CONGRATS re Eyes

[hookem365]

Not true. Edward Blum is well funded and is always seeking new clients who are willing to litigate college admissions. I know its probably a shocker but the Harvard Lawsuit found that they were not quotas being used. They were not capping slots by race. The under qualified candidates who were admitted were from well connected rich families who donated large sums of money to the university, legacies (rich white kids) and athletes. It's definitely not under qualified black and brown kids taking slots for white kids. I can guarantee that is the case at all selective private schools. See operation varsity blues for more examples of rich people buying their unqualified children admission to prestigious schools.

I agree. Holistic reviews meets that objective as well.

 

[dj701919]

The process is not flawed. A sample size of 8000-9000 students at a public university should reflect the public school population from which they are drawn. Regional public schools in Texas are much more representative of their regions that UT Austin is to the state as a whole. HB 558 has made the demographics of the accepted students much more representative of the State as a whole but for some reason the matriculation is not. The question should be why are accepted back and Hispanic students not attending. My guess is its more of a money thing than anything else. Cheaper to go to school closer to home.

Doesn't you assertion that the demographics of student enrollment at Texas should be the same as Texas public schools fail to consider academic achievement? Isn't that the purpose of HB 558?

 

[speedstrength]

Doesn't you assertion that the demographics of student enrollment at Texas should be the same as Texas public schools fail to consider academic achievement? Isn't that the purpose of HB 558?

Not at all. The top 5-7% of students at Alamo Heights high school are probably White, probably Black at Sam Houston high school and probably Hispanic at Harlendale high school. HB 558 was a rather eloquent and simple solution Hopwood v Texas decision. The top high school students in the state are applying. The problem is that Black and Hispanic students who are accepted aren't attending. Again my guess is the biggest factor is money and how do we fix that.

And before anything brings it up the 4 and 6 year graduation rates are pretty much the same pre and post HB 558 so kids from under funded low SES schools aren't flunking out at greater rates.

 

[oldhorn2]

Demographics of Texas Public Schools
52% Hispanic
27% White
12% Black
5% Asian

Demographics of UT Austin
41% White
23% Hispanic
21% Asian
4% Black

So White and Asian Students are over represented and Hispanic and Black students are under represented. There isn't much you can do about that because of HB 558 guarantees admission to students who graduate in the top 5-7% of their high school classes. Freshman classes are between 8000-9000 students. Their are enough Hispanic and Black Students accepted to ensure similar numbers but for some reason (probably money) large numbers choose not to attend.

Speed.....using your numbers I would gather that either there is an unknown race that has 11% of the enrollment or that UT is only 89% attended. I get your point, but the smart ass in me temporarily escaped.


A point that few make is that both aTm and UT "absorbed" many small colleges in South Texas to help with total System demographics. Texas A & I, Pan American, etc became parts of aTm and Texas because of their over 90 % Latino enrollment.

 

[speedstrength]

Speed.....using your numbers I would gather that either there is an unknown race that has 11% of the enrollment or that UT is only 89% attended. I get your point, but the smart ass in me temporarily escaped.


A point that few make is that both aTm and UT "absorbed" many small colleges in South Texas to help with total System demographics. Texas A & I, Pan American, etc became parts of aTm and Texas because of their over 90 % Latino enrollment.

I didn't put in the decimal points and I excluded 2 or more races and international students.

I work at one of the "absorbed" system schools. It was done to reduce administrative cost. There was some serious disdain at the legislature for the bloat at the Texas System of Colleges and Universities. A&M didn't really want A&I and there are people at Kingsville who don't think to highly of the A&M system. By they It wasn't just along the border it was all over the state (West Texas A&M, Commerce, UT Tyler)

 

[outhereincali]

Outhereincali, are you trying to say that percentage of black students in a university is a measure of inclusiveness or a lack of racism?
If so, I disagree that such an inference cab be drawn without considering other factors.... education standards / programs offered / broader community / local job opportunities to complement the education etc. I would expect higher percentages in bigger cities, generally.

There are already plenty of measures where college admissions prefer certain groups. So, lower black or other ethnic group population is despite an effort on the part of the colleges.

No we're having a discussion a starting point if you will. And there is also gender diversity. And most schools score better in that category.. And fwiw UH is located in the 3rd ward a historically black neighborhood. And there has always been been a strong relationship between the black community and UH. Point being is that when it comes to racial/ gender diversity each school had it's own story. And that's what I mean about a starting point. UT and other schools need to do the same.

 

[TX1972]

I'm calling BS on this. California v Bakke made racial quotas illegal in 1978. If they had people slotted in based on racial and geographic locations then they were violating the law. Secondly admissions officers don't discuss admissions with anyone outside the university. Either situation opens the university up to lawsuits and defending admissions decisions in federal court can run into the millions after all of the appeals are done.

Could someone in the development office have said hey there aren't too many slots left, if you give a little bit more this year I can talk to admissions and see if we can't make something happen. Sure, stuff like that happens all the time and it could have been misconstrued as kids are slotted in by race.

That's not what Bakke did. I know what my friends have told me. UT has spent the millions twice and won so far. When my middle daughter wanted to go to UT Law, she was Phi Beta Kappa, but only scored 169 on the LSAT. She eventually got in a year later, but if she had been Hispanic or black she would have been a slam dunk. Are you not aware of Asian students v. Harvard? It will make it to the Supreme Court. An asian applicant needs 350 more SAT points to get into Harvard than a black applicant.

 

[TX1972]

Demographics of Texas Public Schools
52% Hispanic
27% White
12% Black
5% Asian

Demographics of UT Austin
41% White
23% Hispanic
21% Asian
4% Black

So White and Asian Students are over represented and Hispanic and Black students are under represented. There isn't much you can do about that because of HB 558 guarantees admission to students who graduate in the top 5-7% of their high school classes. Freshman classes are between 8000-9000 students. Their are enough Hispanic and Black Students accepted to ensure similar numbers but for some reason (probably money) large numbers choose not to attend.

In THE MADNESS OF CROWDS, Douglas Murray points out that Google employees are 4% hispanic, 2%black, 56% white, and 35 % asian. He points that the tech companies are "rarely capable of practicing what they are so willing to preach."

 

[speedstrength]

That's not what Bakke did. I know what my friends have told me. UT has spent the millions twice and won so far. When my middle daughter wanted to go to UT Law, she was Phi Beta Kappa, but only scored 169 on the LSAT. She eventually got in a year later, but if she had been Hispanic or black she would have been a slam dunk. Are you not aware of Asian students v. Harvard? It will make it to the Supreme Court. An asian applicant needs 350 more SAT points to get into Harvard than a black applicant.

Go read the Bakke decision. It upheld affirmative action but invalidated the use of racial quotas. Hopwood determined that UT was using a type of quota system so that's why the legislature came up with HB 558. I don't know where you got 350 points from. Average score for Asians is 768, White is 746, Hispanics are 727, Black are 717. Besides test scores don't predict college success. Thats why they are getting less and less weight.

 

[speedstrength]

In THE MADNESS OF CROWDS, Douglas Murray points out that Google employees are 4% hispanic, 2%black, 56% white, and 35 % asian. He points that the tech companies are "rarely capable of practicing what they are so willing to preach."

That is more of a pipline issue. Same thing with school teachers. Its 70% women and a little over 55% white in Texas. If you go to college CS classes its mostly dudes. If you go to education classes its mostly women. But those examples don't really relate to a public university. Classes at Texas should do a better job or representing the state as a whole. We do a pretty good job on the admissions side of things but we need to do better in getting them on campus. My best guess is its more of a money thing than anything else. More Back and Hispanic students who get accepted decide to stay home because money is an issue.

 

[outhereincali]

Not at all. The top 5-7% of students at Alamo Heights high school are probably White, probably Black at Sam Houston high school and probably Hispanic at Harlendale high school. HB 558 was a rather eloquent and simple solution Hopwood v Texas decision. The top high school students in the state are applying. The problem is that Black and Hispanic students who are accepted aren't attending. Again my guess is the biggest factor is money and how do we fix that.

And before anything brings it up the 4 and 6 year graduation rates are pretty much the same pre and post HB 558 so kids from under funded low SES schools aren't flunking out at greater rates.

That's interesting because someone on here posted that over the last 3 years over 1900 black students were accepted into UT but decided to elsewhere. Thanks for providing some information to that question.

 

[TX1972]

Go read the Bakke decision. It upheld affirmative action but invalidated the use of racial quotas. Hopwood determined that UT was using a type of quota system so that's why the legislature came up with HB 558. I don't know where you got 350 points from. Average score for Asians is 768, White is 746, Hispanics are 727, Black are 717. Besides test scores don't predict college success. Thats why they are getting less and less weight.

Google Asian students v Harvard.

 

[MadDogKC]

All in all, I think this turned out well. We all know the cliche "the devil is in the details", so here are some thoughts I have.
1. "recruit, attract, retain and support even more talented and diverse students, staff members and faculty members who can change the world."
Obviously, this means diversity in skin color. No problem there, however, what about diversity in thought? Are we going to hire only leftist black staff and faculty or will they make a concerted effort to hire black Americans that have conservative values like Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, Condoleeza Rice.... I would like to see campus conservative students make their thoughts known that diversity is not just skin color. To me, this is a very important.

2. Can we get instructors that are "ALIGNED" with the university that will love the university and love our country? Whether they are left or right, doesn't matter, but this is of vital importance. This university has stepped up to the plate in a big way and I can't say enough about the class of the Jamail family. They deserve much appreciation and gratitude from the athletes themselves for stepping back and offering the name change on their own accord.

Below is the plan for UT
A More Diverse and Welcoming Campus
July 13, 2020

Dear UT Community,

During the past month, I have listened to — and spoken with — scores of students about how The University of Texas at Austin can promote diversity, inclusion and equity and fully support our Black students.

These and similar conversations with alumni, faculty, staff and community members have been challenging, fulfilling and eye-opening all at the same time. I went into them understanding that UT has worked hard in recent decades to become a more diverse and welcoming campus. I came out of them realizing there is still more work to do — and that this work starts and ends by creating an environment in which students, faculty and staff are fully supported before, during and after their time at UT.

This goal is shared by many, including the Chairman of our Board of Regents, Kevin Eltife. The Chairman and I have worked closely during the past few weeks, and I’ve been grateful for his ideas and inspiration. I am excited by the next steps and future conversations that are emerging from this process, and I know that Chairman Eltife, our university leadership and I share a common goal of making UT the best it can be for all of our students, faculty, staff and alumni for many years to come.

The number of Black undergraduate students on campus has risen by nearly 9% during the past five years, and we are also optimistic about enrollment in this fall’s entering class. With support from the Board of Regents, we have launched the $160 million Texas Advance Commitment and programs such as UT for Me, which are providing many eligible Black students, among many others, with millions of dollars of additional financial support and resources to ease the financial burden for them to attend UT.

Even so, our Black students still comprise only 5.1% of the student body. And during the past five years, more than 1,900 Black students who were automatically accepted here given their outstanding performance in high school instead chose to go elsewhere. Obviously, these talented students had many college options and made choices for a variety of reasons. Equally obvious to me is that many of those talented students do not believe our campus will be a welcoming home to them, and that we have not provided enough resources to ensure they will get all that is possible out of a UT education. I have heard this from current and former students, from faculty members, and from staff members. It is clear from these conversations and from the data I’ve reviewed that we can do better. So, together with the support of other members of university leadership, I am announcing a series of initiatives today to change that.

These efforts fall into two categories. First: doing more to recruit, attract, retain and support even more talented and diverse students, staff members and faculty members who can change the world. And second: reconsidering how to best reflect our values, both in the symbols and names on our campus, and the openness with which we tell our history.

Every action we take must support the people who make UT such a special place and must fulfill our mission to teach, learn and discover.

To recruit, attract, retain and support talented and diverse students, faculty and staff, we will:

• Work with a group of students, faculty, staff and alumni to allocate a multimillion-dollar investment from Athletics’ revenue to worthy university programs — whether on or off campus – that work to recruit, attract, retain and support Black students. We expect that our investments will include at a minimum:

• Expanding our presence and outreach in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and elsewhere to better recruit outstanding high school students from underrepresented groups. We will raise additional funds to establish more private scholarships specifically dedicated to recruiting students such as those 1,900 Black students who were accepted here and chose to go elsewhere.
  
  
• Providing significant new resources to expand programs that provide transformative opportunities for future Black leaders, including some of the outstanding work already being done within the university.
  
  
• In conjunction with the Texas Exes and using a new program within Texas Athletics as a pilot project, launch an effort to improve our students’ ability to position themselves for post-graduation success. This will maximize the impact of our vast alumni network and corporate relationships.

• Adopt a university-wide plan to recruit, develop and retain world-class facultymembers who bring more diversity to our research and teaching missions. This plan has been in the works for more than a year under the leadership of Vice Provost for Diversity Ted Gordon and includes new funding for research and scholarship.
  
  
• Refocus and sharpen the implementation of our Diversity and Inclusion Action Plan (UDIAP), which was released in 2017. We will regularly signal our priorities, commitment and progress toward measurable goals through a refreshed and better-communicated plan, overseen by Vice President Leonard Moore.

• Expand the UT Austin Police Oversight Committee to include more community members and a broader range of students, have it meet more frequently, and broaden its mission to oversee student and community engagement, communications and the exploration of creative approaches to community policing, on-campus safety and wellness issues.

The second set of actions addresses issues related to our campus and its symbols. After listening to many constituents, I’ve based these decisions on our role as an institution of higher education that is designed to teach and enable discovery. In doing so, I’ve relied upon the input I’ve received from our students, faculty, staff and alumni, and the work to date of our Campus Contextualization Committee, chaired by Vice President Leonard Moore.

I have weighed the effects that specific individuals or symbols have made on our university; how they fit with our values today; and the opportunities we have to use the stories surrounding these individuals and symbols to educate, to learn, and ultimately, to move us closer together as a community.

To ensure that we recognize and learn from our history and reflect our values through our campus symbols, we will:

• Rename the Robert L. Moore Building as the Physics, Math and Astronomy Building and provide historical explanations within the building about why past university leaders chose to name the space for Professor Moore.

• Honor Heman M. Sweatt in additional ways: by creating the Heman M. Sweatt Entrance to T.S. Painter Hall as the main entrance on 24th Street; placing a statue of Mr. Sweatt near the entrance; and then reimagining, redesigning and rededicating a major space in the building as an exhibit and gathering place where we will tell the story of the U.S. Supreme Court case of Sweatt v. Painter. This will recognize Mr. Sweatt’s courage and leadership in changing the world through the 1950 case that he won, allowing him and other Black students to attend UT. This will also place Painter Hall within the context of our university’s resistance to integration under T.S. Painter’s presidency, and ultimately to the Sweatt decision’s crucial role in integrating public education.

• Honor the Precursors, the first Black undergraduates to attend The University of Texas at Austin, by commissioning a new monument on the East Mall. This will be the central feature of a larger space dedicated to the pioneering students and faculty members who helped move the university toward becoming more inclusive.

• Erect a statue for Julius Whittier, the Longhorns’ first Black football letterman, at DKR-Texas Memorial Stadium.

• At the suggestion of the Jamail family, rename Joe Jamail Field at the stadium in honor of Texas’ two great Heisman Trophy winners, Earl Campbell and Ricky Williams, two Longhorn legends with a record of commitment to the university.

• Educate our community and visitors about the history and context of many of the names that remain, such as the Littlefield Fountain, the statue of Gov. Jim Hogg, the Belo Center and the pedestals on which a series of statues stood until 2017. Building on the work done by the Campus Contextualization Committee, this education may take the form of plaques and a website that our community and visitors can easily access from their phones.

• Own, acknowledge and teach about all aspects of the origins of “The Eyes of Texas” as we continue to sing it moving forward with a redefined vision that unites our community.

“The Eyes of Texas,” in its current form, will continue to be our alma mater. Aspects of its origin, whether previously widely known or unknown, have created a rift in how the song is understood and celebrated, and that must be fixed. It is my belief that we can effectively reclaim and redefine what this song stands for by first owning and acknowledging its history in a way that is open and transparent.

Together, we have the power to define what the Eyes of Texas expect of us, what they demand of us, and what standard they hold us to now. "The Eyes of Texas" should not only unite us, but hold all of us accountable to our institution’s core values. But we first must own the history. Only then can we reimagine its future, and I look forward to partnering with our campus community to do just that.

These are the actions we will take together. They represent the continued evolution of our university, which has been taking place for 137 years and will carry forward for generations to come.

As we develop the details for these plans, I will share them publicly.

To all who have been so candid with me about your frustrations, your concerns, your experiences and your beliefs — thank you. It has been a humbling experience to hear and learn from you.

Respectfully yours,

Jay Hartzell
Interim President

Co-signed by:

Daniel Jaffe
Interim Executive Vice President and Provost

Darrell Bazzell
Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

Soncia Reagins-Lilly
Vice President for Student Affairs and Dean of Students

Leonard Moore
Vice President for Diversity and Community Engagement

Chris Del Conte
Vice President and Athletics Director

Black players 75% of the team

 

[speedstrength]

Google Asian students v Harvard.

Did you read my other post. I commented on that very case 3 times and provided the real SAT scores provided by the plaintiffs. You just made up some numbers off the top of your head. Maybe you should do a little more research on the topic.

 

[CAHorn47]

Black players 75% of the team

Yeah, some 60+ players out of more than 40,000 undergraduate students.

 

[clob94]

Yeah, some 60+ players out of more than 40,000 undergraduate students.

Football is merit based.

Academics should also be merit based.

 

[oldhorn2]

Too bad I could only give you one like for that post ^^^^

 

[hookem365]

Football is merit based.

Academics should also be merit based.

Except Case McCoy...

 

[hookem365]

Go read the Bakke decision. It upheld affirmative action but invalidated the use of racial quotas. Hopwood determined that UT was using a type of quota system so that's why the legislature came up with HB 558. I don't know where you got 350 points from. Average score for Asians is 768, White is 746, Hispanics are 727, Black are 717. Besides test scores don't predict college success. Thats why they are getting less and less weight.

There is significant manipulation of testing standards to make it harder to separate those that have exceptional skills from those that do not.

This manipulation is also prevalent in high schools. They try to dumb things down so that everyone can do very well. For e.g. they will give as much credit for turning in homework as doing it right.

 

[CAHorn47]

Except Case McCoy...

27-25

 

[speedstrength]

There is significant manipulation of testing standards to make it harder to separate those that have exceptional skills from those that do not.

This manipulation is also prevalent in high schools. They try to dumb things down so that everyone can do very well. For e.g. they will give as much credit for turning in homework as doing it right.

What are the significant manipulations of the SAT and ACT that you speak of? The only thing in the research literature is that rich people tend to spend more money on test prep so their kids score higher. The only thing that correlates with test scores are the test takers parent's income. They are a horrible predictor or college success.

The two best predictors of success in college are high school GPA and GRIT. One is fairly easy to measure. The other is a bit of a challenge but people have tried. Lets say you have two kids with the same 3.8 GPA and one kid has higher test scores but the other kid was a varsity football player and worked at McDonalds to support his family (not making this up, I had a kid come out of the locker room after practice and walk to McDonalds to work). I would say the kid who managed to make A's, play varsity football, and work to support his family would probably do well in college and I would give him an edge over someone with higher test scores. (By the way that kid enlisted, used his GI bill to pay for college and he is now in his last year of law school)

 

[outhereincali]

27-25

With an assist from Justin Tucker who has gone on to be the GOAT at least as fast as the NFL is concerned..

 

[hookem365]

27-25

It could have been 47-25!

Texas' problems to date stem from recruiting undeserving talent like Case McCoy only because his brother did well at Texas.

 

[TX1972]

What are the significant manipulations of the SAT and ACT that you speak of? The only thing in the research literature is that rich people tend to spend more money on test prep so their kids score higher. The only thing that correlates with test scores are the test takers parent's income. They are a horrible predictor or college success.

The two best predictors of success in college are high school GPA and GRIT. One is fairly easy to measure. The other is a bit of a challenge but people have tried. Lets say you have two kids with the same 3.8 GPA and one kid has higher test scores but the other kid was a varsity football player and worked at McDonalds to support his family (not making this up, I had a kid come out of the locker room after practice and walk to McDonalds to work). I would say the kid who managed to make A's, play varsity football, and work to support his family would probably do well in college and I would give him an edge over someone with higher test scores. (By the way that kid enlisted, used his GI bill to pay for college and he is now in his last year of law school)

Today the most common grade is A. So grades don't mean as much today.

 

[oldhorn2]

It could have been 47-25!

Texas' problems to date stem from recruiting undeserving talent like Case McCoy only because his brother did well at Texas.

Really? Seems like I read that Case put up much better numbers in HS than Colt did. Where did you hear he was an undeserving talent? Hell....for that matter I think Colt was only a 3 star recruit. Maybe I have it all wrong, but I dont think so....


....and to say....his brother did well....WELL??? he was one of the top 5 QB's to ever wear the burnt orange! I would dip into that gene pool sight unseen ...

 

[RoboCocks21]

Really? Seems like I read that Case put up much better numbers in HS than Colt did. Where did you hear he was an undeserving talent? Hell....for that matter I think Colt was only a 3 star recruit. Maybe I have it all wrong, but I dont think so....


....and to say....his brother did well....WELL??? he was one of the top 5 QB's to ever wear the burnt orange! I would dip into that gene pool sight unseen ...

Case took his high school team to state and losing at the end. Colt team didnt make state. So there are those stats for high school.

 

[DrinkToIt]

Attending UT is a privilege, not a right, damn it.

There are a million Jr Colleges and lesser state schools that will accept you, but no one has a right to attend UT.

If you're in the Top 5% at any high school you will have a chance. Back it up with anything other than your race please.

UT-Austin isn't UH or University of Phoenix. Its world class. No one should be denied based on race, but no one should be admitted based on it either.

There's no lack of higher education opportunities in this country.