel you're not supposed to do anything on Sunday. However, it has become a intense argument at BYU about athletic teams playing on Sunday. They point out that a lot of Mormons especially professional athletes play on Sunday. Personally I would like to see them in the Big XII for all sports they certainly proved to Texas that they can play.
Well actually there are 8 million in the US. But I've never gotten the impression that BYU has the kind of intense following among Mormons. And I don't think ND has the kind of following among Catholics anymore.
I can't believe WV tried to pull that. there's no way they'll win in court. I know that lots of Mormons on scholarship that went on missions and the universities didn't take their schollys away.
A far back as 30-40 years. Not taken away, or not honored, I can't think of any that did.
And recently I read a study that listed Baylor as among the 10 most religious schools in the country. Correct me if I'm wrong diadevic but you still have to attend chapel your freshman year.
Also ND and BYU are on that list.
You know they wouldn't bring a lot of tv's to the Big XII but I wonder if Arkansas would come to the Big XII. They had rivalries with UT, TT, TCU, Baylor, and OSU. Geographically they'd be perfect. Those hillbillies really follow the razorbacks. And old timers would get reacquainted with how crude, rude, and obnoxious Arkansas fans are. And from a guy who has attended a lot of RRR, and UT/AR games the sooner fans are not that bad compared to AR. Bret Bielema would give me a coach I can't stand when TX plays them. For cowboy haters it might interest you to know that one of the most influential alums in AR fb is none other than Jerry Jones. But Frank Broyles engineered AR's defection from the SWC to the SEC and as long as he's alive he won't allow it. He may be in his 90's now but even now he still has an iron clad grip over AR athletics. But they would be a great addition if it can be pulled off.
Neither school made him choose anything...he chose that himself. He could have played at either school and then gone on a mission after..or before...or during spring break (lol)...just stop
Really? No neutral? So if one does not believe in a mythical cloud being then they are anti-religion. UT is a secular school, they did not force him to decide between whether to be believe in magic under wear or not..
secular:
adjective
1.
of or relating to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred
I know there are a few possible gambles that could work when it comes to Big 12 expansion, but it seems pretty clear to me that, if you're a "Big 12" fan, and not just a Texas fan, you should be pissed that the conference didn't go hard after ACC schools back before Notre Dame became a partial member and their new TV deals were signed. THAT was how to save the Big 12.
There were two pretty obvious ways things could have been handled: The Big 12 could have gone it alone and started chatting with the southern 4 ACC teams (and actually, Miami, despite its issues, would have been a good place to start given their market, the sense of uncertainty they had if the ACC had split, and their connection to Florida State that, given the current scheduling climate, would have been difficult to maintain had the two schools gone to different conferences). Or the Big 12 could have gone to the SEC and Big 10 and said, look guys, we ALL would love to add some of the ACC markets to our conferences. If we work together, there won't be much of an ACC left to prevent it from happening. Let's agree to going to 16 teams at most in the first round and there should be plenty of schools to go around for everyone, even if someone didn't get their first choices. If anyone really wanted to go beyond 16, there'd be plenty of opportunity after the fact.
The ultimate goal would have been to snag all 4 southern ACC teams to begin(Miami, FSU, Clemson, and Georgia Tech) but even 2 or 3 would have been a great start. Ideally, that would take the Big 12 to 14 teams, and give them the start of an Eastern division (with West Virginia... and, ultimately probably either TCU or Iowa State having to "take one for the team" and travel a bit further). Then you make the big gamble. With a less legitimate ACC (or no ACC at all, if the SEC did the smart thing and snagged Duke and UNC to add a state and bolster their Basketball product with the sport's biggest rivalry... and the Big 10 grabbed Virginia and... someone. Lots of great options...), Notre Dame would need a home. And since the ACC wouldn't be around to offer partial membership, they'd be looking at either the Pac 12 (which seems like the distance would bother even Notre Dame), the Big 10, or the Big 12. In many cases the Big 10 might win out, but given Notre Dame's desire to be a national team, not a regional one, the Big 12 (now in Texas, the midwest, the southeast, plus a couple of closer schools in ISU and WVU), plus not having a formalized plan for 3rd tier media rights yet (which means they could help shape the media deal more than they would in the Big 10) might be the more appealing option. Especially if the Big 12 opened up the 16th slot to let Notre Dame choose (within reason) who they'd want to add last... whether it be a traditional power like Virginia Tech, a nearby school like Louisville, a traditional rival like Pitt or Navy, or another big state like NC State.
Honestly, if the deal included adding FSU, Clemson, the Atlanta market, and Notre Dame, the last school could be almost anyone, and each of the options I listed above would come with some sort of benefit.
That's what should have happened. Or something similar.
As it is? I don't see the Big 12 prying anyone away from the SEC, Pac 12, Big 10, or ACC. At least not without help. But it would be up to one of the other conferences to rock the boat first, and I'm not sure that's happening in the immediate future. So, while the thoughts of getting Georgia Tech or Florida State or Arkansas or whoever are clearly appealing, I'm just not sure I see why it would happen unless something happened to destabilize the conference they'd be leaving.
Plenty of "fun" ideas out there as far as UConn or Houston or UCF or USF or Memphis or Tulane or Cincy or what have you, but they're all gambles at best and some, including Houston (who is probably one of the best group-of-5 expansion options for SOMEONE out there... the Pac 12 perhaps...) would be waving a white flag and saying that the Big 12, as a conference, just isn't going to compete financially with the rest and it will be up to Texas and other schools who can to keep themselves at a competitive level money-wise. As a Big 12 fan, you may want to take one of the gambles. As a Texas fan I don't know that I see a reason to stop the 10-team experiment yet, but when I do I think the answer will be leaving the Big 12 (and probably taking a few of the schools with us).
There were two pretty obvious ways things could have been handled: The Big 12 could have gone it alone and started chatting with the southern 4 ACC teams (and actually, Miami, despite its issues, would have been a good place to start given their market, the sense of uncertainty they had if the ACC had split, and their connection to Florida State that, given the current scheduling climate, would have been difficult to maintain had the two schools gone to different conferences). Or the Big 12 could have gone to the SEC and Big 10 and said, look guys, we ALL would love to add some of the ACC markets to our conferences. If we work together, there won't be much of an ACC left to prevent it from happening. Let's agree to going to 16 teams at most in the first round and there should be plenty of schools to go around for everyone, even if someone didn't get their first choices. If anyone really wanted to go beyond 16, there'd be plenty of opportunity after the fact.
The ultimate goal would have been to snag all 4 southern ACC teams to begin(Miami, FSU, Clemson, and Georgia Tech) but even 2 or 3 would have been a great start. Ideally, that would take the Big 12 to 14 teams, and give them the start of an Eastern division (with West Virginia... and, ultimately probably either TCU or Iowa State having to "take one for the team" and travel a bit further). Then you make the big gamble. With a less legitimate ACC (or no ACC at all, if the SEC did the smart thing and snagged Duke and UNC to add a state and bolster their Basketball product with the sport's biggest rivalry... and the Big 10 grabbed Virginia and... someone. Lots of great options...), Notre Dame would need a home. And since the ACC wouldn't be around to offer partial membership, they'd be looking at either the Pac 12 (which seems like the distance would bother even Notre Dame), the Big 10, or the Big 12. In many cases the Big 10 might win out, but given Notre Dame's desire to be a national team, not a regional one, the Big 12 (now in Texas, the midwest, the southeast, plus a couple of closer schools in ISU and WVU), plus not having a formalized plan for 3rd tier media rights yet (which means they could help shape the media deal more than they would in the Big 10) might be the more appealing option. Especially if the Big 12 opened up the 16th slot to let Notre Dame choose (within reason) who they'd want to add last... whether it be a traditional power like Virginia Tech, a nearby school like Louisville, a traditional rival like Pitt or Navy, or another big state like NC State.
Honestly, if the deal included adding FSU, Clemson, the Atlanta market, and Notre Dame, the last school could be almost anyone, and each of the options I listed above would come with some sort of benefit.
That's what should have happened. Or something similar.
As it is? I don't see the Big 12 prying anyone away from the SEC, Pac 12, Big 10, or ACC. At least not without help. But it would be up to one of the other conferences to rock the boat first, and I'm not sure that's happening in the immediate future. So, while the thoughts of getting Georgia Tech or Florida State or Arkansas or whoever are clearly appealing, I'm just not sure I see why it would happen unless something happened to destabilize the conference they'd be leaving.
Plenty of "fun" ideas out there as far as UConn or Houston or UCF or USF or Memphis or Tulane or Cincy or what have you, but they're all gambles at best and some, including Houston (who is probably one of the best group-of-5 expansion options for SOMEONE out there... the Pac 12 perhaps...) would be waving a white flag and saying that the Big 12, as a conference, just isn't going to compete financially with the rest and it will be up to Texas and other schools who can to keep themselves at a competitive level money-wise. As a Big 12 fan, you may want to take one of the gambles. As a Texas fan I don't know that I see a reason to stop the 10-team experiment yet, but when I do I think the answer will be leaving the Big 12 (and probably taking a few of the schools with us).
The thing is right now the teams being discussed the best we could hope for is to break even and that would only be the case if the teams added made a bowl, and the NCAA tournament. If you really want to go to 14 the only logical thing I can think of is punting WV and going after Arizona, ASU, UNM, Utah and Colorado, That gives you a fairly compact geographical area that can help with travel expenses for non revenue sports, Phoenix, Denver, Salt Lake City and some built in rivalries
That's an interesting idea... although I'm not sure I've seen much evidence that the Pac 12 is terribly vulnerable? Maybe though...? Still, that looks almost exactly like the division that Texas, Tech, OU, and OSU would have joined if they became part of the Pac 12. Yeah, the other division is a bit further out, but there are going to be more games in almost any sport against the closer teams... every sport we play in we play plenty of games in other time zones already. A shift to playing the Pac 12 would probably mean that less of our OOC games would be west coast games and more would be Texas or neighboring teams, so, it might work out to be a wash anyway. Plus, I believe that part of Colorado's rationale for leaving the Big 12 was that they felt more of their alumni moved to and more of their recruits came from California than Texas. And, while any conference would be happy to add conference games in Texas, I'm not sure that the Arizona schools or Colorado would be willing to totally give up Cali in exchange.
Still think the Pac 16 plan (with our division being the central and mountain teams) is the least complicated of the changes that could happen (at least from Texas' perspective) that seems pretty doable.
