I don't think 99-percent positive means what you think it means.
Read if you want. I really don't care at this point.
Please, go away. Leave my thread. I've had my fill of what you bring to a discussion.
Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (What happened in Waco should be personal for all of us...)
- Thread starter Ketchum
- Start date
Read if you want. I really don't care at this point.
Please, go away. Leave my thread. I've had my fill of what you bring to a discussion.
I am a paying customer of this site. I am not doing anything to break the rules. I am merely trying to have an intelligent conversation with you. YOU are the one who started calling me names, if I did that to you, I bet you would have banned me. Again, I brought up the topic of you taking money (not saying that you did, but that it was something that was brought up over the interwebs). You WENT off on my calling me names and accusing me to be a liar. I just proved to you that I wasn't wrong, yet you still aren't man enough to admit that I was right, even if only that, that conversation existed.
Again, I find your attitude towards paying customers shocking. I have been a member here a long time, actually longer with a different user account. But you shoo me away because I questioned you on something that ACTUALLY happened? Is this what your site has come too?
Agreed, it's bigger than TH, it's about always doing what is right, it's really not that hard..
That is not what is happening. If that were the case, the conversation would be going quite differently.
I'm not the guy who said this:
"I'm not trying to be a Homer appoligist, but I believe we as a fan base are too quick to want the hammer to fall on Baylor, and I get it."
Or this:
"Look, we have all done stupid shit, even you if I am remembering correctly took some money that was supposed to go to some charity or something to that affect."
Or this:
"If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!"
About the only thing you've actually said correctly is that you are a paying subscriber, although I'm very close to checking to see if that is true based on your trends....
You assumed (and even suggested) that I had little familiarity with the black community, which is really the only thing that bothered me. I haven't seen the evidence that you have (despite ample opportunities having spent a lot of time with my black relatives and mentoring kids from Alief,) and so you call my observations inaccurate. On a macroscopic basis, I don't see how American culture has been forever changed like it has with other sports stories. In a subculture within a subculture within a subculture it probably has had an effect, but I don't see how you can equate that to it being the greatest story in American history (or whatever hyperbolic statement you originally made). I think you are as guilty of confirmation bias as those you have accused.I'm not the one that has been contending throughout this thread that the Williams sisters haven't had a significant cultural impact on black women...
I'm not daring anyone to have a contrasting opinion, I'm daring someone to have a good contrasting opinion. I enjoy conversation and discussion, but I can't ignore and let inaccurate positions stand on my watch.
Hang with me. I have to run an errand outside of the house the, but I will be back online in about an hour. You make some interesting points that I would love to address and will address.
Ketch how many times are you & Alex going to post on this hire. Everyone knows you don't like it & want him fired but Herman isn't going to do what you & others want & you and others bitching about it every day isn't going to change it.
If someone has real proof that Horny did something wrong at Baylor lets see it. If not lets try to turn the page on it.
If someone has real proof that Horny did something wrong at Baylor lets see it. If not lets try to turn the page on it.
Why would we turn the page? Why not ask questions? As an alum I am troubled - at best - by this hire. Did you read his tweets? Do you agree that Horny supported Coach Briles well after his Briles was fired and well after numerous allegations came out? Does that not cause you some level of - at a minimum - discomfort in the hire?
Amen. You reported an issue and gave an opinion. This reminds me of England's parliament, if you have ever viewed it.
@sodiumacetate Sorry I'm just now getting to this. Went over to a friend's house and stayed until 2:30 shooting the shit.
QUOTE="sodiumacetate, post: 8335613, member: 9046"]On a macroscopic basis, I don't see how American culture has been forever changed like it has with other sports stories. In a subculture within a subculture within a subculture it probably has had an effect, but I don't see how you can equate that to it being the greatest story in American history (or whatever hyperbolic statement you originally made). [/QUOTE]
It's interesting that this turned into an American culture discussion (thanks @CS) because I think their story can still be unlike anything we've truly ever seen in American sports and has so many highs, lows and more extreme highs. If I went bullet point by bullet point of the things that they overcame, the uniqueness of their story and through all of their accomplishments, I think I can make a very good case that their story ranks as high as anyone. That was the original point made and the discussion kind of veered off into a ditch.
QUOTE="sodiumacetate, post: 8335613, member: 9046"]I think you are as guilty of confirmation bias as those you have accused.[/QUOTE]
There probably is some truth to this because while I know stories of Owens and Ali (for example), I wasn't around to completely live them, which works as a bit of a bias against them because I have lived the Williams sister story. If someone wanted to say I'm wrong and that Ali's full story is No.1, that's probably fair. He's kind of a checkmate move.
Therefore, for the sake of concessions, I'll simply say that the Williams sisters may not have any peers when it comes to their full story, and I say that with all due respect to the US hockey team in 1980, but there has to be some concessions made by those disputing their greatness that
a. The totality of their dominance is pretty overwhelming. Their shelf lives have lasted longer than anyone in this conversation, no?
b. The uniqueness of their story and all of the layers to it only adds to the weight of their accomplishments.
I apologize if I gave off a vibe that you had little familiarity with the black community. It's just that your thoughts on the Williams' sisters impact just didn't sound like my own experience. Wasn't trying to be insulting though, so if I came off that way, I do apologize. I wasn't trying to be ugly.
QUOTE="sodiumacetate, post: 8335613, member: 9046"]On a macroscopic basis, I don't see how American culture has been forever changed like it has with other sports stories. In a subculture within a subculture within a subculture it probably has had an effect, but I don't see how you can equate that to it being the greatest story in American history (or whatever hyperbolic statement you originally made). [/QUOTE]
It's interesting that this turned into an American culture discussion (thanks @CS) because I think their story can still be unlike anything we've truly ever seen in American sports and has so many highs, lows and more extreme highs. If I went bullet point by bullet point of the things that they overcame, the uniqueness of their story and through all of their accomplishments, I think I can make a very good case that their story ranks as high as anyone. That was the original point made and the discussion kind of veered off into a ditch.
QUOTE="sodiumacetate, post: 8335613, member: 9046"]I think you are as guilty of confirmation bias as those you have accused.[/QUOTE]
There probably is some truth to this because while I know stories of Owens and Ali (for example), I wasn't around to completely live them, which works as a bit of a bias against them because I have lived the Williams sister story. If someone wanted to say I'm wrong and that Ali's full story is No.1, that's probably fair. He's kind of a checkmate move.
Therefore, for the sake of concessions, I'll simply say that the Williams sisters may not have any peers when it comes to their full story, and I say that with all due respect to the US hockey team in 1980, but there has to be some concessions made by those disputing their greatness that
a. The totality of their dominance is pretty overwhelming. Their shelf lives have lasted longer than anyone in this conversation, no?
b. The uniqueness of their story and all of the layers to it only adds to the weight of their accomplishments.
a. This is the first thing I've written about it. I haven't really written much on it, although I've engaged in discussion on the board about the topic.
b. There's no proof that Horny did or didn't do anything, which is problematic if accountability means anything.
c. You want to turn the page before we've ever addressed what's on the page? I'm sorry that it is inconvenient, but the victims deserve a little more from all of us that the attention span of a fly. Transparency and accountability must be demanded. It's the bare minimum.
If you had claimed that the Williams sisters are the greatest tennis story in history, I doubt anyone would have challenged it. The problem is trying to take a great story in a niche sport that has had negligible cultural impact and hoisting it up as the the singular greatest story in all of sports history.
What impact have the Williams sisters had beyond one generation out of a demographic that comprises about 6.6 percent of the US population? You keep talking about their impact on that generation of young black women (I'm still not sure how you're an expert on that subject, but I digress), but impacting such a narrow slice of the population doesn't make for the greatest sports story in history. Such a story would transcend racial, gender and sports boundaries in a way no reasonable person can argue the Williams sisters have.
... so let me attempt to interpret this response when compared to the original article ... No one on OB knows if he is guilty!!! What we do know is he defended his old boss and he reported to the scum who covered up and enabled this tragedy to continue !!! As I stated yesterday stay after bu and their many sins, and by following the hush money you will get to where you want to go ...
We don't KNOW that he's not guilty.
That is problematic. We're just going in circles at this point because you're never going to acknowledge the things that need to be acknowledged.
IMO--and this is over years of reading your thoughts--you are biased favorably toward blacks. I think this bit of hyperbole falls into that category. I'm sure you'll disagree, but it's been a distinct pattern throughout your career.
CS, let me remind you of my original remarks.
"The Williams sisters are the greatest story in American sports history."
I didn't say they had the most cultural impact. That is the prism through which you viewed my statement in the discussion and choose to not believe that a great or greatest story has to hinge on the cultural impact made.
Otherwise, I would have not used the word story, I would have said cultural impact.
When I think of their story, I think of every Forrest Gump level detail that led us to this point where these two women from Compton that were taught the game by their non-tennis playing father have gone on to have arguably the greatest combined career of any two siblings in the history of sport. The path their story takes is one of a kind. If that felt like hyperbole, perhaps we just weren't connecting on what "story" means to each of us. Your view of what a story apparently has to include is different than mine.
It's like saying Forrest Gump didn't have one of the best stories of all-time because he didn't make an impact like Ali.
"The Williams sisters are the greatest story in American sports history."
I didn't say they had the most cultural impact. That is the prism through which you viewed my statement in the discussion and choose to not believe that a great or greatest story has to hinge on the cultural impact made.
Otherwise, I would have not used the word story, I would have said cultural impact.
When I think of their story, I think of every Forrest Gump level detail that led us to this point where these two women from Compton that were taught the game by their non-tennis playing father have gone on to have arguably the greatest combined career of any two siblings in the history of sport. The path their story takes is one of a kind. If that felt like hyperbole, perhaps we just weren't connecting on what "story" means to each of us. Your view of what a story apparently has to include is different than mine.
It's like saying Forrest Gump didn't have one of the best stories of all-time because he didn't make an impact like Ali.
GK,
The only circle there is is the one you have created .... Sadly your ego cannot let you see a someone who really supports what your doing!!! Mr. Horney is a tick turd in a box car re: a litany of sins in Waco... What else do I need to acknowledge beyond when and if you find him as one of the cover up enablers let's hope your objectivity can get him banned from ever being a coach again!!! Once again stay after this whole mess it's worth your time ...
When you are publicly biased for some people, it means you are not biased for all people. You have shown a pattern of thought that, IMO, biases toward blacks in particular. That's true across genres like movies, music and, most relevant here, sports.
You either have principles or you don't. Out of principle, everyone involved in that program throughout that entire scandal warrants heavy inspection. How high he ranks on the food chain doesn't matter with this particular principle, especially given all the sideways optics we've been given since the very beginning.
Questions need to be asked.
I'm sorry you're trying to make this about my ego. For the life of me, I can't process not demanding accountability and transparency. If wondering that means my ego is out of control, I suppose I can live with that.
I fail to see how "the greatest story in American sports history" can simultaneously claim that title and lack meaningful cultural impact. And no, it would not be like saying Forrest Gump is one of the best stories of all time. It would be like saying Forrest Gump is the greatest story of all time. That's a very large difference.
You have shown a clear pattern of elevating blacks above other groups. That's what I'm saying.
Well, I specialize in a business that focuses on athletic exploits of humans who are primarily back.
The majority of the Texas football program is made up of young black men. The majority of the Texas basketball program is made up of young black men. The majority of the NFL is made up of black men.
It's interesting that you believe my bias to extend into all areas of discussion. You listed movies. Just for the record, I don't have Fences, Moonlight or Hidden Figures at the top of my Best Picture lists, although they all rank in the top 10. If you look through the entire list, you'll find actors, actresses and directors from all kinds of backgrounds.
Let me just say again, I am biased for black people. You can't be biased for ALL people without being biased for black people at the same time. It's not possible.
You're not biased for all people. You're biased for black people. I agree with you on why you are that way.
I think you're hung up on the word bias. Let's say it differently. You show favoritism toward blacks. If you showed favoritism toward everyone, then you would show favoritism to no one.
I don't know what you're trying to say. I made a statement and did not pose a question; what do you mean when you say there must be an answer?
Your statement depends on how you are using the word biased. If you mean it like "I am for all people, therefore I am for blacks," then that is true enough. If you mean you are literally biased toward all people, then you can't also be biased toward blacks, specifically. I'm not even sure why we're spinning on this point, though.
a. I guess I'll repeat myself.
Your words a moment ago: "You're not biased for all people."
Give me a couple of examples that would prove this to be a true statement.
For instance you also said this, "That's true across genres like movies, music and, most relevant here, sports."
Can you give me an example for each genre (not including the Williams sisters)? Like, do you think I love Otis Redding more because he's black? Over say Van Morrison? Do you think I like Denzel extra special because he's black?
b. I meant the words as they were exactly written. No word play. No games.
Yes or no to the following question: You can't be biased for all people unless you are biased for black people?
If it is impossible for you to answer with a yes or no, that's fine, just politely decline to do so. I won't even ask you why.
Recall your insistence than Prince was the greatest musician of all time? Or was it guitarist? Both? That's and the Williams sisters are but two examples. I don't have time to cull through years of posts to find others. I do think you show favoritism toward blacks, and that is likely the root of your over-inflating the importance of the Williams sisters and their story.
As for the second part, I already answered it. If you mean biased in a folksy, "I'm for all people" way, then the answer is yes. You can't be for all people without being for black people. If you mean it in a literal sense, then no, you can't be biased for all people and biased for black people. Being biased for black people would mean that you are by definition not biased for non-black people. Why is this question of such significance to you?
