Uvalde-- we've got to do something

[JDCPAgolferHorn]

This guy never should have got to the school door.

Dude crashes his grandmas truck at 11:28. People come out to see if he needs help and he shoots at them. 911 is called at 11:30. Dude jumps the back fence and enters the school at 11:40. Police don't enter the building until 11:44 and then retreat after taking fire.

The police station is 1.4 miles from the school and the Highschool where the SRO was is 2.1 miles away. With lights and sirens that is less than a 5 minute response time. Why did it take them 14 minutes to get into the building after a 911 call of an active shooter right next to the school?

There is a WSJ article about a woman driving 40 miles to the school. She gets to the police line and tries to find out about her kids. US Marshalls put her in hand cuffs and arrest her for interfering with an investigation. Local police know her and convince them to let her go. She claims that she went to another part of the school, jumped the fence, went in the school, and got her 2 kids out. 2nd and 3rd Grader. There are other reports of parents being hand cuffed and tazed because they were trying to go into the building to get their kids.

This isn’t a relatively simple case of a career criminal in NYC that has 19 prior arrests and uses a $50 handgun bought off the streets to shoot a stranger in the subway. Primary question: why was he out on the streets after 19 arrests?

Here, there are many more obvious questions. The issues regarding the timeline. The questions regarding the PD responsiveness. How did this loser get about $5k (my estimate) to purchase 2 Daniel Defense weapons and all of the magazines and rounds that were found?

I’m not looking to speculate. Rather, these are the obvious questions that grieving families will be asking themselves over time as they go through the grieving process. The facts need to come out; otherwise the families will understandably latch on to the questions their entire life. They will never get their loved ones back but it does help with the grieving process to reduce over time the number of unanswered questions.

Someone very close to me lost a sister in a horrific accident many years ago. The parents wanted and needed answers for their own healing.

This will impact many people in ways unimaginable for a lifetime. I’m hopeful those impacted get their questions answered in due time. They deserve it.

 

[Hoookem722]

Here, there are many more obvious questions. The issues regarding the timeline. The questions regarding the PD responsiveness. How did this loser get about $5k (my estimate) to purchase 2 Daniel Defense weapons and all of the magazines and rounds that were found?

He had a job at Wendy's and he lived with his grandparents so he probably didn't have any bills. Not unreasonable to save $5K over a period of time.

 

[clob94]

Five Myths About AR-15s - AllOutdoor.com

There is no other firearm available today that has more misinformation about it floating around than the AR-15. The amount of information that is simply wrong, or flat-out lies regarding these sporting rifles is rather astounding. There are many on the 2nd Amendment side who feel this is due to...

www.alloutdoor.com

Nobody wants our children to be easy targets, nobody. I hope we can collectively pull our heads from our asses and do something that actually works but as long as we blame 1 tool in the toolbox, we'll never fix anything.

Spent 2 hours on the phone last night with a buddy that just finished his 20. He spent most of those with 1st RB A company. We talked about the misconceptions of the AR vs the SOPMOD and how they "look similar, but ain't".

He reiterated that there is no way on God's blue earth he'd go down range with an AR. And as I'm sure you know, most of them boys can shoot.

His solution was similar to yours. Hardened single point of entry, with the use of a primary and then secondary pass through entry. Door behind them locks before the door infront of them can unlock. If it's a bad guy, you've got "bad guy locked in the box" and can dispatch him at your leisure.

 

[JDCPAgolferHorn]

He had a job at Wendy's and he lived with his grandparents so he probably didn't have any bills. Not unreasonable to save $5K over a period of time.

"[O]ver a period of time" . . . If the loser saved over a period of a year or so, does that mean he saved with the intention of committing this/some heinous act? Were there signs over that "period of time"?

Every answer leads to another question for grieving people looking for definitive answers. As I said, I've seen this first hand. I'll stop with this exchange because I don't want to get into the speculation business. Just hoping that grieving families get their answers over time.

 

[JDCPAgolferHorn]

Spent 2 hours on the phone last night with a buddy that just finished his 20. He spent most of those with 1st RB A company. We talked about the misconceptions of the AR vs the SOPMOD and how they "look similar, but ain't".

He reiterated that there is no way on God's blue earth he'd go down range with an AR. And as I'm sure you know, most of them boys can shoot.

His solution was similar to yours. Hardened single point of entry, with the use of a primary and then secondary pass through entry. Door behind them locks before the door infront of them can unlock. If it's a bad guy, you've got "bad guy locked in the box" and can dispatch him at your leisure.

I've done consulting for armored transportation businesses and have done numerous tours of branches in high risk countries such as Brazil, Colombia, and Venezuela. All of the branches storing currency and other valuables use the primary/secondary door (called a "mantrap" in that industry) system for their single entry point.

Would work very well in an educational setting.

 

[speedstrength]

This isn’t a relatively simple case of a career criminal in NYC that has 19 prior arrests and uses a $50 handgun bought off the streets to shoot a stranger in the subway. Primary question: why was he out on the streets after 19 arrests?

Here, there are many more obvious questions. The issues regarding the timeline. The questions regarding the PD responsiveness. How did this loser get about $5k (my estimate) to purchase 2 Daniel Defense weapons and all of the magazines and rounds that were found?

I’m not looking to speculate. Rather, these are the obvious questions that grieving families will be asking themselves over time as they go through the grieving process. The facts need to come out; otherwise the families will understandably latch on to the questions their entire life. They will never get their loved ones back but it does help with the grieving process to reduce over time the number of unanswered questions.

Someone very close to me lost a sister in a horrific accident many years ago. The parents wanted and needed answers for their own healing.

This will impact many people in ways unimaginable for a lifetime. I’m hopeful those impacted get their questions answered in due time. They deserve it.

He dropped out of school and was working full time at Wendy's starting sometime in February. He was living rent free with Mom and then Grandma. He was probably making 10-12 an hour. With worker shortages he probably had some overtime as well. He ended up paying a little over 3 grand for both weapons. Not too hard to save up that money in a few months.

 

[Drtxhorn]

This guy never should have got to the school door.

Dude crashes his grandmas truck at 11:28. People come out to see if he needs help and he shoots at them. 911 is called at 11:30. Dude jumps the back fence and enters the school at 11:40. Police don't enter the building until 11:44 and then retreat after taking fire.

The police station is 1.4 miles from the school and the Highschool where the SRO was is 2.1 miles away. With lights and sirens that is less than a 5 minute response time. Why did it take them 14 minutes to get into the building after a 911 call of an active shooter right next to the school?

There is a WSJ article about a woman driving 40 miles to the school. She gets to the police line and tries to find out about her kids. US Marshalls put her in hand cuffs and arrest her for interfering with an investigation. Local police know her and convince them to let her go. She claims that she went to another part of the school, jumped the fence, went in the school, and got her 2 kids out. 2nd and 3rd Grader. There are other reports of parents being hand cuffed and tazed because they were trying to go into the building to get their kids.

The story about the mother going inside to get her kids is amazing but it hasn’t been confirmed. If true, I would want to know what she saw and how she found her kids. Also, did she free other kids and teachers too?

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

It's now being reported this evil punk was arrested 4yrs ago for saying when he's a senior, he's going to shoot up a school.

I hate the idea of red flag laws but Jesus Christ he should have at least been on a damn list somewhere.

 

[GuaranteedFresh!]

Spent 2 hours on the phone last night with a buddy that just finished his 20. He spent most of those with 1st RB A company. We talked about the misconceptions of the AR vs the SOPMOD and how they "look similar, but ain't".

He reiterated that there is no way on God's blue earth he'd go down range with an AR. And as I'm sure you know, most of them boys can shoot.

His solution was similar to yours. Hardened single point of entry, with the use of a primary and then secondary pass through entry. Door behind them locks before the door infront of them can unlock. If it's a bad guy, you've got "bad guy locked in the box" and can dispatch him at your leisure.

1000% this.

 

[DHHorn]

It's now being reported this evil punk was arrested 4yrs ago for saying when he's a senior, he's going to shoot up a school.

I hate the idea of red flag laws but Jesus Christ he should have at least been on a damn list somewhere.

Yep, these guys can't hide their crazy, they always let it show at some point. We need to use that to find them before they go off.

 

[2300 Nueces]

Yep, these guys can't hide their crazy, they always let it show at some point. We need to use that to find them before they go off.

My opinion on a vaccine can be censored but crazies making threats can't be corralled? These guys want attention because their personal life choices suck.... might as well go out with a bang, fools.

What we don't see are the hundreds that are apprehended and dealt with. It seems Uvalde is still in pre Columbine mode. We need to make it a law that that public places be made hard targets.

 

[oldhorn2]

He had a job at Wendy's and he lived with his grandparents so he probably didn't have any bills. Not unreasonable to save $5K over a period of time.

I call bullshit on this. No dropout loser in the known universe has the discipline and knowledge to save that kind of money over any amount of time.....so where did he get it?

 

[Belldozer1]

The local cops were afraid to go in and fight. Hmmmmm

and in this world we live in if there are armed officers on campus hope motivated are they to step up when the shooting starts? Seems like Uvalde had a lot of posers collecting paychecks? A lot of followers?

 

[2300 Nueces]

The fact there are so many schools without multiple armed security officers is unconscionable to me. I was visiting my daughter over last weekend and went to a very nice shopping center with a Louis Vuitton store. That store had two armed security guards there to protect a bunch of fvcking handbags!
and in this world we live in if there are armed officers on campus hope motivated are they to step up when the shooting starts? Seems like Uvalde had a lot of posers collecting paychecks? A lot of followers?

They had the same problem in the Miami school shooting as well as the gay club in Florida.

Public places are becoming war zones, including the local heb. It's best to be prepared to deal with hostiles alone.

 

[DHHorn]

I watched the press conference from DPS a few minutes ago, not good. A few points.

The commanding officer on scene reduced it from an active shooter to a stand off/barricade situation. That is why they didn't breach the door immediately. Admitted it was the wrong decision.

Multiple 911 calls came from students in the room during the "standoff" of children begging the cops to come in and get them. Were those calls relayed to the commanding officer that there were still children alive in the room?

Tactical teams waiter for the proper gear before breaching.

There was no resource officer on the campus.

He entered through a door that was propped open.

 

[2300 Nueces]

I watched the press conference from DPS a few minutes ago, not good. A few points.

The commanding officer on scene reduced it from an active shooter to a stand off/barricade situation. That is why they didn't breach the door immediately. Admitted it was the wrong decision.

Multiple 911 calls came from students in the room during the "standoff" of children begging the cops to come in and get them. Were those calls relayed to the commanding officer that there were still children alive in the room?

Tactical teams waiter for the proper gear before breaching.

There was no resource officer on the campus.

He entered through a door that was propped open.

Some people need to fry. Cowardice needs to be eradicated. Make examples of these failures.

 

[Oldmanastro]

I'll just leave this:

Border Patrol Tactical Team Was Ordered to Hold Back Before Confronting the Gunman

When specially equipped federal immigration agents arrived at the elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, on Tuesday, the local police at the scene would not allow them to go after the gunman who had opened fire on students inside the school, according to two officials briefed on the situation. The...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Hoookem722]

I call bullshit on this. No dropout loser in the known universe has the discipline and knowledge to save that kind of money over any amount of time.....so where did he get it?

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just passing along the information I have gathered.

 

[Hoookem722]

I watched the press conference from DPS a few minutes ago, not good. A few points.

The commanding officer on scene reduced it from an active shooter to a stand off/barricade situation. That is why they didn't breach the door immediately. Admitted it was the wrong decision.

Multiple 911 calls came from students in the room during the "standoff" of children begging the cops to come in and get them. Were those calls relayed to the commanding officer that there were still children alive in the room?

Tactical teams waiter for the proper gear before breaching.

There was no resource officer on the campus.

He entered through a door that was propped open.

This makes my blood boil hearing this. This all could have been avoided if the commanding officer wasn't such a fvucking coward!

 

[DHHorn]

This makes my blood boil hearing this. This all could have been avoided if the commanding officer wasn't such a fvucking coward!

It think literally every protocol to prevent this failed.

Lunatic passes a background check and buys 2 rifles, 60 magazines, 1000+ rounds of ammo.
People that know him said he threatened to shoot up a school in the past.
No resource officer on campus.
A door was not only unlocked but propped open.
First responding officers were ineffective and fell back.
Commanding officer gave the order to wait before breaching the room.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Belldozer1]

Somebody in the know tell me other that what is probably obvious, why are we not hearing from Uvalde’s finest since they were first in the scene?

 

[Belldozer1]

I was listening to 1200 radio a few minutes ago and they were reading some of the 911 calls that came in, in those 911 calls that I heard nothing indicated that the shooter was barricaded in but they were sure asking the police to come inside multiple, multiple calls from people inside

 

[Belldozer1]

Fire the whole freaking Uvalde police force and whoever else from DPS or whoever took control of the situation. That response was the epitome of this nation, soft and probably scared of offending the shooter

 

[DHHorn]

It think literally every protocol to prevent this failed.

Lunatic passes a background check and buys 2 rifles, 60 magazines, 1000+ rounds of ammo.
People that know him said he threatened to shoot up a school in the past.
No resource officer on campus.
A door was not only unlocked but propped open.
First responding officers were ineffective and fell back.
Commanding officer gave the order to wait before breaching the room.

Did I miss anything?

One thing I missed which should be at the top.

Shitty parents.

 

[speedstrength]

According to the the news conference there were 7 officers in the building at 11:35. The head of the school district police was the incident commander and made the barricaded subject call. When reporters asked the DPS spokesperson if the police chief was on campus he said no comment.

 

[oldhorn2]

I am not ragging on the messenger.....I am ragging on the message. Bullshit that the guy over a period of time worked and saved and worked and saved until he had the money. He stole it, ran drugs for it, or was given the money.....maybe for his birthday. Anyway, they need to find out how/where he got the money.

 

[hillcountryhorn63697005]

This tragedy storyline will continue to change. And if this killer did not know how to drive, how did he get to the Oasis, on the other side of town, over 3 miles away. Wendy's would be a mile and half trip, also on the same side of town the Oasis is. He could have walked to work or biked to work (w Wendy's must pay well or maybe his hands were in the cash register too much), but to carry 2 guns and loads of ammo would have been a tough walk from the Oasis. Plus he'd be passing thru town, in sight.
Finally, if he didn't wreck, right near Robb Elementary, my thought is that the HS was his target. God bless and comfort the children's family.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

This tragedy storyline will continue to change. And if this killer did not know how to drive, how did he get to the Oasis, on the other side of town, over 3 miles away. Wendy's would be a mile and half trip, also on the same side of town the Oasis is. He could have walked to work or biked to work (w Wendy's must pay well or maybe his hands were in the cash register too much), but to carry 2 guns and loads of ammo would have been a tough walk from the Oasis. Plus he'd be passing thru town, in sight.
Finally, if he didn't wreck, right near Robb Elementary, my thought is that the HS was his target. God bless and comfort the children's family.

He was on a mission and that mission changed when he wrecked grammas truck. He was goin down no matter what. Imo.

 

[speedstrength]

He said in private Facebook messages that he was going to shoot his grandma. Then he said he shot his grandma. Then he said he was going to the elementary school. The elementary school was the target all along

 

[Hoookem722]

I am not ragging on the messenger.....I am ragging on the message. Bullshit that the guy over a period of time worked and saved and worked and saved until he had the money. He stole it, ran drugs for it, or was given the money.....maybe for his birthday. Anyway, they need to find out how/where he got the money.

Pretty easy to get your hands on a credit card as well. And I already told you where he got his money. He was a full time employee at Wendy’s. It’s not like we are talking about a million bucks here. If he puts back $100 a week he could have $3k saved in a little over a half a year. It’s not an unreasonable amount of money we are talking about here.

 

[Hoookem722]

This tragedy storyline will continue to change. And if this killer did not know how to drive, how did he get to the Oasis, on the other side of town, over 3 miles away. Wendy's would be a mile and half trip, also on the same side of town the Oasis is. He could have walked to work or biked to work (w Wendy's must pay well or maybe his hands were in the cash register too much), but to carry 2 guns and loads of ammo would have been a tough walk from the Oasis. Plus he'd be passing thru town, in sight.
Finally, if he didn't wreck, right near Robb Elementary, my thought is that the HS was his target. God bless and comfort the children's family.

The high school was his initial target from the way I understand it.

 

[Belldozer1]

I'm trying to figure out how on earth he could be such a shitty driver to begin with. I've seen his grandfather make mention that he had difficulty driving or some shit but damn it looked to me from the condition of that truck that he went freaking airborne into the drainage ditch.

 

[oldhorn2]

Pretty easy to get your hands on a credit card as well. And I already told you where he got his money. He was a full time employee at Wendy’s. It’s not like we are talking about a million bucks here. If he puts back $100 a week he could have $3k saved in a little over a half a year. It’s not an unreasonable amount of money we are talking about here.

ok....guess I am gonna have to shoot the messenger. I DO NOT BELIEVE AN 18 YEAR OLD DUMBASS HAD THE DICIPLINE TO SAVE $3000.00 IN ANY AMOUNT OF TIME! Credit card maybe....but he had to steal that .....maybe from Granny.

 

[Belldozer1]

ok....guess I am gonna have to shoot the messenger. I DO NOT BELIEVE AN 18 YEAR OLD DUMBASS HAD THE DICIPLINE TO SAVE $3000.00 IN ANY AMOUNT OF TIME! Credit card maybe....but he had to steal that .....maybe from Granny.

Well I'm sure the girls weren't beating down his door for dates so maybe he's frugal with
that money he was getting from peddling those Dave's specials or like you said maybe he took granny's credit card, that's probably the nicest thing he did for her this year.

 

[LonghornMM]