And, you really think that will happen, especially with a new administration in power?
Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (What happened in Waco should be personal for all of us...)
- Thread starter Ketchum
- Start date
Like I've said in the past I prob would have not hired him as it's not worth the angst given he's not a coach but I also just don't give enough of a shit over an administrative assistant to be pounding my fist on here daily that he be fired either or be so outraged at Herman. Clearly I'm not alone as this isn't a big subject anywhere else and mostly not even being talked about really. I'd likely ease him out at some point if this story continues but he's not going to be fired now. I (as with many others on here who have expressed the same sentiment) do have an issue with just presuming he's guilty. I think it's obvious Herman thinks he was not involved by whatever level of vetting you think isn't enough and only time will tell how that decision plays out. The fatigue is we know how you and others stand. We got it the first 2,328 times it was mentioned in the daily threads. We are where we are and there is likely little to no pressure on UT at this point to even do anything. A few emails from a couple of orangebloods posters likely went straight to the delete box
Vitriol for fans of UT who don't "demand" full disclosure and transparency? Who are you to demand anything of the university or of the head coach of Texas? In common terms: "you ain't nobody."
Save your demands for when you are hired as the president, AD or head coach of Texas. Until then, you still ain't nobody!
I think Herman should sit Horny down and ask him to resign. He should apologize but tell Horny that he underestimated the blowback from hiring someone from the Baylor football program at the current time. It sucks but would best for both parties to move on separately, etc., etc. Maybe things change in a couple of years.
This is the big piece of the problem in the point your making.
In a matter of principles, his job title shouldn't matter a bit. I suppose if he was a defensive backs coach, you'd feel different?
That's a flawed set of thinking or principles, IMO.
No apology necessary. I'm stil stunned by what I've seen in the public arena, frankly. At this point, I can only see it as a tragedy for all involved and wait for more facts to come out. I'm pretty sure there is plenty of blame to go around.
Ok, now I'm a Baylor fan again. You were born a few centuries too late. You would have been perfect as an inquisitor, of the Spanish variety!
Good points. Thanks.
I do hope that after NSD that you and Ketch will carefully read the book that I mentioned to you earlier. I do sense your passion about these tragedies of victims of sexual assault (and sometimes the accused), and perhaps the book can add some additional context.
I asked you some simple and direct questions (on Saturday evening, I believe) and if you answered them, I missed them. Pardon some duplication:
Do you believe that the liability of universities for crimes of their students should be expanded?
Have you read the book and other articles that I have mentioned, and if so, do you agree with them?
Do you believe that sexual assault cases could be better handled by universities or by law enforcement and the criminal justice system?
As one of the organizers of the vigil at Baylor has been very public about what happened to her at Baylor, what efforts did you make to verify the elements of her story?
If the Dear Colleague letter is not binding (per some Dept. of Ed officials) and is not statue or regulation, would it help your readers to understand that in stories that you or others write about it? Especially, when not following the guidance might be asserted as being in violation of federal law.
Thanks
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How has it impacted American culture one iota? Tennis wasn't culturally relevant before and it's not culturally relevant now. Tiger Woods made golf relevant in an unprecedented way. His story isn't a great one, but his cultural impact is orders of magnitude greater than that of the Williams sisters.
should be - but we have seen this break down in certain situations, I don't know why.
Also, Ketch, you would have been very good in the role of the large nun in Game of Thrones. Confess! Confess! Confess!!!
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- what I personally hope is that by OB asking the question then Horn addresses this issue. If he were FI to say "I supported Coach Briles, but totally decry the abuse" or something like that, then I think this goes away? I'm not saying it the way I want....
Wow, #1 just drives the whole wretched Baylor thing home. Until I read that, I had no idea that Horny was that close to the action - where the rubber meets the road so to speak. For the very first time I now believe that he was totally aware the entire time and is no less snarky than the rest of them. Ugh - fold up your table CTH, Horny needs to 1) get suddenly sick and resign, 2) have a family emergency and resign, 3) be terminated immediately. You and Perrin blessed him, now up to you to pick your poison, 1, 2, or 3.
I agree with this. The elevation of athletics above common morality is problematic.
Sometimes the frequent reporting on and reminders of a given abuse or outrageous situation actually can make a big difference when addressing a wrong(s). That process of staying on top of a really bad situation when no one else - or no news organization - was doing so has often brought meaningful change and enlightenment.
Perhaps in your lifetime you remember that the Washington Post stayed on top of the Watergate scandal when no one else did. Hollywood made a movie about it called "All The President's Men."
And the Boston Globe stayed on top of abuse of children by Catholic priests. Perhaps you saw the recent movie "Spotlight" which was based on that dogged effort.
And give credit also to Seymour Hersh for his determination to bring forth the previously unknown atrocities that occurred in the South Vietnamese village of My Lai.
These are just three situations that I can quickly think of where a bunch of dedicated members of the news media made a huge difference in getting society and government officials to pay attention to something that needed to be addressed. And in each instance the reporters had an uphill fight to get any information. They were often intimidated, and frequently told to go away because "no one else is on this story but you."
And I'd bet you a cup of coffee that there is even more to Baylor's story than any of us know at present.
Matt Mosley, contributor to the DMN: "...I don't think I'd heard Horny's name over the years. No one really has any idea what level of involvement he may have had in the scandal. It looks like Herman's throwing a life raft to a guy by giving him a relatively low-level position..."
Anyone who KNOWS more than Mosley should contact him or some other true journalist and explain. No complainer on this board would, in court, utter more than two sentences before they heard the words: Objection, speculation; or Objection, hearsay; or Objection, no personal knowledge, quickly followed by: SUSTAINED! Wow!!! Just wow!!!
Anyone who KNOWS more than Mosley should contact him or some other true journalist and explain. No complainer on this board would, in court, utter more than two sentences before they heard the words: Objection, speculation; or Objection, hearsay; or Objection, no personal knowledge, quickly followed by: SUSTAINED! Wow!!! Just wow!!!
Dude, I respect the discussion you brought to other threads, though I vehemently disagree with your takes, but this is just full potato. Take a break.
Best post of the thread. @Ketchum @Alex Dunlap and @Anwar Richardson should print this and hang it next to their computers. Don't give up the fight gents.
I think that you, I, and a few others are in the minority here.
I hope that Alex and Ketch will take a few moments to answer the questions I asked in post 254 above. I think that would add perspective to their opinions. Ketch calls for transparency, but, IMO, until today he left out some significant points. If the alleged assailant has been convicted, could he not also at least say who that was? That might be helpful in understanding the full picture.
I'm sure and not saying the overall Baylor story shouldn't be talked about and it's a national story. Texas hiring someone to sit in a room and watch film that's never been even rumored to be involved just doesn't register on the meter which is why the story just has little to no legs outside here so far
I respect your opinion and you make some excellent points.
From a different perspective, the issue of sexual assaults on campus have received a lot of attention in recent years, especially since the 2011 Dear Colleague Letter. The Duke case (eleven years ago) and the Virginia story received national coverage. Across the country, there has been a lot of coverage about cases at various universities.
There is no shortage of reporters who would like to kind out more about scandal at universities, including Baylor. Even the Bears for Leadership Reform would like more information.
For more thoughts, look up the article, "The Media is Making College Rape Culture Worse" by Christina Hoff Sommers in The Daily Beast - 1-23-15.
If you want more detailed information about how the news is reported, check out the chapter on "Media Malpractice" in the new book, The Campus Rape Frenzy.
I hope this helps.
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If it turns out that Horny knew of a cover up, Herman will pay the price for hiring him. Until then, let it go, IMO.
Paper Champion,
I added a couple of references a few of minutes ago in my response to I Hear Voices.
You never want to be the 3rd person in a grouping of similar people with Lane Kiffin and Todd Graham. Hot damn that is bad company.
A friend and fellow alum who doesn't follow this stuff nearly as closely as most of us said this to me last night.
"At best Herman has shown he is a little ignorant to the whole scope of the Baylor situation. I think he is going to get peppered with questions on Signing Day and be upset. He has been working 100 hour weeks since July and insanely busy. Is he unfamiliar enough with the Baylor situation to get frustrated and say something like "I just want to talk about football" or "can we just talk about recruits?"
I told him certainly Bianco has informed him to avoid saying shit like that, but it was an unpleasant thought. I don't think it will happen.
I am disappointed so many Longhorns are "fatigued." That is exactly what Baylor wanted from people.
We can all speculate about what the Assistant Director of Football Operations who was at Baylor for Briles full tenure may or may not have known, but it doesn't really matter. He isn't being tried for a crime. We are discussing if we should have hired him and/or should fire him. Here are the facts of the case that are not in dispute:
He publicly supported CAB until the bitter end.
He publicly attacked the media in July for investigating.
He publicly attacked the media again on December 13 in support of Briles.
He publicly signed a tweet in November supporting Briles.
He publicly tweeted #truthdontlie multiple times which openly implies the rape victims are liars and further intimidates future victims from speaking publicly.
These are HIS actions. He is guilty of taking these actions. These public actions mean he is either complicit or ignorant/tone deaf to the seriousness of the situation. They all reflect poorly on us for associating ourselves with him. He should not work at Texas because of HIS DIRECT ACTIONS. No speculation or suspending disbelief is necessary.
He only deleted the Tweets when the social media backlash began (furthering @Good.Shepherd 's point about no real vetting). He has issued no statement clarifying his intentions or apologizing. Herman answered a few softballs on the Longhorn flagship radio station and has released no statement. Perrin was asleep at the wheel and Herman was tone deaf. We will be brought up every single time a new Baylor fact is released. That is one of the prices Herman chose to pay (or wasn't aware would have to be paid) by hiring him.
I hope @Ketchum @Anwar Richardson and @Alex Dunlap ask appropriate questions Wednesday.
A friend and fellow alum who doesn't follow this stuff nearly as closely as most of us said this to me last night.
"At best Herman has shown he is a little ignorant to the whole scope of the Baylor situation. I think he is going to get peppered with questions on Signing Day and be upset. He has been working 100 hour weeks since July and insanely busy. Is he unfamiliar enough with the Baylor situation to get frustrated and say something like "I just want to talk about football" or "can we just talk about recruits?"
I told him certainly Bianco has informed him to avoid saying shit like that, but it was an unpleasant thought. I don't think it will happen.
I am disappointed so many Longhorns are "fatigued." That is exactly what Baylor wanted from people.
We can all speculate about what the Assistant Director of Football Operations who was at Baylor for Briles full tenure may or may not have known, but it doesn't really matter. He isn't being tried for a crime. We are discussing if we should have hired him and/or should fire him. Here are the facts of the case that are not in dispute:
He publicly supported CAB until the bitter end.
He publicly attacked the media in July for investigating.
He publicly attacked the media again on December 13 in support of Briles.
He publicly signed a tweet in November supporting Briles.
He publicly tweeted #truthdontlie multiple times which openly implies the rape victims are liars and further intimidates future victims from speaking publicly.
These are HIS actions. He is guilty of taking these actions. These public actions mean he is either complicit or ignorant/tone deaf to the seriousness of the situation. They all reflect poorly on us for associating ourselves with him. He should not work at Texas because of HIS DIRECT ACTIONS. No speculation or suspending disbelief is necessary.
He only deleted the Tweets when the social media backlash began (furthering @Good.Shepherd 's point about no real vetting). He has issued no statement clarifying his intentions or apologizing. Herman answered a few softballs on the Longhorn flagship radio station and has released no statement. Perrin was asleep at the wheel and Herman was tone deaf. We will be brought up every single time a new Baylor fact is released. That is one of the prices Herman chose to pay (or wasn't aware would have to be paid) by hiring him.
I hope @Ketchum @Anwar Richardson and @Alex Dunlap ask appropriate questions Wednesday.
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No, you're not a Baylor fan, again. You're just saying the types of things that Baylor fans have said in the past in an effort to move along.
I would offer a world that was impacted the most is one you aren't possibly as familiar with as others.
And you would have been very good in one of the roles that led to the Red Wedding. Maybe Black Walder.
nun
That's problematic.
Turn your brain on.
"No one really has any idea what level of involvement he may have had in the scandal."
That's problematic.
Turn your brain on.
Question from a Mod:
"One of our respected posters said that Perrin was asleep at the wheel and that you were tone deaf. Do you agree?"
Herman (with an appropriate pause and stare):
"No. I think that Mike is doing a great job, and he's very smart. Now let's talk football."
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