Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (What happened in Waco should be personal for all of us...)

[Ketchum]

Ketch how many times are you & Alex going to post on this hire. Everyone knows you don't like it & want him fired but Herman isn't going to do what you & others want & you and others bitching about it every day isn't going to change it.
If someone has real proof that Horny did something wrong at Baylor lets see it. If not lets try to turn the page on it.

a. This is the first thing I've written about it. I haven't really written much on it, although I've engaged in discussion on the board about the topic.

b. There's no proof that Horny did or didn't do anything, which is problematic if accountability means anything.

c. You want to turn the page before we've ever addressed what's on the page? I'm sorry that it is inconvenient, but the victims deserve a little more from all of us that the attention span of a fly. Transparency and accountability must be demanded. It's the bare minimum.

 

[CS]

a. The totality of their dominance is pretty overwhelming. Their shelf lives have lasted longer than anyone in this conversation, no?
b. The uniqueness of their story and all of the layers to it only adds to the weight of their accomplishments.

If you had claimed that the Williams sisters are the greatest tennis story in history, I doubt anyone would have challenged it. The problem is trying to take a great story in a niche sport that has had negligible cultural impact and hoisting it up as the the singular greatest story in all of sports history.

 

[CS]

What I know is that a generation of young black women, and black people in general, view the Williams sisters as something more than you seem to believe.

I'm not preaching to you. I'm simply expressing what I believe to know based on two decades of observation.

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Just type in Williams sisters into a Twitter search engine and read the comments.

What impact have the Williams sisters had beyond one generation out of a demographic that comprises about 6.6 percent of the US population? You keep talking about their impact on that generation of young black women (I'm still not sure how you're an expert on that subject, but I digress), but impacting such a narrow slice of the population doesn't make for the greatest sports story in history. Such a story would transcend racial, gender and sports boundaries in a way no reasonable person can argue the Williams sisters have.

 

[Ketchum]

If you had claimed that the Williams sisters are the greatest tennis story in history, I doubt anyone would have challenged it. The problem is trying to take a great story in a niche sport that has had negligible cultural impact and hoisting it up as the the singular greatest story in all of sports history.

I don't believe enough consideration is being given by you and many in this thread to the incredible uniqueness to their story.

I'm not going to change your mind at all, but that's what I would simply state.

 

[sy1804]

There's no evidence that he wasn't involved.

... so let me attempt to interpret this response when compared to the original article ... No one on OB knows if he is guilty!!! What we do know is he defended his old boss and he reported to the scum who covered up and enabled this tragedy to continue !!! As I stated yesterday stay after bu and their many sins, and by following the hush money you will get to where you want to go ...

 

[Ketchum]

What impact have the Williams sisters had beyond one generation out of a demographic that comprises about 6.6 percent of the US population? You keep talking about their impact on that generation of young black women (I'm still not sure how you're an expert on that subject, but I digress), but impacting such a narrow slice of the population doesn't make for the greatest sports story in history. Such a story would transcend racial, gender and sports boundaries in a way no reasonable person can argue the Williams sisters have.

Cultural impact is just one way to view the conversation.

I choose to view it from other prisms.

I think I've explained it throughout the discussion. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Ketchum]

... so let me attempt to interpret this response when compared to the original article ... No one on OB knows if he is guilty!!! What we do know is he defended his old boss and he reported to the scum who covered up and enabled this tragedy to continue !!! As I stated yesterday stay after bu and their many sins, and by following the hush money you will get to where you want to go ...

We don't KNOW that he's not guilty.

That is problematic. We're just going in circles at this point because you're never going to acknowledge the things that need to be acknowledged.

 

[CS]

Cultural impact is just one way to view the conversation.

I choose to view it from other prisms.

I think I've explained it throughout the discussion. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

IMO--and this is over years of reading your thoughts--you are biased favorably toward blacks. I think this bit of hyperbole falls into that category. I'm sure you'll disagree, but it's been a distinct pattern throughout your career.

 

[Ketchum]

IMO--and this is over years of reading your thoughts--you are biased favorably toward blacks. I think this bit of hyperbole falls into that category. I'm sure you'll disagree, but it's been a distinct pattern throughout your career.

I am biased for black people.

I am biased for brown people.

I am biased for gay people.

I am biased for weird people.

I'd like to think I'm biased for all types of people.

I hope with all of my heart that it's a distinct pattern throughout my career.

 

[Ketchum]

CS, let me remind you of my original remarks.

"The Williams sisters are the greatest story in American sports history."

I didn't say they had the most cultural impact. That is the prism through which you viewed my statement in the discussion and choose to not believe that a great or greatest story has to hinge on the cultural impact made.

Otherwise, I would have not used the word story, I would have said cultural impact.

When I think of their story, I think of every Forrest Gump level detail that led us to this point where these two women from Compton that were taught the game by their non-tennis playing father have gone on to have arguably the greatest combined career of any two siblings in the history of sport. The path their story takes is one of a kind. If that felt like hyperbole, perhaps we just weren't connecting on what "story" means to each of us. Your view of what a story apparently has to include is different than mine.

It's like saying Forrest Gump didn't have one of the best stories of all-time because he didn't make an impact like Ali.

 

[sy1804]

We don't KNOW that he's not guilty.

That is problematic. We're just going in circles at this point because you're never going to acknowledge the things that need to be acknowledged.

GK,

The only circle there is is the one you have created .... Sadly your ego cannot let you see a someone who really supports what your doing!!! Mr. Horney is a tick turd in a box car re: a litany of sins in Waco... What else do I need to acknowledge beyond when and if you find him as one of the cover up enablers let's hope your objectivity can get him banned from ever being a coach again!!! Once again stay after this whole mess it's worth your time ...

 

[CS]

I am biased for black people.

I am biased for brown people.

I am biased for gay people.

I am biased for weird people.

I'd like to think I'm biased for all types of people.

I hope with all of my heart that it's a distinct pattern throughout my career.

When you are publicly biased for some people, it means you are not biased for all people. You have shown a pattern of thought that, IMO, biases toward blacks in particular. That's true across genres like movies, music and, most relevant here, sports.

 

[Ketchum]

GK,

The only circle there is is the one you have created .... Sadly your ego cannot let you see a someone who really supports what your doing!!! Mr. Horney is a tick turd in a box car re: a litany of sins in Waco... What else do I need to acknowledge beyond when and if you find him as one of the cover up enablers let's hope your objectivity can get him banned from ever being a coach again!!! Once again stay after this whole mess it's worth your time ...

You either have principles or you don't. Out of principle, everyone involved in that program throughout that entire scandal warrants heavy inspection. How high he ranks on the food chain doesn't matter with this particular principle, especially given all the sideways optics we've been given since the very beginning.

Questions need to be asked.

I'm sorry you're trying to make this about my ego. For the life of me, I can't process not demanding accountability and transparency. If wondering that means my ego is out of control, I suppose I can live with that.

 

[CS]

CS, let me remind you of my original remarks.

"The Williams sisters are the greatest story in American sports history."

I didn't say they had the most cultural impact. That is the prism through which you viewed my statement in the discussion and choose to not believe that a great or greatest story has to hinge on the cultural impact made.

Otherwise, I would have not used the word story, I would have said cultural impact.

When I think of their story, I think of every Forrest Gump level detail that led us to this point where these two women from Compton that were taught the game by their non-tennis playing father have gone on to have arguably the greatest combined career of any two siblings in the history of sport. The path their story takes is one of a kind. If that felt like hyperbole, perhaps we just weren't connecting on what "story" means to each of us. Your view of what a story apparently has to include is different than mine.

It's like saying Forrest Gump didn't have one of the best stories of all-time because he didn't make an impact like Ali.

I fail to see how "the greatest story in American sports history" can simultaneously claim that title and lack meaningful cultural impact. And no, it would not be like saying Forrest Gump is one of the best stories of all time. It would be like saying Forrest Gump is the greatest story of all time. That's a very large difference.

 

[Ketchum]

When you are publicly biased for some people, it means you are not biased for all people. You have shown a pattern of thought that, IMO, biases toward blacks in particular. That's true across genres like movies, music and, most relevant here, sports.

You can't be biased for all people, unless you are biased for black people.

Indeed, I am biased for black people.

 

[Ketchum]

I fail to see how "the greatest story in American sports history" can simultaneously claim that title and lack meaningful cultural impact. And no, it would not be like saying Forrest Gump is one of the best stories of all time. It would be like saying Forrest Gump is the greatest story of all time. That's a very large difference.

You could make a case that Forrest Gump is the greatest sports story of all-time.

 

[CS]

You can't be biased for all people, unless you are biased for black people.

Indeed, I am biased for black people.

You have shown a clear pattern of elevating blacks above other groups. That's what I'm saying.

 

[Ketchum]

You have shown a clear pattern of elevating blacks above other groups. That's what I'm saying.

Well, I specialize in a business that focuses on athletic exploits of humans who are primarily back.

The majority of the Texas football program is made up of young black men. The majority of the Texas basketball program is made up of young black men. The majority of the NFL is made up of black men.

It's interesting that you believe my bias to extend into all areas of discussion. You listed movies. Just for the record, I don't have Fences, Moonlight or Hidden Figures at the top of my Best Picture lists, although they all rank in the top 10. If you look through the entire list, you'll find actors, actresses and directors from all kinds of backgrounds.

Let me just say again, I am biased for black people. You can't be biased for ALL people without being biased for black people at the same time. It's not possible.

 

[CS]

Well, I specialize in a business that focuses on athletic exploits of humans who are primarily back.

The majority of the Texas football program is made up of young black men. The majority of the Texas basketball program is made up of young black men. The majority of the NFL is made up of black men.

It's interesting that you believe my bias to extend into all areas of discussion. You listed movies. Just for the record, I don't have Fences, Moonlight or Hidden Figures at the top of my Best Picture lists, although they all rank in the top 10. If you look through the entire list, you'll find actors, actresses and directors from all kinds of backgrounds.

Let me just say again, I am biased for black people. You can't be biased for ALL people without being biased for black people at the same time. It's not possible.

You're not biased for all people. You're biased for black people. I agree with you on why you are that way.

 

[Ketchum]

You're not biased for all people. You're biased for black people. I agree with you on why you are that way.

What people am I not biased for?

 

[CS]

What people am I not biased for?

I think you're hung up on the word bias. Let's say it differently. You show favoritism toward blacks. If you showed favoritism toward everyone, then you would show favoritism to no one.

 

[Ketchum]

I think you're hung up on the word bias. Let's say it differently. You show favoritism toward blacks. If you showed favoritism toward everyone, then you would show favoritism to no one.

Your words a moment ago: "You're not biased for all people."

In order for that to be true, there has to be an answer. What's the answer?

Also, would you agree that the following statement is factual: "You can't be biased for all people unless you are biased for black people."?

 

[CS]

Your words a moment ago: "You're not biased for all people."

In order for that to be true, there has to be an answer. What's the answer?

Also, would you agree that the following statement is factual: "You can't be biased for all people unless you are biased for black people."?

I don't know what you're trying to say. I made a statement and did not pose a question; what do you mean when you say there must be an answer?

Your statement depends on how you are using the word biased. If you mean it like "I am for all people, therefore I am for blacks," then that is true enough. If you mean you are literally biased toward all people, then you can't also be biased toward blacks, specifically. I'm not even sure why we're spinning on this point, though.

 

[Ketchum]

I don't know what you're trying to say. I made a statement and did not pose a question; what do you mean when you say there must be an answer?

Your statement depends on how you are using the word biased. If you mean it like "I am for all people, therefore I am for blacks," then that is true enough. If you mean you are literally biased toward all people, then you can't also be biased toward blacks, specifically. I'm not even sure why we're spinning on this point, though.

a. I guess I'll repeat myself.

Your words a moment ago: "You're not biased for all people."

Give me a couple of examples that would prove this to be a true statement.

For instance you also said this, "That's true across genres like movies, music and, most relevant here, sports."

Can you give me an example for each genre (not including the Williams sisters)? Like, do you think I love Otis Redding more because he's black? Over say Van Morrison? Do you think I like Denzel extra special because he's black?

b. I meant the words as they were exactly written. No word play. No games.

Yes or no to the following question: You can't be biased for all people unless you are biased for black people?

If it is impossible for you to answer with a yes or no, that's fine, just politely decline to do so. I won't even ask you why.

 

[CS]

a. I guess I'll repeat myself.

Your words a moment ago: "You're not biased for all people."

Give me a couple of examples that would prove this to be a true statement.

For instance you also said this, "That's true across genres like movies, music and, most relevant here, sports."

Can you give me an example for each genre (not including the Williams sisters)? Like, do you think I love Otis Redding more because he's black? Over say Van Morrison? Do you think I like Denzel extra special because he's black?

b. I meant the words as they were exactly written. No word play. No games.

Yes or no to the following question: You can't be biased for all people unless you are biased for black people?

If it is impossible for you to answer with a yes or no, that's fine, just politely decline to do so. I won't even ask you why.

Recall your insistence than Prince was the greatest musician of all time? Or was it guitarist? Both? That's and the Williams sisters are but two examples. I don't have time to cull through years of posts to find others. I do think you show favoritism toward blacks, and that is likely the root of your over-inflating the importance of the Williams sisters and their story.

As for the second part, I already answered it. If you mean biased in a folksy, "I'm for all people" way, then the answer is yes. You can't be for all people without being for black people. If you mean it in a literal sense, then no, you can't be biased for all people and biased for black people. Being biased for black people would mean that you are by definition not biased for non-black people. Why is this question of such significance to you?

 

[Ketchum]

Recall your insistence than Prince was the greatest musician of all time? Or was it guitarist? Both? That's and the Williams sisters are but two examples. I don't have time to cull through years of posts to find others. I do think you show favoritism toward blacks, and that is likely the root of your over-inflating the importance of the Williams sisters and their story.

As for the second part, I already answered it. If you mean biased in a folksy, "I'm for all people" way, then the answer is yes. You can't be for all people without being for black people. If you mean it in a literal sense, then no, you can't be biased for all people and biased for black people. Being biased for black people would mean that you are by definition not biased for non-black people. Why is this question of such significance to you?

a. Who am I not biased for at the expense of black people?

b. Agree to disagree on your second part. Fundamental difference breakthrough.

You cannot be biased for all people WITHOUT being biased for black people. We just have a difference of opinion. Thank you for finally answering that question.

 

[Ketchum]

BTW, it's a little unfair to say I'm biased for one group of people when your examples are Prince and the Williams sisters.

Your attitude of seemingly being very certain about it would feel more deserved if you had more examples than Prince in the last 17 years.

 

[CS]

BTW, it's a little unfair to say I'm biased for one group of people when your examples are Prince and the Williams sisters.

Your attitude of seemingly being very certain about it would feel more deserved if you had more examples than Prince in the last 17 years.

You want an itemized list of things culled from the last 16 years? You admitted the source of your favoritism already. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, even if you don't want to admit it publicly.

 

[CS]

a. Who am I not biased for at the expense of black people?

b. Agree to disagree on your second part. Fundamental difference breakthrough.

You cannot be biased for all people WITHOUT being biased for black people. We just have a difference of opinion. Thank you for finally answering that question.

I'm sure you have an articulate thought in your head, but it's not translating into words. And I didn't finally answer your question. I just repeated what I've already said earlier in the thread.

 

[txfight]

Vitriol for fans of UT who don't "demand" full disclosure and transparency? Who are you to demand anything of the university or of the head coach of Texas? In common terms: "you ain't nobody."

Save your demands for when you are hired as the president, AD or head coach of Texas. Until then, you still ain't nobody!

My vitriol would be for fans, alums, etc of Baylor (or Penn St) who aren't demanding answers from their school. Because the embarrassment of the school in their situation reflects (fairly or not) on students, fans, alums, etc. So I think asking the school to come clean is a fair ask.

Don't be under the illusion that I think I'm somebody special, I agree, I ain't nobody. But if I spent my time, money and influence backing an institution to the degree that the average student or fan does, I can make that demand. The university can ignore me, and I can stop making donations, buying merch and attending/watching games. It probably won't move the needle, because I'm one "nobody". But if enough "nobodies" follow suit, then the script flips and it's the HC or University President who ain't nobody.

I'm not demanding anything from Herman. He hasn't done anything wrong. Still, I think the media should ask about his decision to make the controversial hire, and I think it would be chickenshit for him not to answer it. But in the grand scheme, you're right, I ain't nobody. And neither are you.