Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (Florida 5 and South Florida Roots)
- Thread starter Ketchum
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It's not just that. Don't underestimate the role of the high school experience that he was referencing. By and large Texas players are often closer to their ceilings than prospects than other states when they come out of HS, which has its benefits and negatives.
Accidental win? Please explain. Turnovers were even and Ohio State out-gained Bama by 130 yards.
We don't have a draft. Marines enlist and more or less know what they're getting into. But we do have varying cultures among different college football programs. Some types of kids were attracted to MBTF because of that culture.
Re: Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (Florida 5 and South Florida
1) All the references of poor performance in practice (which you never tag a legitimate name too for the
source) are just throwing up a "smokescreen" to prevent any backlash to Heard not getting on the
field this past year, especially after it may have been a top priority to redshirt him.
2) Shawn Watson has taken a two time state champion QB with tremendous talent & has not developed
the kid enough to have him ready.....and has actually caused him to regress some. And, that could
be, if all we have to go by is what Watson has shown us with his offense this past year, which is not
much.
Again, schools all over the country have their backups ready to play....look no further than Ohio State. If we can't get a kid as talented as Jerrod Heard as a viable option to what we saw at the QB position this past year, especially the last two games, we have a serious problem with our QB coach, Mr. Watson.
This post was edited on 1/5 2:15 PM by BigTexEx
This again. Ketch, just because you want to make blanket statements that we are a part of some "group" doesn't change anything as it applies to Jerrod Heard being a QB ready enough to play football at Texas. After watching our QB play this year, give me a break if you don't think Heard is a viable option. We had moments of absolute horrid QB play this year....and I have seen Heard play in person for years & KNOW that he can beat what I saw. His credentials are by far better. And if he is NOT a viable option one of two things is occurring:
1) All the references of poor performance in practice (which you never tag a legitimate name too for the
source) are just throwing up a "smokescreen" to prevent any backlash to Heard not getting on the
field this past year, especially after it may have been a top priority to redshirt him.
2) Shawn Watson has taken a two time state champion QB with tremendous talent & has not developed
the kid enough to have him ready.....and has actually caused him to regress some. And, that could
be, if all we have to go by is what Watson has shown us with his offense this past year, which is not
much.
Again, schools all over the country have their backups ready to play....look no further than Ohio State. If we can't get a kid as talented as Jerrod Heard as a viable option to what we saw at the QB position this past year, especially the last two games, we have a serious problem with our QB coach, Mr. Watson.
This post was edited on 1/5 2:15 PM by BigTexEx
Re: Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (Florida 5 and South Florida
Additionally, if your statement were true that guys either have it or they don't from the very beginning, then why do we see so many rookie QBs bust in both college and the NFL?
The truth is we don't know jack squat about Heard's development because all practices have been closed. I don't even think our MODs have any insight into how Heard is progressing (no offense). So you can't say that Watson has not developed him unless you have some inside info that we are not privy too. We won't know until we watch the spring game exactly how much Heard has developed.
Additionally, if your statement were true that guys either have it or they don't from the very beginning, then why do we see so many rookie QBs bust in both college and the NFL?
Ketch, while you've constantly implored patience and letting young QB's "bake in the oven" before expecting much (points most of us would agree are desirable, a redshirt year being a MUST HAVE in most cases), I'd be interested to hear your take on the extraordinary job Urban Meyer and Tom Herman have done with their QB's at Ohio State.
For over a decade I was livid at Mack Brown's inability to have back-up QB's prepared and ready to execute if called upon. Ironically, last week Mack was still moaning about losing Colt to injury against Alabama, the very day Ohio State's 3rd string QB Cardale Jones, fearlessly lit up Bama for 560 yards after having put 59 (points, not yards) on a good Wisconsin team in the Big Ten Title game. Of course, Cardale, a redshirt sophomore with little game experience, took over for JT Barrett, a redshirt freshman with zero game experience, who proceeded to have a Heisman-quality year until injured against Michigan. Barrett, we all know, took the QB job from Braxton Miller, who had played QB since his pure freshman year in 2011, but improved greatly once Meyer and Herman arrived in Columbus before his sophomore season. There's more. The Buckeye 4th string QB, a pure freshman, comes in late in the Michigan game and runs like a young Braxton Miller. 4 good QB's, all prepared, seemingly fearless and ready to execute from their first snap. Incredible.
Now, I concede those QB's were surrounded by better O-lines and more talent than Tyrone was this year. They're also playing in a spread O which is way less complex than Watson's west coast O and offers young uber-athletes a superior system to exploit their athleticism, to take off and run! But isn't this case study living proof that it is possible to create a prolific O with multiple young QB's (ready to fire) even without lots of game experience? Yes, all the OSU QB's have "baked in the oven" in practice, some having even gotten the benefit of a redshirt year, like JT Barrett. But the most impressive factor to me is they ARE READY TO PLAY WELL in big games when they finally get their chance. No need to play terrible in games for a year first.
it seems that Jerrod Heard would kill it in that type of system with that quality of coaching, That's what Charley needs to strive for because QB's do often get hurt, regardless of whether the QB is a dual threat or a pocket passer. I am concerned about the complexity of learning the reads in Watson's O. I believe it's a huge factor in why we hear Jerrod is coming along slowly. It will also make it harder to build QB depth. However, it does better prepare one for the NFL, an important factor in some recruits' eyes,
In my humble opinion, it Texas moved to a running-oriented spread, zone read option attack, Jerrod would likely be ready to take down a good Irish team on September 5 and Texas could also rapidly build depth at this critical position. Hopefully, Gentry could adapt and Kai Locksley would be from central casting for that role. Swoopes could be effective in an emergency back-up role.
For over a decade I was livid at Mack Brown's inability to have back-up QB's prepared and ready to execute if called upon. Ironically, last week Mack was still moaning about losing Colt to injury against Alabama, the very day Ohio State's 3rd string QB Cardale Jones, fearlessly lit up Bama for 560 yards after having put 59 (points, not yards) on a good Wisconsin team in the Big Ten Title game. Of course, Cardale, a redshirt sophomore with little game experience, took over for JT Barrett, a redshirt freshman with zero game experience, who proceeded to have a Heisman-quality year until injured against Michigan. Barrett, we all know, took the QB job from Braxton Miller, who had played QB since his pure freshman year in 2011, but improved greatly once Meyer and Herman arrived in Columbus before his sophomore season. There's more. The Buckeye 4th string QB, a pure freshman, comes in late in the Michigan game and runs like a young Braxton Miller. 4 good QB's, all prepared, seemingly fearless and ready to execute from their first snap. Incredible.
Now, I concede those QB's were surrounded by better O-lines and more talent than Tyrone was this year. They're also playing in a spread O which is way less complex than Watson's west coast O and offers young uber-athletes a superior system to exploit their athleticism, to take off and run! But isn't this case study living proof that it is possible to create a prolific O with multiple young QB's (ready to fire) even without lots of game experience? Yes, all the OSU QB's have "baked in the oven" in practice, some having even gotten the benefit of a redshirt year, like JT Barrett. But the most impressive factor to me is they ARE READY TO PLAY WELL in big games when they finally get their chance. No need to play terrible in games for a year first.
it seems that Jerrod Heard would kill it in that type of system with that quality of coaching, That's what Charley needs to strive for because QB's do often get hurt, regardless of whether the QB is a dual threat or a pocket passer. I am concerned about the complexity of learning the reads in Watson's O. I believe it's a huge factor in why we hear Jerrod is coming along slowly. It will also make it harder to build QB depth. However, it does better prepare one for the NFL, an important factor in some recruits' eyes,
In my humble opinion, it Texas moved to a running-oriented spread, zone read option attack, Jerrod would likely be ready to take down a good Irish team on September 5 and Texas could also rapidly build depth at this critical position. Hopefully, Gentry could adapt and Kai Locksley would be from central casting for that role. Swoopes could be effective in an emergency back-up role.
Ketch, while you've constantly implored patience and letting young QB's "bake in the oven" before expecting much (points most of us would agree are desirable, a redshirt year being a MUST HAVE in most cases), I'd be interested to hear your take on the extraordinary job Urban Meyer and Tom Herman have done with their QB's at Ohio State.
For over a decade I was livid at Mack Brown's inability to have back-up QB's prepared and ready to execute if called upon. Ironically, last week Mack was still moaning about losing Colt to injury against Alabama, the very day Ohio State's 3rd string QB Cardale Jones, fearlessly lit up Bama for 560 yards after having put 59 (points, not yards) on a good Wisconsin team in the Big Ten Title game. Of course, Cardale, a redshirt sophomore with little game experience, took over for JT Barrett, a redshirt freshman with zero game experience, who proceeded to have a Heisman-quality year until injured against Michigan. Barrett, we all know, took the QB job from Braxton Miller, who had played QB since his pure freshman year in 2011, but improved greatly once Meyer and Herman arrived in Columbus before his sophomore season. There's more. The Buckeye 4th string QB, a pure freshman, comes in late in the Michigan game and runs like a young Braxton Miller. 4 good QB's, all prepared, seemingly fearless and ready to execute from their first snap. Incredible.
Now, I concede those QB's were surrounded by better O-lines and more talent than Tyrone was this year. They're also playing in a spread O which is way less complex than Watson's west coast O and offers young uber-athletes a superior system to exploit their athleticism, to take off and run! But isn't this case study living proof that it is possible to create a prolific O with multiple young QB's (ready to fire) even without lots of game experience? Yes, all the OSU QB's have "baked in the oven" in practice, some having even gotten the benefit of a redshirt year, like JT Barrett. But the most impressive factor to me is they ARE READY TO PLAY WELL in big games when they finally get their chance. No need to play terrible in games for a year first.
it seems that Jerrod Heard would kill it in that type of system with that quality of coaching, That's what Charley needs to strive for because QB's do often get hurt, regardless of whether the QB is a dual threat or a pocket passer. I am concerned about the complexity of learning the reads in Watson's O. I believe it's a huge factor in why we hear Jerrod is coming along slowly. It will also make it harder to build QB depth. However, it does better prepare one for the NFL, an important factor in some recruits' eyes,
In my humble opinion, it Texas moved to a running-oriented spread, zone read option attack, Jerrod would likely be ready to take down a good Irish team on September 5 and Texas could also rapidly build depth at this critical position. Hopefully, Gentry could adapt and Kai Locksley would be from central casting for that role. Swoopes could be effective in an emergency back-up role.
For over a decade I was livid at Mack Brown's inability to have back-up QB's prepared and ready to execute if called upon. Ironically, last week Mack was still moaning about losing Colt to injury against Alabama, the very day Ohio State's 3rd string QB Cardale Jones, fearlessly lit up Bama for 560 yards after having put 59 (points, not yards) on a good Wisconsin team in the Big Ten Title game. Of course, Cardale, a redshirt sophomore with little game experience, took over for JT Barrett, a redshirt freshman with zero game experience, who proceeded to have a Heisman-quality year until injured against Michigan. Barrett, we all know, took the QB job from Braxton Miller, who had played QB since his pure freshman year in 2011, but improved greatly once Meyer and Herman arrived in Columbus before his sophomore season. There's more. The Buckeye 4th string QB, a pure freshman, comes in late in the Michigan game and runs like a young Braxton Miller. 4 good QB's, all prepared, seemingly fearless and ready to execute from their first snap. Incredible.
Now, I concede those QB's were surrounded by better O-lines and more talent than Tyrone was this year. They're also playing in a spread O which is way less complex than Watson's west coast O and offers young uber-athletes a superior system to exploit their athleticism, to take off and run! But isn't this case study living proof that it is possible to create a prolific O with multiple young QB's (ready to fire) even without lots of game experience? Yes, all the OSU QB's have "baked in the oven" in practice, some having even gotten the benefit of a redshirt year, like JT Barrett. But the most impressive factor to me is they ARE READY TO PLAY WELL in big games when they finally get their chance. No need to play terrible in games for a year first.
it seems that Jerrod Heard would kill it in that type of system with that quality of coaching, That's what Charley needs to strive for because QB's do often get hurt, regardless of whether the QB is a dual threat or a pocket passer. I am concerned about the complexity of learning the reads in Watson's O. I believe it's a huge factor in why we hear Jerrod is coming along slowly. It will also make it harder to build QB depth. However, it does better prepare one for the NFL, an important factor in some recruits' eyes,
In my humble opinion, it Texas moved to a running-oriented spread, zone read option attack, Jerrod would likely be ready to take down a good Irish team on September 5 and Texas could also rapidly build depth at this critical position. Hopefully, Gentry could adapt and Kai Locksley would be from central casting for that role. Swoopes could be effective in an emergency back-up role.
Re: Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (Florida 5 and South Florida
You might review the posts....misquoting me, I did not speak of the "have it or they don't...", but many times that can be applied. And, I did not conclude that Watson is not developing him, and thus the reason I indicated one of TWO things must be occurring. And, I will stand by that. The kid is damn talented, and something is wrong if the kid is not supposedly a "viable option" this year for QB. Simple as that. I have my beliefs, and others have their's, that's aok. I know one thing, tune in to Spring ball & Fall ball and we are about to find out who has a legitimate "feel" on this one.
Having coached at the High School level I can tell you that your scout friend is right about many districts. I was at what is now a 4a level program and we had a million dollar weight room along with a 60 yard indoor facility. Many of or kids would snub D2 schools along with some bigger schools because or facilities were better then the colleges.
And RB's, WR's, OL, DL, LB's and DB's. LOL
Charlie Strong made it clear almost Day 1 when he arrived at UT. "I have a lot of connections with Florida."
Translation: I'm going to recruit the hell out of Florida because I think those are the kids I can win with.
I'm sure the Texas High School Coaches Convention will go over really great for Charlie Strong when many Texas HS Coaches start to feel their kid (Texas caliber player) is being shunned for some kid from Miami. LOL
Charlie Strong made it clear almost Day 1 when he arrived at UT. "I have a lot of connections with Florida."
Translation: I'm going to recruit the hell out of Florida because I think those are the kids I can win with.
I'm sure the Texas High School Coaches Convention will go over really great for Charlie Strong when many Texas HS Coaches start to feel their kid (Texas caliber player) is being shunned for some kid from Miami. LOL
Patterson and Briles win with 95% Texas HS kids that were 2-Star and 3-Star kids.
Most of the TCU and Baylor kids weren't given even a sniff by the UT staff.
Most of the TCU and Baylor kids weren't given even a sniff by the UT staff.
Re: Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (Florida 5 and South Florida
You seem to be indicating that I am sleeping on Heard, as if I didn't rank him as a top 10 prospect last February and as if I am not acutely aware of is skill-set (ie.. "he is damn sure mobile")
Check out what his actual coordinator and quarterback coach had to say about the topic.
"He wasn't ready this year. He's still got to develop, too. We've got what we got. We haven't had a chance to put our mark on it yet. We've got to do that."
"smokescreen"
FIVE.
BTW, how on earth would you know that he has caused him to regress?
You really seem a little irrational on this subject to say the least.
This is what you originally said: "Ketch is missing the boat on Heard. Perhaps he needed the redshirt, but he is damn talented & that has not changed, he is damn sure mobile & that hasn't changed, can damn sure throw the ball & that hasn't changed, is a damn good leader & that hasn't changed,......so he is damned sure ready to hit the field. The waiting game has been way too damn long & it's time for him to roll! Get ready to be surprised Ketch. "
You seem to be indicating that I am sleeping on Heard, as if I didn't rank him as a top 10 prospect last February and as if I am not acutely aware of is skill-set (ie.. "he is damn sure mobile")
Check out what his actual coordinator and quarterback coach had to say about the topic.
"He wasn't ready this year. He's still got to develop, too. We've got what we got. We haven't had a chance to put our mark on it yet. We've got to do that."
I have sources throughout the program and we talk to people that see practices, yet you would seem to suggest that we don't have any sources who are honest (or any sources at all) or that there is an actual plan of diversion on this subject.
"smokescreen"
The kid has been in the program for five months.
FIVE.
BTW, how on earth would you know that he has caused him to regress?
None of the kids that played at Ohio State this year were backups. All had at least a year of experience.
You really seem a little irrational on this subject to say the least.
Re: Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (Florida 5 and South Florida
We and others actually have insight. Many are simply choosing to believe that we don't rather than listen to the actual insight because they don't want to believe it.
That's not really true.
We and others actually have insight. Many are simply choosing to believe that we don't rather than listen to the actual insight because they don't want to believe it.
Patterson looks for them within 2 hours of Fort Worth..
Charlie Strong looks for them in Miami.. LOL
I'll dig around Texas for all those sleeper 3-Star level kids that have wanted to play for UT since the day they got out of the diaper.
PS.. There is enough talent within 3 hours of Austin to build 2 National Championship caliber teams.
Charlie Strong looks for them in Miami.. LOL
I'll dig around Texas for all those sleeper 3-Star level kids that have wanted to play for UT since the day they got out of the diaper.
PS.. There is enough talent within 3 hours of Austin to build 2 National Championship caliber teams.
When Jimmy Johnson was the coach at Miami (after the Okla St coaching career).. Guess where he came to grap 4-5 kids almost annually??
The State of Texas.
The State of Texas.
Murphy 7....Good post, anyone that would bash you haven't a clue!
Texas signs more division1 players EVERY year than any other state. I've coached at two high schools in East Texas and I can assure you they the same advantages and just as entitled as any other area in Texas that I've coached in.
Ketch,I've never had a college coach tell me what your friend told you, just the opposite. A coach,from LSU, did tell me that if LSU could have their pick of La., Houston and E.T. players they could win a NC every year.
I believe you when you said you were not demeaning Texas HS players, but you can see how it could be interpreted like that.
There is not a state in the US that is not a little envious of Texas High School Football.
We don't have a draft. Marines enlist and more or less know what they're getting into. But we do have varying cultures among different college football programs. Some types of kids were attracted to MBTF because of that culture.
I know that and was using shorthand hoping that most who read it would more easily comprehend what I was trying to say.
Having said that, I have actual experience with Army training and I saw a lot of young men - including myself - be taught to do things with an attitude that I never dreamed I would have.
Going forward with Coach Strong and his staff, every potential "recruit" should know what they are getting into. And those players currently on the team surely know by now what is expected. I bet many of them can adapt. If not, then we are in for a couple of tough years.
Based on what I've seen and read, Jerrod Heard is a heck of lot more prepared to be a good football quarterback than I ever was to be a good soldier. I got there and I bet that he can too because he has a huge head start with his athletic ability and a bunch of superior trainers and coaches watching him like a hawk.
I know that and was using shorthand hoping that most who read it would more easily comprehend what I was trying to say.
Having said that, I have actual experience with Army training and I saw a lot of young men - including myself - be taught to do things with an attitude that I never dreamed I would have.
Going forward with Coach Strong and his staff, every potential "recruit" should know what they are getting into. And those players currently on the team surely know by now what is expected. I bet many of them can adapt. If not, then we are in for a couple of tough years.
Based on what I've seen and read, Jerrod Heard is a heck of lot more prepared to be a good football quarterback than I ever was to be a good soldier. I got there and I bet that he can too because he has a huge head start with his athletic ability and a bunch of superior trainers and coaches watching him like a hawk.
Re: Ketch's 10 Thoughts From The Weekend (Florida 5 and South Florida
Ketch...that's just absurd. I have always respected the fact that you can have an appreciation for other OB's opinions. I have always liked the way you run this board. I have appreciated the fact that you allow a lot of things to be thrown out there on OB's, some absolutely crazy. But I can't figure you out on this Swoopes vs. Heard option thing? It's odd to me. You want to peg me now as "irrational" because I believe that Heard is & should be a viable option over Swoopes as UT's QB this year? Really? How many "meaningful" snaps has Cardale Jones had before getting thrown into the mix the last two games for Ohio St.? Again, if you think you have this figured out, check out Spring ball & Fall ball....then tune in and see who our starter is game one. And, be sure you get back with me & don't start "riding the fence" on this one.
Ketch - really enjoyed your 10 Thoughts, particularly the summary of which players are still in play for Texas and how the numbers add up going forward.
The East Texas / Florida take was also spot on. Very nice job.
The East Texas / Florida take was also spot on. Very nice job.
