I guess everyone here realized COVID is real

[speedstrength]

I can't believe there are still people who doesn't think it works, I am living proof at 83 that it does.

I am glad you recovered but N=1. In some cases you can draw conclusions with an N of 1 but in this case you can't. When you got sick there were 4 possible outcomes and now that you recovered thank god there are only 2. The null hypothesis is that the HCQ did not have an affect and you would have recovered with the standard treatment. The alternative hypothesis is that the HCQ aided your recovery. In this case you cant serve as your own control and you need more statistical power to generalize findings to a larger population

Randomized Control trials allow for a more systematic evaluation of the efficacy of HCQ by adding multiple treatment conditions plus control conditions. They add statistical power by adding data points. Usually you are looking for at least 500 participants for a RCT to gain sufficient statistical power. I have read 4 different studies. One from Brazil, One from Vanderbilt Medical Center, One from Spain and One from the UK. Based on the results from those studies it is pretty clear that there is no difference in outcomes between the standard care and the standard care + HCQ.

 

[speedstrength]

Okay, cool man. I don't mind going back and forth, but if you want take this conversation in this direction-no thanks. I will just end my input here for what it is worth to anybody.
1) We were discussing treatment, but you interjected a study for post exposure prophylaxis. These are very different and I haven't recommended HCQ in this way. I am only referring to positive cases. Anybody in healthcare knows of the incentives to do double blinded placebo controlled studies. These incentives are for patented brand name drugs. There is no money to be made on old generic drugs, which is why t there is very little funding to do these studies.

2) I would like to see some of these studies with older patients where the risk is highest. Many of these studies will have patients 18yo-60yo. Why bother if that isn't the age groups that are dying. I looked at deaths by age on the CDC website to get the current numbers. Here they are:
Total deaths due to Covid19: 135,579
age >=85 is 44,055
age 75-84 is 35,806
age 65-74 is 28,353
108,214 deaths of people in the US 65 and older make up 79.8% of the deaths due to Covid.

Siri Göpel, Wolfgang Bethge, Peter Martus, et al. Test and treat covid 65 plus - hydroxychloroquine versus placebo in early ambulatory diagnosis and treatment of older patients with covid19: a structured summary of a study protocol for a randomised controlled trial. Trials. 2020;21(1):1-2. doi:10.1186/s13063-020-04556-z

In clinical trials right now. Recruiting participants over 64 who have a positive throat swab for COVID but less than 3 days onset symptoms.

 

[oldhorn2]

a hospital in SW Austin has been tabbed to begin a study with that rithmidisphere or what ever it was ya'll mentioned. St Davids or something like that.

 

[TX1972]

It's because a dose of HCQ is about $14 and there's enough supply to treat the whole freaking world several times over. Big pharma and their political swamp partners in Congress and DC can't make any money or get rich with HCQ. They prefer several other potential vaccines and therapeutics that are much more expensive. Like everything else you follow the money. They want the most expensive treatments and medications so they can bilk insurance companies and line their pockets. It's also why they were scrambling to build ventilators for all the hospitals. Each time a ventilator was used on a Covid patient it would generate a $40k bill to Medicare or a private insurance carrier. I guarantee you there were thousands of patients put on ventilators unnecessarily just so they could juice up the hospital income.

I only heard this from Andrew Cuomo, so it may not be correct: only 20% of patients put on ventilators survived.

 

[Older Fan]

My Doctor refused to consider a ventilator, said they only weaken the immune system response.

 

[Belldozer1]

I’m agreeing with those calling on Trump to delay the election due to this pandemic. With all the flip flopping Fauci is doing, now he recommends wearing goggles and a face visor, a lot of folks won’t feel comfortable getting out to vote and mail in ballots won’t be an option for many so Trump should go ahead do what’s fair for the country. The libs will crap themselves.

 

[hookem365]

I’m agreeing with those calling on Trump to delay the election due to this pandemic. With all the flip flopping Fauci is doing, now he recommends wearing goggles and a face visor, a lot of folks won’t feel comfortable getting out to vote and mail in ballots won’t be an option for many so Trump should go ahead do what’s fair for the country. The libs will crap themselves.

We thought that you did not believe that there is a pandemic.

Based on his own stance on the pandemic, Trump cannot use the pandemic as an excuse to delay the polls. If it is safe to reopen schools, it ought to be safe to vote.

 

[soonersoldier]

I’m agreeing with those calling on Trump to delay the election due to this pandemic. With all the flip flopping Fauci is doing, now he recommends wearing goggles and a face visor, a lot of folks won’t feel comfortable getting out to vote and mail in ballots won’t be an option for many so Trump should go ahead do what’s fair for the country. The libs will crap themselves.

What is the mechanism in place for the sitting President to delay the Presidential election? Also, do you know of any other Presidential election in the U.S. which has been previously delayed? I only ask because it would seem odd to delay a Presidential election for a "common" flu when other elections during times of war, depressions, etc. have not delayed said election.

 

[StrangerHorn]

This thread is sure getting Political! Pretty soon ya'll gonna be fightin on this crap...and the MM gonna close it down...

 

[dj701919]

What is the mechanism in place for the sitting President to delay the Presidential election? Also, do you know of any other Presidential election in the U.S. which has been previously delayed? I only ask because it would seem odd to delay a Presidential election for a "common" flu when other elections during times of war, depressions, etc. have not delayed said election.

gooner on gooner crime

 

[hookem365]

This thread is sure getting Political! Pretty soon ya'll gonna be fightin on this crap...and the MM gonna close it down...

View embedded media

Did you even read the very first post in this whole thread?
Or, are you just coming to Belldozer's defense?

The recent posts have been very respectful and stating the obvious without any political opinions.....

 

[oldhorn2]

the obvious huh?....that depends on what your definition of " is" is

 

[Belldozer1]

We thought that you did not believe that there is a pandemic.

Based on his own stance on the pandemic, Trump cannot use the pandemic as an excuse to delay the polls. If it is safe to reopen schools, it ought to be safe to vote.

Whether I believe it effects everyone as the bullshitters would have you believe is beside the point, the WHO declared it a pandemic and chaos and bullshit has ensued. If it was me no way would I label it a pandemic.

 

[Belldozer1]

What is the mechanism in place for the sitting President to delay the Presidential election? Also, do you know of any other Presidential election in the U.S. which has been previously delayed? I only ask because it would seem odd to delay a Presidential election for a "common" flu when other elections during times of war, depressions, etc. have not delayed said election.

My comment is tongue and cheek because I call the virus a souped up flu.

 

[2300 Nueces]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/texas...tributing-225-deaths-to-covid-19_3446709.html

They are fudging the numbers on purpose for more than one reason.

 

[westx]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/texas...tributing-225-deaths-to-covid-19_3446709.html

They are fudging the numbers on purpose for more than one reason.

I think they should fire anybody that is misreporting numbers such as these if it has the appearance of political motivation. In addition, it should be reported it the news, newspapers... with the misreported’s name (again, only if it is politically motivated). One more thing, every state should circulate a memo from the top down that anybody caught from now going forward will be get fired and prosecuted.

 

[Belldozer1]

Here’s another covid success story, congrats fear mongers. I was hoping to post a pic but it won’t let me, anyway @LonghornMM , New Braunfels Smokehouse is closing down after 75 years due to unsustainable economy brought in by covid

 

[LonghornMM]

Here’s another covid success story, congrats fear mongers. I was hoping to post a pic but it won’t let me, anyway @LonghornMM , New Braunfels Smokehouse is closing down after 75 years due to unsustainable economy brought in by covid

So sad!

 

[weevilcatch]

We thought that you did not believe that there is a pandemic.

Based on his own stance on the pandemic, Trump cannot use the pandemic as an excuse to delay the polls. If it is safe to reopen schools, it ought to be safe to vote.

So can people agree with your ilk or not? I'm confused...

 

[hookem365]

I think they should fire anybody that is misreporting numbers such as these if it has the appearance of political motivation. In addition, it should be reported it the news, newspapers... with the misreported’s name (again, only if it is politically motivated). One more thing, every state should circulate a memo from the top down that anybody caught from now going forward will be get fired and prosecuted.

Agreed....starting with the person who said this back in Jan 2020..."We have it totally under control.”

 

[weevilcatch]

Here’s another covid success story, congrats fear mongers. I was hoping to post a pic but it won’t let me, anyway @LonghornMM , New Braunfels Smokehouse is closing down after 75 years due to unsustainable economy brought in by covid

Hey, at least a bunch of people got to act like a hero on social media!!!!!!!!!!

 

[weevilcatch]

Agreed....starting with the person who said this back in Jan 2020..."We have it totally under control.”

Federal Government might have. New York was a complete disaster however.

 

[dj701919]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/texas...tributing-225-deaths-to-covid-19_3446709.html

They are fudging the numbers on purpose for more than one reason.

Fake News

I thought the number of fatalities was not important. We should be looking at the number of cases.

 

[dj701919]

Agreed....starting with the person who said this back in Jan 2020..."We have it totally under control.”

I'm am not a fan of the president, but to suggest that The Rona is his fault is laughable.

If we found out that a meteor the size of India was headed straight for Earth and that we only had a month to live, would that be his fault for not discovering it Sooner?

 

[Belldozer1]

So sad!

Indeed
https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0PmKDPSU?pd=05GPWmaQ&s=i0

 

[clob94]

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/04/science.abd3871

Where's my Doctors at to break this down for me. I passed microbiology in college but not by much.

 

[StrangerHorn]

 

[speedstrength]

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/04/science.abd3871

Where's my Doctors at to break this down for me. I passed microbiology in college but not by much.

"Responding cells in unexposed donors were predominantly found in the effector memory CD4+ T cell population (CD45RAnegCCR7neg), followed by the central memory T cells (CD45RAnegCCR7pos) (30) (Fig. 3, A, B, and D). Comparable patterns of effector and central memory cells were observed among the antigen-specific CD4+ T cells detected in the COVID-19 cases (Fig. 3, C and D). In conclusion, the CD4+ T cells in unexposed donors that recognize SARS-CoV-2 epitopes, and epitopes from other HCoVs, have a memory phenotype.."

Basically the protein spikes on COVID are similar to the protein spikes of other corona viruses (common cold). T-Cells recognize infections. Some people who have not been exposed to COVID have T-Cells that recognize COVID and fight it off.

Probably the reason that 80% of the people that are infected have no symptoms or very mild symptoms.

 

[hillcountryhorn63697005]

I just want to know if all that riding a bike behind the mosquito fogging truck, back in the day, has given me immunity to the china virus.

 

[StrangerHorn]

I just want to know if all that riding a bike behind the mosquito fogging truck, back in the day, has given me immunity to the china virus.

Probably cured of not follow one Hill...We played street football in that shit..but, maybe you are right, asked the CDC..LOL

 

[Belldozer1]

I just want to know if all that riding a bike behind the mosquito fogging truck, back in the day, has given me immunity to the china virus.

I’m sure it has now you’ll just lie of cancer and lung rot.

 

[Belldozer1]

I just want to know if all that riding a bike behind the mosquito fogging truck, back in the day, has given me immunity to the china virus.

A friend of mine in college was from a small town called Danbury, Texas, I’d go home with him on the weekends sometimes and that was my my first introduction to mesquito trucks, we didn’t see that kind of stuff in Comal County, Texas USA

 

[clob94]

"Responding cells in unexposed donors were predominantly found in the effector memory CD4+ T cell population (CD45RAnegCCR7neg), followed by the central memory T cells (CD45RAnegCCR7pos) (30) (Fig. 3, A, B, and D). Comparable patterns of effector and central memory cells were observed among the antigen-specific CD4+ T cells detected in the COVID-19 cases (Fig. 3, C and D). In conclusion, the CD4+ T cells in unexposed donors that recognize SARS-CoV-2 epitopes, and epitopes from other HCoVs, have a memory phenotype.."

Basically the protein spikes on COVID are similar to the protein spikes of other corona viruses (common cold). T-Cells recognize infections. Some people who have not been exposed to COVID have T-Cells that recognize COVID and fight it off.

Probably the reason that 80% of the people that are infected have no symptoms or very mild symptoms.

Hold up-- so if you haven't HAD a Covid like cold-- or a cold that is a "cousin" to this Covid virus, you're more likely to fight it off?

I would have thought it would be the other way around. If you'd HAD a cold that was cousin to this Covid, then your T cells would have the "memory" to fight it off.


What they told me was that I had "dead" Covid 2 cells in me (for those that don't know-- you get infected with Covid 2 and then it turns into Covid 19 in your body--- it's like the HIV virus-- you catch it and it turns into AIDS) ---- so they found dead Covid 2 cells in me, but they found no Covid 19 anti-bodies. So Covid came into my body and something killed it--- and my body didn't develop any anti-bodies.

How's that possible?

 

[Belldozer1]

Hold up-- so if you haven't HAD a Covid like cold-- or a cold that is a "cousin" to this Covid virus, you're more likely to fight it off?

I would have thought it would be the other way around. If you'd HAD a cold that was cousin to this Covid, then your T cells would have the "memory" to fight it off.


What they told me was that I had "dead" Covid 2 cells in me (for those that don't know-- you get infected with Covid 2 and then it turns into Covid 19 in your body--- it's like the HIV virus-- you catch it and it turns into AIDS) ---- so they found dead Covid 2 cells in me, but they found no Covid 19 anti-bodies. So Covid came into my body and something killed it--- and my body didn't develop any anti-bodies.

How's that possible?

Clob you should never try to get tested or diagnosed at a massage parlor fronting as a Healthcare Facility, that’s the problem here, the FBI would like to speak with you...
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/fiel...19-at-new-braunfels-texas-healthcare-facility

 

[oldhorn2]

"Responding cells in unexposed donors were predominantly found in the effector memory CD4+ T cell population (CD45RAnegCCR7neg), followed by the central memory T cells (CD45RAnegCCR7pos) (30) (Fig. 3, A, B, and D). Comparable patterns of effector and central memory cells were observed among the antigen-specific CD4+ T cells detected in the COVID-19 cases (Fig. 3, C and D). In conclusion, the CD4+ T cells in unexposed donors that recognize SARS-CoV-2 epitopes, and epitopes from other HCoVs, have a memory phenotype.."

Basically the protein spikes on COVID are similar to the protein spikes of other corona viruses (common cold). T-Cells recognize infections. Some people who have not been exposed to COVID have T-Cells that recognize COVID and fight it off.

Probably the reason that 80% of the people that are infected have no symptoms or very mild symptoms.

ok Clob.....you said you passed micro biology so it is up to you to intrepret what Speed said here. I have no idea.