Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (What happened in Waco should be personal for all of us...)

[Ketchum]

You keep acting like "this site is the only one making it a topic" is an argument for dropping it, instead of realizing that this is precisely why it cannot be dropped.

Read Nuu's post. The have said they vetted him, but Nuu made no guarantees on what they reviewed in the vetting. Why? Because we know the information available to be considered, and it's not even enough for joke about vetting, much less to count as a credible read of Horny's role at Baylor over that period. We don't have to live in the Texas echo chamber, we can study the case on our own and learn that the information required to vet Horny has not been released. THEREFORE, WE CAN KNOW, WITH CONFIDENCE, THAT DESPITE THE CLAIMS TO THE CONTRARY THAT TEXAS COULD NOT HAVE CREDIBLY VETTED HORNY PRIOR TO THE HIRE. Texas' comments one way or the other are not important to knowing, and having confidence in, that fact.

Sorry people are fatigued. Just think how the victims feel. When Herman brought Horny in, he tied us to him and that situation. It will get much, much more fatiguing before it is over. That is, if the victims have any chance at anything close to justice. I guess if it just disappears than no one has to be bothered by it again.

I pose the question because it probably needs to be asked.

If in the very small chance it turns out that Horny was involved, even to a slight degree, what become the consequences of hiring him?

 

[Alex Dunlap]

Thanks Alex.

For context, is she one of the plaintiff's who filed before last week?

No she has not and will not do anything about it to my knowledge. Just desperately wants to move on in life and put it in the past. I guess it's her way of dealing w/ it.

 

[Ketchum]

- and I am sure that we have a compliance dept. of some sort to make sure this doesn't occur - unless they are not doing their job, as I assume happened at other universities.

I'm guessing compliance would be all for full transparency.

 

[Ketchum]

Herman could have come out and spoken for hours about how much he looked into the guy and some would still claim it means nothing.

That's just a weak attempt at an out. No, I would suggest that kind of transparency and openness would have been heralded by most.

The school waited NINE DAYS after the announcement to make any effort at a statement.

Good grief.

 

[Ketchum]

You could be right but I haven't seen tennis flooded with black females in the last 20 years as a result. Tennis is pretty much dead in the popular US culture whether white of black. I just don't think that the average black female youth knows who they are. Now if we are talking Beyonce as an icon of inspiration for young black females then there is no disagreement. But tennis stars cultural impact today whether black or white is negligible in our society.

Most black women I know would disagree with you strongly about your thoughts on the Williams' sisters.

 

[Santiam]

Baylor should be held accountable for Title IX violations by the federal government. Rapists should go to jail. Those who covered up, interfered with, or gave false information to law enforcement should go to jail. And that includes local law enforcement and prosecutors who helped hide these crimes.

And, you really think that will happen, especially with a new administration in power?

 

[JinSOTEX]

You've got orange glasses on, and it doesn't need to be that way

Like I've said in the past I prob would have not hired him as it's not worth the angst given he's not a coach but I also just don't give enough of a shit over an administrative assistant to be pounding my fist on here daily that he be fired either or be so outraged at Herman. Clearly I'm not alone as this isn't a big subject anywhere else and mostly not even being talked about really. I'd likely ease him out at some point if this story continues but he's not going to be fired now. I (as with many others on here who have expressed the same sentiment) do have an issue with just presuming he's guilty. I think it's obvious Herman thinks he was not involved by whatever level of vetting you think isn't enough and only time will tell how that decision plays out. The fatigue is we know how you and others stand. We got it the first 2,328 times it was mentioned in the daily threads. We are where we are and there is likely little to no pressure on UT at this point to even do anything. A few emails from a couple of orangebloods posters likely went straight to the delete box

 

[PaperChampion]

I feel bad for the fans, students, graduates and uninvolved players of the Baylor program just like I did for their Penn State counterparts.

But feeling a little bit bad for those thousands of people doesn't come close to the horror I feel for the actual victims of the crimes in both situations.

And I have a special dose of vitriol for the supporters of both schools who aren't livid at their own institutions, demanding full disclosure and transparency. F those d-bags.

Vitriol for fans of UT who don't "demand" full disclosure and transparency? Who are you to demand anything of the university or of the head coach of Texas? In common terms: "you ain't nobody."

Save your demands for when you are hired as the president, AD or head coach of Texas. Until then, you still ain't nobody!

 

[jspirohorn]

I think Herman should sit Horny down and ask him to resign. He should apologize but tell Horny that he underestimated the blowback from hiring someone from the Baylor football program at the current time. It sucks but would best for both parties to move on separately, etc., etc. Maybe things change in a couple of years.

 

[Ketchum]

I also just don't give enough of a shit over an administrative assistant to be pounding my fist on here daily

This is the big piece of the problem in the point your making.

In a matter of principles, his job title shouldn't matter a bit. I suppose if he was a defensive backs coach, you'd feel different?

That's a flawed set of thinking or principles, IMO.

 

[Ketchum]

Vitriol for fans of UT who don't "demand" full disclosure and transparency? Who are you to demand anything of the university or of the head coach of Texas? In common terms: "you ain't nobody."

Save your demands for when you are hired as the president, AD or head coach of Texas. Until then, you still ain't nobody!

Signed,
Baylor fans everywhere in 2015-16.

 

[Dos Horns]

Appreciate the response @Dos Horns and my apologies on the previous inflammatory response.

No apology necessary. I'm stil stunned by what I've seen in the public arena, frankly. At this point, I can only see it as a tragedy for all involved and wait for more facts to come out. I'm pretty sure there is plenty of blame to go around.

 

[PaperChampion]

Signed,
Baylor fans everywhere in 2015-16.

Ok, now I'm a Baylor fan again. You were born a few centuries too late. You would have been perfect as an inquisitor, of the Spanish variety!

 

[WI]

No she has not and will not do anything about it to my knowledge. Just desperately wants to move on in life and put it in the past. I guess it's her way of dealing w/ it.

Good points. Thanks.

I do hope that after NSD that you and Ketch will carefully read the book that I mentioned to you earlier. I do sense your passion about these tragedies of victims of sexual assault (and sometimes the accused), and perhaps the book can add some additional context.

I asked you some simple and direct questions (on Saturday evening, I believe) and if you answered them, I missed them. Pardon some duplication:

Do you believe that the liability of universities for crimes of their students should be expanded?

Have you read the book and other articles that I have mentioned, and if so, do you agree with them?

Do you believe that sexual assault cases could be better handled by universities or by law enforcement and the criminal justice system?

As one of the organizers of the vigil at Baylor has been very public about what happened to her at Baylor, what efforts did you make to verify the elements of her story?

If the Dear Colleague letter is not binding (per some Dept. of Ed officials) and is not statue or regulation, would it help your readers to understand that in stories that you or others write about it? Especially, when not following the guidance might be asserted as being in violation of federal law.

Thanks

 

[sodiumacetate]

You don't think their success has had a cultural impact? We're going to have to agree to disagree.

That's just ridiculous.

How has it impacted American culture one iota? Tennis wasn't culturally relevant before and it's not culturally relevant now. Tiger Woods made golf relevant in an unprecedented way. His story isn't a great one, but his cultural impact is orders of magnitude greater than that of the Williams sisters.

 

[PaulieD]

I'm guessing compliance would be all for full transparency.

should be - but we have seen this break down in certain situations, I don't know why.

 

[PaperChampion]

Also, Ketch, you would have been very good in the role of the large nun in Game of Thrones. Confess! Confess! Confess!!!

 

[PaulieD]

I pose the question because it probably needs to be asked.

If in the very small chance it turns out that Horny was involved, even to a slight degree, what become the consequences of hiring him?

- what I personally hope is that by OB asking the question then Horn addresses this issue. If he were FI to say "I supported Coach Briles, but totally decry the abuse" or something like that, then I think this goes away? I'm not saying it the way I want....

 

[DrHorn98]

Wow, #1 just drives the whole wretched Baylor thing home. Until I read that, I had no idea that Horny was that close to the action - where the rubber meets the road so to speak. For the very first time I now believe that he was totally aware the entire time and is no less snarky than the rest of them. Ugh - fold up your table CTH, Horny needs to 1) get suddenly sick and resign, 2) have a family emergency and resign, 3) be terminated immediately. You and Perrin blessed him, now up to you to pick your poison, 1, 2, or 3.

 

[86Horn]

It's not just the athletes that have to be accountable. It's everyone.

Trusting people because "he's the coach" is one of the mindsets that got us here.

I agree with this. The elevation of athletics above common morality is problematic.

 

[I Hear Voices]

People just have horny fatigue. For the most part this site is the only one making it a big topic. I scanned inside texas earlier going back several days and could find very little mention or discussion. Certainly no large outrage or people demanding answers. I'm guessing 247 is the same. Texas being mentioned with this is certainly not remotely a national story. Hell 99% of the General Texas fanbase outside the small fringe online likely doesn't even know who Horny is and prob never will since he's not a coach. I think people saying let it go are Just tired of the constant daily threads here when you aren't seeing this outrage outside of here.

Sometimes the frequent reporting on and reminders of a given abuse or outrageous situation actually can make a big difference when addressing a wrong(s). That process of staying on top of a really bad situation when no one else - or no news organization - was doing so has often brought meaningful change and enlightenment.

Perhaps in your lifetime you remember that the Washington Post stayed on top of the Watergate scandal when no one else did. Hollywood made a movie about it called "All The President's Men."

And the Boston Globe stayed on top of abuse of children by Catholic priests. Perhaps you saw the recent movie "Spotlight" which was based on that dogged effort.

And give credit also to Seymour Hersh for his determination to bring forth the previously unknown atrocities that occurred in the South Vietnamese village of My Lai.

These are just three situations that I can quickly think of where a bunch of dedicated members of the news media made a huge difference in getting society and government officials to pay attention to something that needed to be addressed. And in each instance the reporters had an uphill fight to get any information. They were often intimidated, and frequently told to go away because "no one else is on this story but you."

And I'd bet you a cup of coffee that there is even more to Baylor's story than any of us know at present.

 

[PaperChampion]

Matt Mosley, contributor to the DMN: "...I don't think I'd heard Horny's name over the years. No one really has any idea what level of involvement he may have had in the scandal. It looks like Herman's throwing a life raft to a guy by giving him a relatively low-level position..."

Anyone who KNOWS more than Mosley should contact him or some other true journalist and explain. No complainer on this board would, in court, utter more than two sentences before they heard the words: Objection, speculation; or Objection, hearsay; or Objection, no personal knowledge, quickly followed by: SUSTAINED! Wow!!! Just wow!!!

 

[texaspaulo]

Also, Ketch, you would have been very good in the role of the large nun in Game of Thrones. Confess! Confess! Confess!!!

Dude, I respect the discussion you brought to other threads, though I vehemently disagree with your takes, but this is just full potato. Take a break.

 

[texaspaulo]

Sometimes the frequent reporting on and reminders of a given abuse or outrageous situation actually can make a big difference when addressing a wrong(s). That process of staying on top of a really bad situation when no one else - or no news organization - was doing so has often brought meaningful change and enlightenment.

Perhaps in your lifetime you remember that the Washington Post stayed on top of the Watergate scandal when no one else did. Hollywood made a movie about it called "All The President's Men."

And the Boston Globe stayed on top of abuse of children by Catholic priests. Perhaps you saw the recent movie "Spotlight" which was based on that dogged effort.

And give credit also to Seymour Hersh for his determination to bring forth the previously unknown atrocities that occurred in the South Vietnamese village of My Lai.

These are just three situations that I can quickly think of where a bunch of dedicated members of the news media made a huge difference in getting society and government officials to pay attention to something that needed to be addressed. And in each instance the reporters had an uphill fight to get any information. They were often intimidated, and frequently told to go away because "no one else is on this story but you."

And I'd bet you a cup of coffee that there is even more to Baylor's story than any of us know at present.

Best post of the thread. @Ketchum @Alex Dunlap and @Anwar Richardson should print this and hang it next to their computers. Don't give up the fight gents.

 

[WI]

Matt Mosley, contributor to the DMN: "...I don't think I'd heard Horny's name over the years. No one really has any idea what level of involvement he may have had in the scandal. It looks like Herman's throwing a life raft to a guy by giving him a relatively low-level position..."

Anyone who KNOWS more than Mosley should contact him or some other true journalist and explain. No complainer on this board would, in court, utter more than two sentences before they heard the words: Objection, speculation; or Objection, hearsay; or Objection, no personal knowledge, quickly followed by: SUSTAINED! Wow!!! Just wow!!!

I think that you, I, and a few others are in the minority here.

I hope that Alex and Ketch will take a few moments to answer the questions I asked in post 254 above. I think that would add perspective to their opinions. Ketch calls for transparency, but, IMO, until today he left out some significant points. If the alleged assailant has been convicted, could he not also at least say who that was? That might be helpful in understanding the full picture.

 

[JinSOTEX]

And I'd bet you a cup of coffee that there is even more to Baylor's story than any of us know at present.

I'm sure and not saying the overall Baylor story shouldn't be talked about and it's a national story. Texas hiring someone to sit in a room and watch film that's never been even rumored to be involved just doesn't register on the meter which is why the story just has little to no legs outside here so far

 

[DrHorn98]

Let's be honest. It's personal for anyone who knows a sexual assault victim and more so for those of us who have them in our families. It will always be personal because assholes like this Horny morther****er PUBLICLY SHAMED any woman who had the gall to speak out. #truthdontlie my big white ass. He called them all liars and assisted the campaign of misinformation designed to make these woman feel violated even yet again and help those responsible escape without punishment or scrutiny.

Nothing I've said above is conjecture. It's fact. That alone is enough to bar him from ever walking into a room in any capacity as a representative of UT.

NSD will be interesting. I feel like we're going to have a fine team this season on the field. Very interested to see how Herman handles Stoops for round 2. You've got to believe that he's eyeing the hell out of that game.

Or for someone who was one.

 

[WI]

Sometimes the frequent reporting on and reminders of a given abuse or outrageous situation actually can make a big difference when addressing a wrong(s). That process of staying on top of a really bad situation when no one else - or no news organization - was doing so has often brought meaningful change and enlightenment.

Perhaps in your lifetime you remember that the Washington Post stayed on top of the Watergate scandal when no one else did. Hollywood made a movie about it called "All The President's Men."

And the Boston Globe stayed on top of abuse of children by Catholic priests. Perhaps you saw the recent movie "Spotlight" which was based on that dogged effort.

And give credit also to Seymour Hersh for his determination to bring forth the previously unknown atrocities that occurred in the South Vietnamese village of My Lai.

These are just three situations that I can quickly think of where a bunch of dedicated members of the news media made a huge difference in getting society and government officials to pay attention to something that needed to be addressed. And in each instance the reporters had an uphill fight to get any information. They were often intimidated, and frequently told to go away because "no one else is on this story but you."

And I'd bet you a cup of coffee that there is even more to Baylor's story than any of us know at present.

I respect your opinion and you make some excellent points.

From a different perspective, the issue of sexual assaults on campus have received a lot of attention in recent years, especially since the 2011 Dear Colleague Letter. The Duke case (eleven years ago) and the Virginia story received national coverage. Across the country, there has been a lot of coverage about cases at various universities.

There is no shortage of reporters who would like to kind out more about scandal at universities, including Baylor. Even the Bears for Leadership Reform would like more information.

For more thoughts, look up the article, "The Media is Making College Rape Culture Worse" by Christina Hoff Sommers in The Daily Beast - 1-23-15.

If you want more detailed information about how the news is reported, check out the chapter on "Media Malpractice" in the new book, The Campus Rape Frenzy.

I hope this helps.

 

[PaperChampion]

If it turns out that Horny knew of a cover up, Herman will pay the price for hiring him. Until then, let it go, IMO.

 

[WI]

Matt Mosley, contributor to the DMN: "...I don't think I'd heard Horny's name over the years. No one really has any idea what level of involvement he may have had in the scandal. It looks like Herman's throwing a life raft to a guy by giving him a relatively low-level position..."

Anyone who KNOWS more than Mosley should contact him or some other true journalist and explain. No complainer on this board would, in court, utter more than two sentences before they heard the words: Objection, speculation; or Objection, hearsay; or Objection, no personal knowledge, quickly followed by: SUSTAINED! Wow!!! Just wow!!!

Paper Champion,

I added a couple of references a few of minutes ago in my response to I Hear Voices.