Uvalde-- we've got to do something

[2300 Nueces]

This was a massive f*$k up by law enforcement. Everything is on camera and as more and more stuff comes out there are going to be some major issues in the active shooter response.


It doesn't appear that anyone was looking for him until he crashed his truck? Ok, so what caused the truck crash? I looked at some google images and the street view and I think he was trying to use his truck to crash through the fence to school. The ditch is next to the fence and is hard to judge the depth from the road. It looks like he just flew off the road into the ditch through a little gap and broke the suspension. People called 911 because of the very loud crash.

The shooter then went either over a fence or through a gate to the back door of the 4th grade wing of the building. He was confronted by an armed SRO who backed off. There is video of the encounter being released and it doesn't appear like the SRO has fired a shot.

The remaining timeline hasn't been shared yet but it appears as though they waited 40 to 60 minutes for the tactical team to enter the classroom and neutralize the shooter. That was the pre Columbine play book. How do I know that. Well my first year teaching was 2000. During teacher in-service our SRO had just gone through the new active shooter training and went step by step what he would do based on shooter location. He told us the new training was to engage the shooter as quickly as possible. He told us where he would be coming from and what to expect. That didn't happen at Uvalde.

Over 120 federal law enforcement on the scene. That's great but how many of them were trained on what to do in an active school shooting? Probably none. They were using a different playbook. Isolate the shooter get everyone out then go in with the tactical team.

The other problem is no one knows who was in charge? There was probably the Sherriff, city PD, and all of the different DHS people. Who was coordinating this. We really don't know because the briefings are coming from politicians and not Law Enforcement.

Solid work.

 

[JDCPAgolferHorn]

The response appears to have been really screwed up. Once the investigation is completed, it may show that law enforcement and school district were afraid to engage and woefully unprepared.

Videos are beginning to appear of sobbing parents gathered outside of the school pleading for LE to enter the school and neutralize the shooter.

 

[Drtxhorn]

Videos are beginning to appear of sobbing parents gathered outside of the school pleading for LE to enter the school and neutralize the shooter.

After this is all sorted out, the families of all the victims will likely get a pretty big check from someone.

 

[Hoookem722]

So it sounds like they could have spared a few lives had they entered more quickly? That's the way i'm reading and understanding.

 

[TX1972]

Sounds like that gay nightclub in Florida, doesn't it? Brave SWAT officers waiting for it to be safe to enter. Not like executing a no knock raid in the middle of the night.

 

[clob94]

This was a massive f*$k up by law enforcement. Everything is on camera and as more and more stuff comes out there are going to be some major issues in the active shooter response.


It doesn't appear that anyone was looking for him until he crashed his truck? Ok, so what caused the truck crash? I looked at some google images and the street view and I think he was trying to use his truck to crash through the fence to school. The ditch is next to the fence and is hard to judge the depth from the road. It looks like he just flew off the road into the ditch through a little gap and broke the suspension. People called 911 because of the very loud crash.

The shooter then went either over a fence or through a gate to the back door of the 4th grade wing of the building. He was confronted by an armed SRO who backed off. There is video of the encounter being released and it doesn't appear like the SRO has fired a shot.

The remaining timeline hasn't been shared yet but it appears as though they waited 40 to 60 minutes for the tactical team to enter the classroom and neutralize the shooter. That was the pre Columbine play book. How do I know that. Well my first year teaching was 2000. During teacher in-service our SRO had just gone through the new active shooter training and went step by step what he would do based on shooter location. He told us the new training was to engage the shooter as quickly as possible. He told us where he would be coming from and what to expect. That didn't happen at Uvalde.

Over 120 federal law enforcement on the scene. That's great but how many of them were trained on what to do in an active school shooting? Probably none. They were using a different playbook. Isolate the shooter get everyone out then go in with the tactical team.

The other problem is no one knows who was in charge? There was probably the Sherriff, city PD, and all of the different DHS people. Who was coordinating this. We really don't know because the briefings are coming from politicians and not Law Enforcement.

There's going to be more coming out. Uvalde police are not going to be cast in a good light.

 

[DHHorn]

There's going to be more coming out. Uvalde police are not going to be cast in a good light.

So right now it sounds like they saw him approaching the school with an AR and confronted him. He fired at them, they retreated and called for back up (may have fired at him). He entered the building and locked himself in a classroom. The police "contained" him to one room (he really contained himself) and waited for a key to unlock the door. Is this about right?

 

[jah4550]

1) The NRA isn't anywhere near as powerful as the big left voices would lead you to believe. Their funding pales in comparison to tech, pharmaceutical, PACs, unions ect...

2) Who gives 2 chits what the NRA thinks or says

3) Please define an assault rife and then explain how it functionally differs from a common "deer hunting rifle" ........you can't.

4) other than banning belt fed systems, what would you propose as a "common sense" magazine capacity limit? (clips hold paper together) 6? 10? So adding about 2-5seconds on amateur reload time change how easy it is to shoot fish in a gun free zone? I give you a 100rd drum and I get 10x10 in a target comp....I win every time. Spray and pray is VERY inaccurate and ineffective after 2nd rd. 1:1 is much more accurate, therefore lethal....fact

5) Any 2nd amendment limiting argument is a very weak one. Read the amendment again, commas are VERY important here. Now, read supporting documents. The founders were asked in writing on account of piracy if 2a included cannons and were written back absolutely! Anything an enemy would have, the people should have as well.
We both wouldn't want rich neighbor Jimmy to have a mil grade plutonium enrichment facility in his back yard so we all agreed to "common sense restrictions" and here we are now arguing about pistol grips, bump stocks & more than 7-10rd mags.

Added note: 2a has absolutely nothing to do with hunting animals....zero.

6) We're giving billions to Ukraine to buy guns to protect themselves. Last taxpayer funded check was $40b+. That alone would have been enough to fund EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL in America around $440,000 each towards security.
That's enough to hire fully trained and qualified armed security, not a rent a gate guard with 911 on speed dial.
I sure as hell would feel a shitton better knowing murderous assholes had to walk past a few guns before engaging our most innocent and precious children instead of having 30mins of defenseless target practice before good guy with gun stops it from being worse. Good guns would absolutely be wat more effective in initial deterrence and more rapid response to limit the evil instead of a damn gun free zone sign.

7) maybe let's agree that ensuring little Jimmy can be called Amy, fed puberty blockers, and take a crap in the girls room isn't quite as important and protecting ALL children's lives. The priorities are all f-ing backwards. All this indoctrination thrown at developing children is causing irreparable harm. The evidence is right in our faces if everyone would only allow themselves to see beyond political BS.
Maybe then and only then can we actually curtail school massacres.

Your questions:
1) Arguing the NRA and the gun lobbies aren't powerful seems patentably false. When they say jump, Republican law makers ask how hi. If they aren't influencial, why does every important Republican try to take pics with Wayne Lapierre?

2) See answer to 1). If NRA is influential, then we do care what they think.

3) Deer rifle - 30-06 or 30-30 caliber rounds, typically 3-5 round capacity
AR-15 - .223 caliber, magazines can hold up to 100 rounds though most high capacity magazines don't hold this amount.

And the question and answer to 3) is my whole point. Most of these mass shootings would result in far lower numbers of dead and injured if the perpetrator didn't have assault rifles with high capacity magazines.
Think about that shooter in Vegas at the concert a few years ago. Over 50 dead. Multiple high capacity magazines and assault rifles.

My opinion is that, at a minimum, we should have some restrictions. Perhaps a special vetting before someone is allowed to go purchase these guns that can do so much damage. Or perhaps a limit on magazine sizes without a special license.

In the last two weeks, we have had two 18 year old kids with undeveloped frontal lobes go buy assault rifles and then attack innocent people. The one in Uvalde had superior firepower and protection to the armed guards and was able to shoot them and then enter the school. These ARs with high count magazines are simply too easy to get. As long as we don't limit access to these weapons, we will continue to have mass shootings with higher numbers of casualties. If we don't reduce access to ARs with high capacity magazines, we will have many deaths, including children, that could have been avoided.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

3) Deer rifle - 30-06 or 30-30 caliber rounds, typically 3-5 round capacity
AR-15 - .223 caliber, magazines can hold up to 100 rounds though most high capacity magazines don't hold this amount.

Man, I respect your position because it seems to come from a more reasonable place than what is spewed from most that blame guns for deaths.

I personally hunt with a 30-06 that was handed down from my father. It came with a 5rd mag but can just as easily accept whatever you have just like the evil AR platform. Banning the varmint hunting .223/ 5.56 round will accomplish nothing except pissing people off and the mass migration to another platform where this cycle of demonizing an inanimate tool starts over and over and over.

The thing is, none of what I typed even matters because our 2A has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It is 100% about preventing this country from becoming what our founders left.
We've had it good for soo long that most Americans have no idea how easily our way of living and basic freedoms can and certainly will disappear in an instant if there's no deterrence or ability to resist.
I do. I've seen it all too intimately. I bear physical scars from opposing it for others.

I have no problem with a more in depth evaluation for a 1st time purchaser but the whole expand background checks talking point is stupid. Under no circumstances are you able to legally purchase a firearm without undergoing a fed check. Yes, even at gun shows. That ship sailed many years ago.

For me, it's forced single entry point with qualified armed guard for every school that does nothing but security...period. Nothing else will have more impact on school safety than that. Ban a type of rifle and something else will replace it.

94% of ALL mass shootings are in gun free zones. Of those shootings, only 4-5% are via a long rifle (All rifles to include ar styles)

Why focus on 4% instead of 94%? Because that's what they tell you.

Also, you still haven't differentiated an assault rifle from any other rifle. Please, use Google to help and you'll see how wrong that term really is.

 

[2300 Nueces]

Man, I respect your position because it seems to come from a more reasonable place than what is spewed from most that blame guns for deaths.

I personally hunt with a 30-06 that was handed down from my father. It came with a 5rd mag but can just as easily accept whatever you have just like the evil AR platform. Banning the varmint hunting .223/ 5.56 round will accomplish nothing except pissing people off and the mass migration to another platform where this cycle of demonizing an inanimate tool starts over and over and over.

The thing is, none of what I typed even matters because our 2A has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It is 100% about preventing this country from becoming what our founders left.
We've had it good for soo long that most Americans have no idea how easily our way of living and basic freedoms can and certainly will disappear in an instant if there's no deterrence or ability to resist.
I do. I've seen it all too intimately. I bear physical scars from opposing it for others.

I have no problem with a more in depth evaluation for a 1st time purchaser but the whole expand background checks talking point is stupid. Under no circumstances are you able to legally purchase a firearm without undergoing a fed check. Yes, even at gun shows. That ship sailed many years ago.

For me, it's forced single entry point with qualified armed guard for every school that does nothing but security...period. Nothing else will have more impact on school safety than that. Ban a type of rifle and something else will replace it.

94% of ALL mass shootings are in gun free zones. Of those shootings, only 4-5% are via a long rifle (All rifles to include ar styles)

Why focus on 4% instead of 94%? Because that's what they tell you.

Also, you still haven't differentiated an assault rifle from any other rifle. Please, use Google to help and you'll see how wrong that term really is.

I've been ridiculed on this forum for saying this very thing. Fresh, next they will be telling you that a semi-automatic rifle is useless against a tank and that we would not stand a chance against our own government so we should give them up. They have no concept of asymmetric warfare or fear of our government unless Orangeman is the president.

 

[oldhorn2]

from what I have seen it looks bad for the police in Uvalde. As soon as I am able I will get the truth from the DPS. As I may have said before, my son was one of if not the leading DPS instructor in teaching police around the country how to handle this very situation. He told me that they were teaching that whichever police was first on the scene, they were to try by any means possible to gain entry to the building where the shooter was and take him/her(or non binary) out if possible. They were to wait for no one even if they were alone. The idea was that the police were armed and trained and the people inside were neither.

Because of this I am stunned from the reports I have read. I will let y'all in on what he tells me. Especially why the cops sat around with their thumbs up their ass.

 

[clob94]

from what I have seen it looks bad for the police in Uvalde. As soon as I am able I will get the truth from the DPS. As I may have said before, my son was one of if not the leading DPS instructor in teaching police around the country how to handle this very situation. He told me that they were teaching that whichever police was first on the scene, they were to try by any means possible to gain entry to the building where the shooter was and take him/her(or non binary) out if possible. They were to wait for no one even if they were alone. The idea was that the police were armed and trained and the people inside were neither.

Because of this I am stunned from the reports I have read. I will let y'all in on what he tells me. Especially why the cops sat around with their thumbs up their ass.

The guy that shot him was a BORTAC officer that lived a few blocks behind the school.

This will not end up looking good for Uvalde police.

 

[Drtxhorn]

Man, I respect your position because it seems to come from a more reasonable place than what is spewed from most that blame guns for deaths.

I personally hunt with a 30-06 that was handed down from my father. It came with a 5rd mag but can just as easily accept whatever you have just like the evil AR platform. Banning the varmint hunting .223/ 5.56 round will accomplish nothing except pissing people off and the mass migration to another platform where this cycle of demonizing an inanimate tool starts over and over and over.

The thing is, none of what I typed even matters because our 2A has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It is 100% about preventing this country from becoming what our founders left.
We've had it good for soo long that most Americans have no idea how easily our way of living and basic freedoms can and certainly will disappear in an instant if there's no deterrence or ability to resist.
I do. I've seen it all too intimately. I bear physical scars from opposing it for others.

I have no problem with a more in depth evaluation for a 1st time purchaser but the whole expand background checks talking point is stupid. Under no circumstances are you able to legally purchase a firearm without undergoing a fed check. Yes, even at gun shows. That ship sailed many years ago.

For me, it's forced single entry point with qualified armed guard for every school that does nothing but security...period. Nothing else will have more impact on school safety than that. Ban a type of rifle and something else will replace it.

94% of ALL mass shootings are in gun free zones. Of those shootings, only 4-5% are via a long rifle (All rifles to include ar styles)

Why focus on 4% instead of 94%? Because that's what they tell you.

Also, you still haven't differentiated an assault rifle from any other rifle. Please, use Google to help and you'll see how wrong that term really is.

The fact there are so many schools without multiple armed security officers is unconscionable to me. I was visiting my daughter over last weekend and went to a very nice shopping center with a Louis Vuitton store. That store had two armed security guards there to protect a bunch of fvcking handbags!

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

I've been ridiculed on this forum for saying this very thing. Fresh, next they will be telling you that a semi-automatic rifle is useless against a tank and that we would not stand a chance against our own government so we should give them up. They have no concept of asymmetric warfare or fear of our government unless Orangeman is the president.

Yeah, we're all frustrated and venting a bit here but I doubt anyone thinks they're going to change anyone else's opinion in this forum.

It just kills me knowing how easily we can fix most everything if we weren't so politically tribalistic in a 2 worthless party system.

I prefer a very pragmatic approach to solving problems starting where we can make the most gains in step 1.
It's the whole sinking ship analogy, ya know. Plug the damn hole before you worry about bailing water.

We know more gun laws do nothing because it's been done in NY, California, Colorado, Illinois.... and we have factual stats showing beyond any doubt they had the opposite effect on violent gun crime.

But noooo, we always come back to arguing the same dumb things and once again, nothing gets done. We can't completely stop all crazies from killing people but we can damn sure kill most of them before they get inside our schools.

 

[Drtxhorn]

Yeah, we're all frustrated and venting a bit here but I doubt anyone thinks they're going to change anyone else's opinion in this forum.

It just kills me knowing how easily we can fix most everything if we weren't so politically tribalistic in a 2 worthless party system.

I prefer a very pragmatic approach to solving problems starting where we can make the most gains in step 1.
It's the whole sinking ship analogy, ya know. Plug the damn hole before you worry about bailing water.

We know more gun laws do nothing because it's been done in NY, California, Colorado, Illinois.... and we have factual stats showing beyond any doubt they had the opposite effect on violent gun crime.

But noooo, we always come back to arguing the same dumb things and once again, nothing gets done. We can't completely stop all crazies from killing people but we can damn sure kill most of them before they get inside our schools.

Well said. We have a people problem and social problem not a gun problem.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

The fact there are so many schools without multiple armed security officers is unconscionable to me. I was visiting my daughter over last weekend and went to a very nice shopping center with a Louis Vuitton store. That store had two armed security guards there to protect a bunch of fvcking handbags!

Exactly. We all hate taxes but by God I don't think there's a district in this country where people wouldn't pass a .02c sales tax hike to permanently protect our children in school.

 

[clob94]

Your questions:
1) Arguing the NRA and the gun lobbies aren't powerful seems patentably false. When they say jump, Republican law makers ask how hi. If they aren't influencial, why does every important Republican try to take pics with Wayne Lapierre?

2) See answer to 1). If NRA is influential, then we do care what they think.

3) Deer rifle - 30-06 or 30-30 caliber rounds, typically 3-5 round capacity
AR-15 - .223 caliber, magazines can hold up to 100 rounds though most high capacity magazines don't hold this amount.

And the question and answer to 3) is my whole point. Most of these mass shootings would result in far lower numbers of dead and injured if the perpetrator didn't have assault rifles with high capacity magazines.
Think about that shooter in Vegas at the concert a few years ago. Over 50 dead. Multiple high capacity magazines and assault rifles.

My opinion is that, at a minimum, we should have some restrictions. Perhaps a special vetting before someone is allowed to go purchase these guns that can do so much damage. Or perhaps a limit on magazine sizes without a special license.

In the last two weeks, we have had two 18 year old kids with undeveloped frontal lobes go buy assault rifles and then attack innocent people. The one in Uvalde had superior firepower and protection to the armed guards and was able to shoot them and then enter the school. These ARs with high count magazines are simply too easy to get. As long as we don't limit access to these weapons, we will continue to have mass shootings with higher numbers of casualties. If we don't reduce access to ARs with high capacity magazines, we will have many deaths, including children, that could have been avoided.

Years ago I came on here after a school shooting and went into great detail about how difficult it is for the untrained to track and engage targets. A shooter wanting to inflict maximum casualties would do what the NZ mosque shooter did.
12 guage Beneli with 13 round extended tube and buckshot. Humans, when they're afraid in a contained area, huddle together like quail. One blast from buckshot hits several targets. With an AR, you've got to engage each target separately. Through and through wounds don't always happen.

Your AR (not an assault rifle) is not a close range weapon-- it's a stand off weapon. Yes, it can be used effectively AT close range, but it takes discipline and training. In this event, the first officers engaged had side arms-- this meant the assailant had fire superiority capability. He could engage the officers at distance and with more accuracy than their Glocks could.
However, put everybody in a phone booth, and that long rifle loses its handling.

I get your stance-- "make every weapon a single shot weapon with no magazine and fewer people will die." Logical-- yes. Reasonable-- maybe. Actual-- never going to happen.

As far as the NRA goes, it's a shadow of its former self. I left years ago. Why?
Because I don't need a lobbying organization to protect an unalienable right that was given to me.

Now, may be talk about those "undeveloped frontal lobes" you referenced. Taking hormones and/or lopping of your punishment or getting boobs bolted on so you can identify as a female-- there's tons of kids doing this and folks (perhaps like you) defend that.

Let's talk about Vegas. Thos weapons were semi-auto rifles that had been augmented. They were not full auto. Simply "rigged" to be "like" a full auto.

And as far as restrictions-- we have them. This kid, just like I did myself, bought his rifle legally-- with a background check and everything.
Now please explain how we should do a "double background check". You are either a criminal, or you aren't. If you are a criminal, you can not buy a gun. If you're not, you can.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

The guy that shot him was a BORTAC officer that lived a few blocks behind the school.

This will not end up looking good for Uvalde police.

Did you see how close he was to getting domed? He posted a pic of his hat where a round ripped the mesh right at the top. Amazing guy. Should be hailed as a true hero.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

This is what we need in every school, period. Only 1 active entry point and an alpha male with an open carry gun, no Beto betas!

 

[DHHorn]

Years ago I came on here after a school shooting and went into great detail about how difficult it is for the untrained to track and engage targets. A shooter wanting to inflict maximum casualties would do what the NZ mosque shooter did.
12 guage Beneli with 13 round extended tube and buckshot. Humans, when they're afraid in a contained area, huddle together like quail. One blast from buckshot hits several targets. Wuth an AR, you've got to engage each talent separately. Through and through wounds don't always happen.

Your AR (not an assault rifle) is not a close range weapon-- it's a stand off weapon. Yes, it can be used effectively AT close range, but it takes discipline and training. In this event, the first officer engaged had side arms-- this meant the assailant had fire superiority capability. He could engage the officers at distance and with more accuracy than their Glocks could.
However, put everybody in a phone booth, and that long rifle loses its handling.

I get your stance-- "make every weapon a single shot weapon with no magazine and fewer people will die." Logical-- yes. Reasonable-- maybe. Actual-- never going to happen.

As far as the NRA goes, it's a shadow of its former self. I left years ago. Why?
Because I don't need a lobbying organization to protect an unalienable right that was given to me.

Now, may be talk about those "undeveloped frontal lobes" you referenced. Taking hormones and/or lopping of your punishment or getting boobs bolted on so you can identify as a female-- there's tons of kids doing this and folks (perhaps like you) defend that.

Let's talk about Vegas. Thos weapons were semi-auto rifles that had been augmented. They were not full auto. Simply "rigged" to be "like" a full auto.

And as far as restrictions-- we have them. This kid, just like I did myself, bought his rifle legally-- with a background check and everything.
Now please explain how we should do a "double background check". You are either a criminal, or you aren't. If you are, you can buy a gun. If you're not, you can't.

I don't know, any background check that allowed this guy to pass is worthless.

 

[JDCPAgolferHorn]

from what I have seen it looks bad for the police in Uvalde. As soon as I am able I will get the truth from the DPS. As I may have said before, my son was one of if not the leading DPS instructor in teaching police around the country how to handle this very situation. He told me that they were teaching that whichever police was first on the scene, they were to try by any means possible to gain entry to the building where the shooter was and take him/her(or non binary) out if possible. They were to wait for no one even if they were alone. The idea was that the police were armed and trained and the people inside were neither.

Because of this I am stunned from the reports I have read. I will let y'all in on what he tells me. Especially why the cops sat around with their thumbs up their ass.

Something doesn’t square here. It wasn’t Uvalde PD or DPS that went in and took out the assailant. It was a BORTAC officer. This after Ramos was in the building for 45-60 minutes. Where was Uvalde PD? What role did they play during the critical 45-60 minute time period? What if the BORTAC officer didn’t live close by?

 

[clob94]

This is what we need in every school, period. Only 1 active entry point and an alpha male with an open carry gun, no Beto betas!

Just not a bullpup.... anything but that garbage.

 

[Lampasas]

So FJB will head to Uvalde for a photo op (think beto).
Reckon he will have time to see his success on the border?

 

[Oldmanastro]

And now the husband of one of the teachers who was killed died today of a heart attack. Brutal.

 

[jah4550]

Man, I respect your position because it seems to come from a more reasonable place than what is spewed from most that blame guns for deaths.

I personally hunt with a 30-06 that was handed down from my father. It came with a 5rd mag but can just as easily accept whatever you have just like the evil AR platform. Banning the varmint hunting .223/ 5.56 round will accomplish nothing except pissing people off and the mass migration to another platform where this cycle of demonizing an inanimate tool starts over and over and over.

The thing is, none of what I typed even matters because our 2A has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It is 100% about preventing this country from becoming what our founders left.
We've had it good for soo long that most Americans have no idea how easily our way of living and basic freedoms can and certainly will disappear in an instant if there's no deterrence or ability to resist.
I do. I've seen it all too intimately. I bear physical scars from opposing it for others.

I have no problem with a more in depth evaluation for a 1st time purchaser but the whole expand background checks talking point is stupid. Under no circumstances are you able to legally purchase a firearm without undergoing a fed check. Yes, even at gun shows. That ship sailed many years ago.

For me, it's forced single entry point with qualified armed guard for every school that does nothing but security...period. Nothing else will have more impact on school safety than that. Ban a type of rifle and something else will replace it.

94% of ALL mass shootings are in gun free zones. Of those shootings, only 4-5% are via a long rifle (All rifles to include ar styles)

Why focus on 4% instead of 94%? Because that's what they tell you.

Also, you still haven't differentiated an assault rifle from any other rifle. Please, use Google to help and you'll see how wrong that term really is.

Its clear you know a lot more about guns than I. The sense I have is that it is too easy for people to buy high capacity weapons and, because of that, people like the two 18 year olds of the last two weeks, are buying these weapons and scarring the nation. If these two 18 year olds had at least been denied the AR-15 type weapons with the large magazines, many of the people and children that died might be alive. I will gladly concede I don't know the best answer or if we should do several small steps (background for ARs, age limit for ARs, limit magazine size unless a need is established, etc.), but I would like to see some changes come about to reduce this horrific nightmare.

 

[oldhorn2]

Its clear you know a lot more about guns than I. The sense I have is that it is too easy for people to buy high capacity weapons and, because of that, people like the two 18 year olds of the last two weeks, are buying these weapons and scarring the nation. If these two 18 year olds had at least been denied the AR-15 type weapons with the large magazines, many of the people and children that died might be alive. I will gladly concede I don't know the best answer or if we should do several small steps (background for ARs, age limit for ARs, limit magazine size unless a need is established, etc.), but I would like to see some changes come about to reduce this horrific nightmare.

sighhhh.....this is not the result of failure of proper gun control. It is a failure of the police to interdict as soon as possible. The shooter could have inflicted much,much carnage with just a hatchet. The problem was that those that were charged to protect and serve sat on their collective asses and allowed the shooter to continue with the slaughter when they should have entered the building and stopped it.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

sighhhh.....this is not the result of failure of proper gun control. It is a failure of the police to interdict as soon as possible. The shooter could have inflicted much,much carnage with just a hatchet. The problem was that those that were charged to protect and serve sat on their collective asses and allowed the shooter to continue with the slaughter when they should have entered the building and stopped it.

I doubt very seriously the sleepy town of Uvalde ever thought of security really. Complacent comes to mind. Now? This was a wake up call no doubt. Sad but true imo.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

Its clear you know a lot more about guns than I. The sense I have is that it is too easy for people to buy high capacity weapons and, because of that, people like the two 18 year olds of the last two weeks, are buying these weapons and scarring the nation. If these two 18 year olds had at least been denied the AR-15 type weapons with the large magazines, many of the people and children that died might be alive. I will gladly concede I don't know the best answer or if we should do several small steps (background for ARs, age limit for ARs, limit magazine size unless a need is established, etc.), but I would like to see some changes come about to reduce this horrific nightmare.

Your heart is in the right place, right there with ours and everyone else's. The ar style guns is where the disconnect is. If banning all ar style guns meant that we could finally put our focus and resources on actually securing all schools, I'd be completely fine with giving in just to get past that argument but we ALL know that will only move the goal post to the next most popular rifle again and again.
I'm sure by now you know AR ( Armalite) is the company that originally made the AR15 and not short for assault rifle right? AR sold the rifle to Colt who then sold to the USAF and it was later widely adopted during Vietnam due to its lightweight, durability, ease of maintenance, & accuracy at distance.

Here's why we get worked up when all the ban AR stuff comes back around every time. Let's replace guns with trucks because everyone can relate to some extent. Right now the F150 is the most popular truck in the country even though there are many other different looking trucks that perform the exact same.
We wouldn't try to stop drunk driving by banning f150s even though there's probably more of them involved in dd incidents than other brands.
All that would accomplish is higher sales of the Chevy equivalent and then the cycle would begin anew but this time the ban target is Chevy. All the while we've accomplish nothing towards remedying the original problem, the drunk driver. If he's a drunk driver, he's gonna drink and drive with whatever he can get. The vehicle isn't the issue, never was.

AR15 is nothing more than you're standard .22 long rifle with more powder. It's the bling bling gun because everything can be customized and bedazzled like a gay transformer. Using cars again, AR15 is just like the cars in the fast & furious movies. It looks cool, has tons of stickers, shiny rims & window tint but underneath all those visuals it's still a damn Honda civic. There's nothing special about it, it's just the popular platform right now.

2a protections is not the problem here, but it is the best solution.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

Just not a bullpup.... anything but that garbage.

Good catch my man, they are trash. I'd rather have a braced highpoint 9 from academy. 😂

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

Its clear you know a lot more about guns than I. The sense I have is that it is too easy for people to buy high capacity weapons and, because of that, people like the two 18 year olds of the last two weeks, are buying these weapons and scarring the nation. If these two 18 year olds had at least been denied the AR-15 type weapons with the large magazines, many of the people and children that died might be alive. I will gladly concede I don't know the best answer or if we should do several small steps (background for ARs, age limit for ARs, limit magazine size unless a need is established, etc.), but I would like to see some changes come about to reduce this horrific nightmare.

Five Myths About AR-15s - AllOutdoor.com

There is no other firearm available today that has more misinformation about it floating around than the AR-15. The amount of information that is simply wrong, or flat-out lies regarding these sporting rifles is rather astounding. There are many on the 2nd Amendment side who feel this is due to...

www.alloutdoor.com

Nobody wants our children to be easy targets, nobody. I hope we can collectively pull our heads from our asses and do something that actually works but as long as we blame 1 tool in the toolbox, we'll never fix anything.

 

[clob94]

It's going to be a REALLY bad next few months for the Uvalde PD.

Like-- really bad. This is going to be VERY bad for them dudes.

 

[Drtxhorn]

It's going to be a REALLY bad next few months for the Uvalde PD.

Like-- really bad. This is going to be VERY bad for them dudes.

I won't be surprised to start seeing resignations in the coming days. Governor Abbot now has egg all over his face after he unequivocally stated that police officers immediately rushed the shooter and engaged with him. That was completely untrue but that was the information he was provided by Uvalde police. I'm sure he's pissed because he now looks like a dumbass for making that statement. He's going to be demanding answers as well.

 

[2300 Nueces]

I won't be surprised to start seeing resignations in the coming days. Governor Abbot now has egg all over his face after he unequivocally stated that police officers immediately rushed the shooter and engaged with him. That was completely untrue but that was the information he was provided by Uvalde police. I'm sure he's pissed because he now looks like a dumbass for making that statement. He's going to be demanding answers as well.

They intended to craft a narrative but all those pesky parents with phones..... The parents and observers ruin every attempt at creating a narrative by posting the truth online. At this moment, the police in Uvalde are trying to assess how much truth is online so that they can craft a narrative that still absolves them of their negligent behavior. This is the government in a nutshell.

 

[DHHorn]

They intended to craft a narrative but all those pesky parents with phones..... The parents and observers ruin every attempt at creating a narrative by posting the truth online. At this moment, the police in Uvalde are trying to assess how much truth is online so that they can craft a narrative that still absolves them of their negligent behavior. This is the government in a nutshell.

Best post you've ever made.

 

[speedstrength]

This guy never should have got to the school door.

Dude crashes his grandmas truck at 11:28. People come out to see if he needs help and he shoots at them. 911 is called at 11:30. Dude jumps the back fence and enters the school at 11:40. Police don't enter the building until 11:44 and then retreat after taking fire.

The police station is 1.4 miles from the school and the Highschool where the SRO was is 2.1 miles away. With lights and sirens that is less than a 5 minute response time. Why did it take them 14 minutes to get into the building after a 911 call of an active shooter right next to the school?

There is a WSJ article about a woman driving 40 miles to the school. She gets to the police line and tries to find out about her kids. US Marshalls put her in hand cuffs and arrest her for interfering with an investigation. Local police know her and convince them to let her go. She claims that she went to another part of the school, jumped the fence, went in the school, and got her 2 kids out. 2nd and 3rd Grader. There are other reports of parents being hand cuffed and tazed because they were trying to go into the building to get their kids.