Please keep doing the movie rankings leading up to the Oscars. Also, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of The Watchmen. That series is just incredible.
Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (The definitive college coordinator candidate rankings...)
- Thread starter Ketchum
- Start date
Thanks for the effort you put into the OC, DC rankings, Ketch.
Two observations.
First, running a college football program is obviously a very complex endeavor. There are a lot of components of success and there are a lot of variables that are both cause and effect of that success. For example, being a good coordinator surely causes on the field success but on the field success surely promotes good recruiting which provides good talent which makes being a successful coordinator much easier. Your list of categories 10 and 9 coordinators shows coordinators from Clemson, LSU, Clemson, LSU, Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan, and Ohio State. These schools have all recruited like heck and have tons of high end talent - 5 stars and high 4 stars - at all levels of experience on their rosters. Certainly makes it easier for the coordinators to show well on the field, I would think. The 8.5 level coordinators are from Clemson, Wisconsin, Florida, Wisconsin, and Auburn. Again, plenty of talent except maybe Wisconsin which has its own recruiting niche I believe.
Second, what is a plausible career path for coordinators at these top end schools? Would a few hundred thousand a year more in salary lure one of these guys to leave a coordinator spot at a sure fire successful school to go work as a coordinator under a relatively young and less heralded head coach like Tom Herman in a potentially risky turnaround situation? Or are they going to only leave for a head coaching opportunity somewhere (like Tom Herman did when he went from being OC at Ohio State to head coach at Houston)?
I really don't think it is plausible that we are going to get a proven coordinator from one of these elite schools. We are going to have to get someone like Brady who does not have near the history of success as either a play caller or talent developer or someone like Harrell who looks good but doesn't have the skins because he hasn't been with a super successful program.
Then we will all be depressed because Herman didn't get the best of the best coordinators.
Two observations.
First, running a college football program is obviously a very complex endeavor. There are a lot of components of success and there are a lot of variables that are both cause and effect of that success. For example, being a good coordinator surely causes on the field success but on the field success surely promotes good recruiting which provides good talent which makes being a successful coordinator much easier. Your list of categories 10 and 9 coordinators shows coordinators from Clemson, LSU, Clemson, LSU, Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan, and Ohio State. These schools have all recruited like heck and have tons of high end talent - 5 stars and high 4 stars - at all levels of experience on their rosters. Certainly makes it easier for the coordinators to show well on the field, I would think. The 8.5 level coordinators are from Clemson, Wisconsin, Florida, Wisconsin, and Auburn. Again, plenty of talent except maybe Wisconsin which has its own recruiting niche I believe.
Second, what is a plausible career path for coordinators at these top end schools? Would a few hundred thousand a year more in salary lure one of these guys to leave a coordinator spot at a sure fire successful school to go work as a coordinator under a relatively young and less heralded head coach like Tom Herman in a potentially risky turnaround situation? Or are they going to only leave for a head coaching opportunity somewhere (like Tom Herman did when he went from being OC at Ohio State to head coach at Houston)?
I really don't think it is plausible that we are going to get a proven coordinator from one of these elite schools. We are going to have to get someone like Brady who does not have near the history of success as either a play caller or talent developer or someone like Harrell who looks good but doesn't have the skins because he hasn't been with a super successful program.
Then we will all be depressed because Herman didn't get the best of the best coordinators.
I'm a little scared that an NFL defensive coordinator would install a system that is too complex for college kids. I think we need a fairly simple scheme that lets us win with better athletes and technique. If our BMD's are willing to pony up to hire the best OC that money can buy (except for the Clemson guy who is head coaching bound). Let Herman pick between Brady, Sarknisian and Harrell and put $2mm x 2 years on the table.
It's on my list.Then you have no excuse!
You should give Succession a spin. I think you'd enjoy.
Most of the proven coordinators at the highest levels are waiting for the big HC job to happen for them.
Good post.
Greg Robinson was regarded as a complex teacher when he arrived and the players never had an issue under him.
I too am surprised that three NFL DC prospects are listed and no Jerry Gray. He went as far to take a position coach job at Texas before the Titans DC job was offered so his interest in Texas and passion for the program cannot be denied. I don't pay a lot of attention to the NFL but it seems to me he has always been highly regarded. Seems strange his name has not been mentioned.
Agreed. You'd think one of the ACC programs would have taken a swing at him.
IMO, if he aspires to one day coach a premier P5 program, he should have targeted a lower tier SEC or ACC program as his first HC job. That way, he could cut his teeth and take his lumps without the expectations of competing right away. Coaching at a mid-major seems to be poor training ground for success at a premier P5 program, judging by how absurdly high the failure rate is for mid-major hotshots who graduate from the mid-majors straight to a premier P5 program.
* Jim McElwain: CO State --> Florida
* Charlie Strong: Louisville --> Texas
* Willie Taggert: S. Florida --> Oregon/FSU
* Al Golden: Temple --> Miami
* Rich Rodriguez: WVU --> Michigan
* Brady Hoke: SDSU --> Michigan
* Butch Jones: Cincy --> Tennessee
* Derek Dooley: LA Tech --> Tennessee
* Dennis Franchione: TCU --> Alabama
* Dan Hawkins: Boise St --> Colorado
* Tommy Bowden: Tulane --> Clemson
* Curly Hallman: S. Miss --> LSU
* Gus Malzahn: Ark State --> Auburn
* Tommy West: UT Chatt --> Clemson
Meyer, Tressel & Bowden are the only coaches in the last 40 years to jump from the mid-majors to a premier P5 program and win a title. Coaches that come from lesser P5 programs have had much, much, more success. That's the direction I'd have angled were I Jeff Scott.
I just think that bridge was crossed and maybe can't be crossed again.
Would that make TH seat even hotter when the first 40 points gets put up against a Charlie defense
Totally agree.
It's actually seems like he's doing himself a disservice to be at Clemson or in the ACC if a guy with all of that success (on the field and in recruiting) can't pull a better job than that after a half-decade of killing it.
LOL at Kevin Steele "finding success" at all his stops. Alabama, LSU and Clemson all let him go after a a couple of seasons and replaced him with Smart, Venables and Aranda. He is the epitome of a mediocre coordinator. Good news is that the trend has been set that who ever replaces Steele is generally an absolute 10.
Yeah but it's a completely different cast of characters and a higher level position. Not sure why anyone would hold jumping ship from college position coach to NFL DC against the guy. I do think his dream job is Tom Herman's job so that might be an issue with Tom. Dunno.
Well, when you put it like that...
However... his defenses at Auburn have been very good.
It should also be noted that when he left LSU, Les Miles did everything he could to keep him.
He's also a fantastic recruiter.
You might be right. Add him to the call list.
I just generally subscribe to the fool me once, ok, never again club.
It's pretty eye opening that Joe Brady is a hot name after 1 year at LSU as a passing game coordinator, yet Scott's really never been a hot name, despite 7 years as Clemson's run game coordinator and 5 years as their co-OC.
Agree! Joe Brady is currently hot because Joe Burrow is making him look like a genius. A JAG QB and LSU is not even winning the SEC and has at least two losses - one of them to Texas (Burrow threaded the needle about a dozen times for completions in that game, with Texas DB's in position to knock them down. So, its not an incredible scheme where WR's are wide open and RB's are running wild.). Let's see what Brady does the next 2-3 years.
The failure of the teams this year and your report that Herman is not pursuing the top assistants.
@Ketchum on number 5:
The real flip that got switched in the comeback wasn'tjust a personnel change, a schematic change etc. It was when former All American/NC winner, Khatt Bell came out of the stands and took over the huddle after the 3rd set loss. Not a coach or a current player, but a former player in the stands led the talk. Anyone who saw it ,saw Jerrittt and the other coaches step away and just let Khatt be Khatt.
"I couldn't sit there any longer; it was hard to watch them kind of crumble under the pressure," said Bell, who now plays volleyball professionally. "I said, 'If I was out there on the court, what would I say to them?'
"When things are going tough, pull it out, look to each other, take care of each other. You've got to find a way."
https://www.espn.com/college-sports...ment-pitt-ousted-nebraska-tested-second-round
Now some of that was said I'm sure, but anyone who has ever watched Khatt get in a teammates face or fire them up, knows there were very likely some nsfw words shared about protecting our motherf---g house too! Tough Lady and fierce competitor.
The real flip that got switched in the comeback wasn'tjust a personnel change, a schematic change etc. It was when former All American/NC winner, Khatt Bell came out of the stands and took over the huddle after the 3rd set loss. Not a coach or a current player, but a former player in the stands led the talk. Anyone who saw it ,saw Jerrittt and the other coaches step away and just let Khatt be Khatt.
"I couldn't sit there any longer; it was hard to watch them kind of crumble under the pressure," said Bell, who now plays volleyball professionally. "I said, 'If I was out there on the court, what would I say to them?'
"When things are going tough, pull it out, look to each other, take care of each other. You've got to find a way."
https://www.espn.com/college-sports...ment-pitt-ousted-nebraska-tested-second-round
Now some of that was said I'm sure, but anyone who has ever watched Khatt get in a teammates face or fire them up, knows there were very likely some nsfw words shared about protecting our motherf---g house too! Tough Lady and fierce competitor.
I don't know how happy LSU fans were with him. The defense did dip under him from the 2014 group.
wow@Ketchum on number 5:
The real flip that got switched in the comeback wasn'tjust a personnel change, a schematic change etc. It was when former All American/NC winner, Khatt Bell came out of the stands and took over the huddle after the 3rd set loss. Not a coach or a current player, but a former player in the stands led the talk. Anyone who saw it ,saw Jerrittt and the other coaches step away and just let Khatt be Khatt.
"I couldn't sit there any longer; it was hard to watch them kind of crumble under the pressure," said Bell, who now plays volleyball professionally. "I said, 'If I was out there on the court, what would I say to them?'
"When things are going tough, pull it out, look to each other, take care of each other. You've got to find a way."
https://www.espn.com/college-sports...ment-pitt-ousted-nebraska-tested-second-round
Now some of that was said I'm sure, but anyone who has ever watched Khatt get in a teammates face or fire them up, knows there were very likely some nsfw words shared about protecting our motherf---g house too! Tough Lady and fierce competitor.
On the OC's and DC's--great list @Ketchum
However,I can't see anyone over an 8.5 other than Ash or maybe Scott taking the job IMO. My guess is most see themselves as a HC in their next gig and/or most attached to much more stable/winning programs I know Brady is not the OC,I just don't see it..
Herman is, or should be also out of get out of jail fee cards if the team/HE under performs again.
If I am a strong candidate and it's my turn to ask questions, I would need to know what Herman's//the teams definition of acceptable performance will be next year, in addition to mine of course
Love the NFL selection pool thoughts
.
However,I can't see anyone over an 8.5 other than Ash or maybe Scott taking the job IMO. My guess is most see themselves as a HC in their next gig and/or most attached to much more stable/winning programs I know Brady is not the OC,I just don't see it..
Herman is, or should be also out of get out of jail fee cards if the team/HE under performs again.
If I am a strong candidate and it's my turn to ask questions, I would need to know what Herman's//the teams definition of acceptable performance will be next year, in addition to mine of course
Love the NFL selection pool thoughts
.
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