Yeah they made it virtually impossible to get out after all the realignment I think there was a time where that was an option. The big 12 let it pass by. Although perhaps if the schools and conferences agreed to pay the sums together maybe it's possible, but your right the idea has past most likely.
Thought provoking article on the horizon for the BigXII and possible growth
- Thread starter jsto60
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UConn would be my first choice. The Only downside to UConn is they are not the best football program right now but it is a young and promising football program plus they have A+ men's basketball A+ women's basketball and the New York/New England TV market. Cincinnati brings a good basketball program and a solid football program and also adds Ohio recruiting with a Big12 footprint. You also get the Cincinnati/Ohio TV market. These two both have negative issues but the positives outweigh them IMO. Two reasons that both these two schools would be great additions are 1. A conference championship game generates more revenue for all eventually. 2. With Big12 revenue these schools would flourish. It won't happen overnight but going from 7-8 million in revenue to 25-30 million would put both these schools at the level the Big12 needs them. It also enables East/West divisions and WVU is no longer geographically isolated.
One more thing I think the smart thing for the Big12 to do is not be satisfied with 12. Go to 14. Add UConn, Cincinnati, BYU Houston. On paper that is a pretty damn good football and basketball conference.
The current Big 12 payout is 25 million per team. In order to maintain those levels UConn, Cincinnati, BYU and Houston would have to add 100 million to the annual TV contract. Houston adds nothing because the Big 12 has a solid presence in that market which means the 100 million would have to come from adding UConn, Cincy, and BYU. Those teams don't have the juice to draw that kinda money. If you want to go that route UCF, USF, ECU, and Georgia Southern put you in much larger TV markets. But then again who wants to see an Kansas/ECU game.
If Brigham Young were to join the Big XII it would only be in football. As a Mormon I can tell you the church is adamantly opposed to playing on Sunday which means no to pretty much everything else. Actually a lot of Mormons feel you're not supposed to do anything on Sunday. However, it has become a intense argument at BYU about athletic teams playing on Sunday. They point out that a lot of Mormons especially professional athletes play on Sunday. Personally I would like to see them in the Big XII for all sports they certainly proved to Texas that they can play.
Well actually there are 8 million in the US. But I've never gotten the impression that BYU has the kind of intense following among Mormons. And I don't think ND has the kind of following among Catholics anymore.
I can't believe WV tried to pull that. there's no way they'll win in court. I know that lots of Mormons on scholarship that went on missions and the universities didn't take their schollys away.
A far back as 30-40 years. Not taken away, or not honored, I can't think of any that did.
And recently I read a study that listed Baylor as among the 10 most religious schools in the country. Correct me if I'm wrong diadevic but you still have to attend chapel your freshman year.
Also ND and BYU are on that list.
You know they wouldn't bring a lot of tv's to the Big XII but I wonder if Arkansas would come to the Big XII. They had rivalries with UT, TT, TCU, Baylor, and OSU. Geographically they'd be perfect. Those hillbillies really follow the razorbacks. And old timers would get reacquainted with how crude, rude, and obnoxious Arkansas fans are. And from a guy who has attended a lot of RRR, and UT/AR games the sooner fans are not that bad compared to AR. Bret Bielema would give me a coach I can't stand when TX plays them. For cowboy haters it might interest you to know that one of the most influential alums in AR fb is none other than Jerry Jones. But Frank Broyles engineered AR's defection from the SWC to the SEC and as long as he's alive he won't allow it. He may be in his 90's now but even now he still has an iron clad grip over AR athletics. But they would be a great addition if it can be pulled off.
Neither school made him choose anything...he chose that himself. He could have played at either school and then gone on a mission after..or before...or during spring break (lol)...just stop
Really? No neutral? So if one does not believe in a mythical cloud being then they are anti-religion. UT is a secular school, they did not force him to decide between whether to be believe in magic under wear or not..
secular:
adjective
1.
of or relating to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred
I know there are a few possible gambles that could work when it comes to Big 12 expansion, but it seems pretty clear to me that, if you're a "Big 12" fan, and not just a Texas fan, you should be pissed that the conference didn't go hard after ACC schools back before Notre Dame became a partial member and their new TV deals were signed. THAT was how to save the Big 12.
There were two pretty obvious ways things could have been handled: The Big 12 could have gone it alone and started chatting with the southern 4 ACC teams (and actually, Miami, despite its issues, would have been a good place to start given their market, the sense of uncertainty they had if the ACC had split, and their connection to Florida State that, given the current scheduling climate, would have been difficult to maintain had the two schools gone to different conferences). Or the Big 12 could have gone to the SEC and Big 10 and said, look guys, we ALL would love to add some of the ACC markets to our conferences. If we work together, there won't be much of an ACC left to prevent it from happening. Let's agree to going to 16 teams at most in the first round and there should be plenty of schools to go around for everyone, even if someone didn't get their first choices. If anyone really wanted to go beyond 16, there'd be plenty of opportunity after the fact.
The ultimate goal would have been to snag all 4 southern ACC teams to begin(Miami, FSU, Clemson, and Georgia Tech) but even 2 or 3 would have been a great start. Ideally, that would take the Big 12 to 14 teams, and give them the start of an Eastern division (with West Virginia... and, ultimately probably either TCU or Iowa State having to "take one for the team" and travel a bit further). Then you make the big gamble. With a less legitimate ACC (or no ACC at all, if the SEC did the smart thing and snagged Duke and UNC to add a state and bolster their Basketball product with the sport's biggest rivalry... and the Big 10 grabbed Virginia and... someone. Lots of great options...), Notre Dame would need a home. And since the ACC wouldn't be around to offer partial membership, they'd be looking at either the Pac 12 (which seems like the distance would bother even Notre Dame), the Big 10, or the Big 12. In many cases the Big 10 might win out, but given Notre Dame's desire to be a national team, not a regional one, the Big 12 (now in Texas, the midwest, the southeast, plus a couple of closer schools in ISU and WVU), plus not having a formalized plan for 3rd tier media rights yet (which means they could help shape the media deal more than they would in the Big 10) might be the more appealing option. Especially if the Big 12 opened up the 16th slot to let Notre Dame choose (within reason) who they'd want to add last... whether it be a traditional power like Virginia Tech, a nearby school like Louisville, a traditional rival like Pitt or Navy, or another big state like NC State.
Honestly, if the deal included adding FSU, Clemson, the Atlanta market, and Notre Dame, the last school could be almost anyone, and each of the options I listed above would come with some sort of benefit.
That's what should have happened. Or something similar.
As it is? I don't see the Big 12 prying anyone away from the SEC, Pac 12, Big 10, or ACC. At least not without help. But it would be up to one of the other conferences to rock the boat first, and I'm not sure that's happening in the immediate future. So, while the thoughts of getting Georgia Tech or Florida State or Arkansas or whoever are clearly appealing, I'm just not sure I see why it would happen unless something happened to destabilize the conference they'd be leaving.
Plenty of "fun" ideas out there as far as UConn or Houston or UCF or USF or Memphis or Tulane or Cincy or what have you, but they're all gambles at best and some, including Houston (who is probably one of the best group-of-5 expansion options for SOMEONE out there... the Pac 12 perhaps...) would be waving a white flag and saying that the Big 12, as a conference, just isn't going to compete financially with the rest and it will be up to Texas and other schools who can to keep themselves at a competitive level money-wise. As a Big 12 fan, you may want to take one of the gambles. As a Texas fan I don't know that I see a reason to stop the 10-team experiment yet, but when I do I think the answer will be leaving the Big 12 (and probably taking a few of the schools with us).
There were two pretty obvious ways things could have been handled: The Big 12 could have gone it alone and started chatting with the southern 4 ACC teams (and actually, Miami, despite its issues, would have been a good place to start given their market, the sense of uncertainty they had if the ACC had split, and their connection to Florida State that, given the current scheduling climate, would have been difficult to maintain had the two schools gone to different conferences). Or the Big 12 could have gone to the SEC and Big 10 and said, look guys, we ALL would love to add some of the ACC markets to our conferences. If we work together, there won't be much of an ACC left to prevent it from happening. Let's agree to going to 16 teams at most in the first round and there should be plenty of schools to go around for everyone, even if someone didn't get their first choices. If anyone really wanted to go beyond 16, there'd be plenty of opportunity after the fact.
The ultimate goal would have been to snag all 4 southern ACC teams to begin(Miami, FSU, Clemson, and Georgia Tech) but even 2 or 3 would have been a great start. Ideally, that would take the Big 12 to 14 teams, and give them the start of an Eastern division (with West Virginia... and, ultimately probably either TCU or Iowa State having to "take one for the team" and travel a bit further). Then you make the big gamble. With a less legitimate ACC (or no ACC at all, if the SEC did the smart thing and snagged Duke and UNC to add a state and bolster their Basketball product with the sport's biggest rivalry... and the Big 10 grabbed Virginia and... someone. Lots of great options...), Notre Dame would need a home. And since the ACC wouldn't be around to offer partial membership, they'd be looking at either the Pac 12 (which seems like the distance would bother even Notre Dame), the Big 10, or the Big 12. In many cases the Big 10 might win out, but given Notre Dame's desire to be a national team, not a regional one, the Big 12 (now in Texas, the midwest, the southeast, plus a couple of closer schools in ISU and WVU), plus not having a formalized plan for 3rd tier media rights yet (which means they could help shape the media deal more than they would in the Big 10) might be the more appealing option. Especially if the Big 12 opened up the 16th slot to let Notre Dame choose (within reason) who they'd want to add last... whether it be a traditional power like Virginia Tech, a nearby school like Louisville, a traditional rival like Pitt or Navy, or another big state like NC State.
Honestly, if the deal included adding FSU, Clemson, the Atlanta market, and Notre Dame, the last school could be almost anyone, and each of the options I listed above would come with some sort of benefit.
That's what should have happened. Or something similar.
As it is? I don't see the Big 12 prying anyone away from the SEC, Pac 12, Big 10, or ACC. At least not without help. But it would be up to one of the other conferences to rock the boat first, and I'm not sure that's happening in the immediate future. So, while the thoughts of getting Georgia Tech or Florida State or Arkansas or whoever are clearly appealing, I'm just not sure I see why it would happen unless something happened to destabilize the conference they'd be leaving.
Plenty of "fun" ideas out there as far as UConn or Houston or UCF or USF or Memphis or Tulane or Cincy or what have you, but they're all gambles at best and some, including Houston (who is probably one of the best group-of-5 expansion options for SOMEONE out there... the Pac 12 perhaps...) would be waving a white flag and saying that the Big 12, as a conference, just isn't going to compete financially with the rest and it will be up to Texas and other schools who can to keep themselves at a competitive level money-wise. As a Big 12 fan, you may want to take one of the gambles. As a Texas fan I don't know that I see a reason to stop the 10-team experiment yet, but when I do I think the answer will be leaving the Big 12 (and probably taking a few of the schools with us).
The thing is right now the teams being discussed the best we could hope for is to break even and that would only be the case if the teams added made a bowl, and the NCAA tournament. If you really want to go to 14 the only logical thing I can think of is punting WV and going after Arizona, ASU, UNM, Utah and Colorado, That gives you a fairly compact geographical area that can help with travel expenses for non revenue sports, Phoenix, Denver, Salt Lake City and some built in rivalries
That's an interesting idea... although I'm not sure I've seen much evidence that the Pac 12 is terribly vulnerable? Maybe though...? Still, that looks almost exactly like the division that Texas, Tech, OU, and OSU would have joined if they became part of the Pac 12. Yeah, the other division is a bit further out, but there are going to be more games in almost any sport against the closer teams... every sport we play in we play plenty of games in other time zones already. A shift to playing the Pac 12 would probably mean that less of our OOC games would be west coast games and more would be Texas or neighboring teams, so, it might work out to be a wash anyway. Plus, I believe that part of Colorado's rationale for leaving the Big 12 was that they felt more of their alumni moved to and more of their recruits came from California than Texas. And, while any conference would be happy to add conference games in Texas, I'm not sure that the Arizona schools or Colorado would be willing to totally give up Cali in exchange.
Still think the Pac 16 plan (with our division being the central and mountain teams) is the least complicated of the changes that could happen (at least from Texas' perspective) that seems pretty doable.
It wont happen but that is the only real way to add value to the current contract. Big time schools in big markets no more than 1 time zone away that are not in the current Big IX footprint. None of those schools are going to move so just stay at 10.
I agree. There are lots of theories that some smaller schools in big markets might work if you got enough of them (like 14, and include one or both of UCF/USF, Memphis, Cincy, etc), but ultimately everything would have to work perfectly, including almost all of the schools involved taking huge steps up rather quickly after joining the conference. And things almost never go perfectly. I think an attempt like that would just speed up OU and or Texas pulling the trigger (or someone else in anticipation of that) and the Big 12 going its separate ways. From the Big 12's perspective, if they can't pull off a miracle with who they get, then staying at 10 teams is the best bet... and ironically for a school like Houston, who'd love to get an invitation, their invitation would also likely the first domino that leads to, again, either OU or Texas pulling the trigger and leaving.
All of that said, from a Texas perspective (rather than a Big 12 perspective), I'm not sure that the Big 12 has a very long shelf life no matter what. Not because it's weaker team-wise or anything like that, but because ultimately it's the major conference where teams would currently strongly consider accepting an invitation to various other conferences, and because of the relatively small and difficult-to-expand footprint. Oh, and OU botching its appearance in the playoff (after the Big 12 was left out last year) didn't help. That's another reason why it's important that the Big 12 keeps scheduling tough OOC opponents.
If that's the consideration, it won't happen. There isn't a way to add value to the current contract. It's locked in due to the expansion clause. David Boren and Bob Bowlsby both mentioned this during the summer.
It is not good enough that you don't believe in God. You have to let everyone know they are mistaken and they believe in "a mythical sky being"..
I also would bet you hate when a Believer tries to talk to you about Christ....but you don't mind telling everyone what you believe.
Well since you brought it up. People that believe that the Earth, stars and universe were just...here...doesn't make since to us. Life can't be created out of nothing. Don't believe me .. Blow up all the rocks you want and it will not create 1 life. There has even been mathematical odds done on this. Look it up.
I don't go to church and even I can look at your comments here and see you do have a personal agenda at play. I thought the whole point of defining what is offensive to someone is that it is determined by the person being offended, not to someone outside to determine whether they have the right to be offended. You obviously have previously given thought to this concept to readily bring up a topic that you have issue with. Doesn't sound like a person who is tolerant and accepting of all to me.
Now I agree, every time something doesn't go someone's way, it absolutely does not mean bigotry was at play. People in general nowadays look for reasons to be offended. Everyone wants everyone else to be tolerant of their choices, but they do not reciprocate the tolerance.
Maybe the guy's friend wasn't good enough, as you said, and that is the reason he didn't have a scholarship. It seems to me it all worked out for everyone in the end, so why continue to dwell on it. And you are right, one instance, whether true or not, should not be indicative of UT's endorsement or aversion to Mormon religion/practices.
As for teams that are candidates for inclusion into the B12, I think the two best options out there are Boise and BYU. Bring them both in for football only, and BYU's secondary sports won't be an issue. Travel concerns would also be minimized by not having to send minor sports teams to their campus.
As a WVU fan, the last thing I want to do is bring in Cincy or a school in Florida that we are going to have to compete with for recruits. So in general, having a close travel partner is not that big of an issue for WVU. With 12 teams, we would have a minimum of 4 home conference games each year, and we can schedule 2 home non conference games to give us at least 6 home games each year. Every other year, when we have 5 home conference games, we should have 7 home games. Travel is not the issue people make it out to be.
The other, next best option for the B12 in terms of expansion would be to grow to 14 by bringing in BYU, Army, Navy and Air Force. All four are nationally known programs, and are appealing to TV. It puts the B12 in some big markets/states in Salt Lake City, D.C./Baltimore, Colorado(Denver), and New York State. It gives WVU two close programs in Army and Navy for easy travel if for some reason WVU does insist on travel partners. And we(the B12) would not be directly recruiting against Army, Navy or Air Force because they are looking at a different type of candidate/athlete. I would much rather watch a game where WVU is playing Navy or Air Force than to watch them play East Carolina or South Florida. And games at historic venues like West Point or Annapolis are more appealing than games at Cincinnati or Memphis.
That's not nice. Where do you propose OU goes?
Are you the type of person that put in their 2 weeks notice because they bought a losing lotto ticket today?
Not true. But don't let facts get in the way of your hatred.
You do know that OU has their own TV network as well????
So this thread is about the conf adding teams. Not OU running away because they can't make it solely an OU/UT battle like it was to win conference.
Why? The Big XII got you into the playoffs this year with a loss. You blew it of course per usual but the conference wasn't the problem.
To be honest, I still feel like any team in the Big 12 who hasn't at least looked into what their next stop would be isn't being smart. Not saying it's time for anyone to pull the trigger, but I think that it, eventually, will be either UT or OU (or both together) that blow it all up. I don't think there's an immediate rush, but I think the odds of the Big 12 expanding with most of the teams being tossed out here without also losing one of Texas or OU (and then likely losing the other quickly after) aren't very good. The expansion would have to work out to the most ideal extent possible given the teams that are available to not lead to a step backwards in money (and that would include the TV networks just agreeing to change the contracts even though they don't need to). Seems likely that the conference will stick with 10 for now and then eventually split up (maybe around 2024-2025 when the current TV contracts expire if nothing leads to it happening sooner). OU seems a bit more likely than Texas to pull the trigger at this point... though Texas is going through more changes than OU in our athletic department, so that's always a wildcard.
$ec, put OU in the east they should also get Kansas. I know Kansas sucks in football but the $ec wants to get better in basketball and that will help them a lot. Because of the crappy bowl record the Big 12 is viewed at the 4th best conference and will be hard to shake this unless they win a national title
A) Link?
B) I see you're still ignoring the fact that you got into the 4-team playoffs with a loss on your schedule this year in the Big XII.
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