Jimmy Johnson- Mahomes is the most talented QB ive ever seen

[Hoookem722]

Great read.

Case in point-- is there anyone in the league that has the speed and ability to cover like deion Sanders or Darrell Greene?

Nope didn't think so.

Would have loved to see Deion or Darrell Green match up with a guy like Tyreek Hill. Would be a fun match up. The game was a lot different for the defense back in those days though. Really tough to compare guys from different eras.

 

[oldhorn2]

The article starts with the following "Men aged between 20 and 34 have lower "grip and pinch strength" than their counterparts three decades ago

this must be true. I read that Abe Lincoln liked to impress people by picking up an axe by the end of the handle with his thumb and fore finger and holding it straight out ...

I can pick up an axe with thumb and fore finger....but what is this about holding it straight out? I couldnt do that with vice grips.

 

[Belldozer1]

Please stop. Just stop. The Kansas City Chiefs are not a truly great team and I like them and Mahomes. What is ridiculous is listening to guys like you pretend to have some insight into the game that you don't have. Your argument is utterly absurd. The idea that the best teams from the following franchises Dallas Cowboys, San Francisco 49ers, Denver Broncos, New England Patriots, Pittsburgh Steelers, NY Giants, Bills, Packers, Ravens with Ray Lewis. Tampa from 2003 or even the Oilers with Moon and that Group would not have success today is just a comical assertion. Looing at one elite athlete today, Alvin Kamara, (and I am a former FSU athlete) is a guy I like a lot and he is not one of the top 75 backs in the history of the NFL.

The game began to change in 1993, I believe it was 93 when Murdoch bet 400 million on getting Fox into the NFL sports game. That 400 million, outrageous expenditure I believe eventually became a 70 billion sell. Not a bad return on 400 million.

But this moved sport really to the sport is entertainment view point. And the sport as entertainment mindset necessitated alterations and this biased things moving forward in favor of offenses in regard to structure to make the game more lively and entertaining. Even with these alterations when teams have had really elite defenses, go back and watch the Ravens and Patriots games or the Broncos and Patriots games or Seattle vs New England you did not see the same offensive out puts as you otherwise did/ do a vast majority of the time..

And from a societal standpoint there have been other factors influencing development with many of them having adverse consequences on people. Lets look at just one way alterations in society have impacted basic strength levels for example for the average population.

Here is a 2016 Article Headline from The Sun
Grip strength" of the modern man said to be 12kg LESS than it was in the 1980s

• TOM GILLESPIE

The article starts with the following "Men aged between 20 and 34 have lower "grip and pinch strength" than their counterparts three decades ago, which shows they have weaker arms and hands, a study by the Journal of Hand Therapy has found." The article continues "Dr. Fain, an assistant professor at Winston-Salem University in the US, has said men used to have stronger hands because of their repetitive tasks in manual labor." She added that this kind of day-to-day activity is more beneficial for hand grip than weight training. Dr Fain also pointed to how people tend to complete smaller hand movements more often by texting and typing."

Now that is not linked specifically to athletic performance but it does reflect something you have never considered before and I would bet that your answer would have contradicted the reality that Dr. Fain's study brings to light. Now lets look at the Dallas roster for a moment. Erik Williams, Larry Allen, Nate Newton, Tuinei, Stepnoski (the one smaller guy but great technique), Lett, Maryland, Haley, Woodson, Darrin Smith, Sanders, Novacek, Smith, Irvin, Moose, Harper, Aikman (to name a few) and we can go on and on. The idea that they are not better than Kansas City is an assertion that is laughable.

Lets look at sports like tennis for minute, and before you laugh lets look at who dominates tennis, It is not the young guys like Thiem or Zerev or Medvedev though they are all having nice careers it is Federer, Djokovic and Nadal and they have been doing it for over 15 years. Why do they do it beyond just talent??t its mindset. Its old school but never is old school really defined.. So let me define it for you in the following way.

Mindset = singular focus but this focus is developed. And here we need to look at development and I would like to shed some light on this for you. In essence skill classifications can be broken down into two basic categories with several subsets in each area. Let me give you a broad overview as to how I was trained ( I was a Harry Hopman kid and my other coaches were Sima Nikolic a Yugoslavian Davis Cup player and David Farmer who had 2 wins over Bob Lutz, Stan Smiths doubles partner (#1 in Doubles on the ATP Tour and #20 in singles on the tour) and how that shaped the systems that I am aligned to as I develop an athlete.

As you read this you may come to realize that coaching was far more sophisticated 20 years ago and 30 years ago and 40 years ago than you realize. You need to learn about coaches like Verhonasky, Tudor Bompa, Michael Yessiss and Charlie Francis. What you see sport coaches doing today is directly traceable to guys like this but then who did they learn from ?? These guys were geniuses and light years ahead of their time. And I Have been fortunate to have 3 1 on 1 conversations with Dr. Yessis.

Also my brother played on the defensive line with Billy Ray Smith and Tony Cherico at Arkansas, three cousins that played for the Univ. of Missouri, a cousin Mike Mock that played with Texas Tech and then the Jets and is Chance Mocks father #9 0n the Fab 55 as a 5 star recruit who played behind Vince Young and a cousin that played at Houston when Houston had two of Mikes Longview teammates, Hosea Taylor and Randy Swisher and lost in the Cotton Bowl to Montana and Notre Dame after being up I think by 17 points in the 4th quarter.

So here is Principle 4 of my developmental framework and again a lot of this comes from my adaptations of Verhoshansky, Bompa, Yessis and Francis's work. So I give you a glimpse into the systems I utilize in developing athletes..

• Principle #4 is systems. If you have a common language and well thought out player goals but not meaningful systems, you cannot create autonomy in players. The goal is to have talented capable players able to execute the system but who are autonomous and have the capacity to move into a necessary go to loop when plays/ matches break down. The response is instantaneous, and everyone is on the same page under pressure. I want players to be good compensators and at ease if they must move into an alternative game style in order to have success. I do not want players responses to be fear based. We work on helping our athletes move, in the midst of competition, from Sympathetic Nervous System Dominance (Fight or Flight Responses) to Parasympathetic Nervous System Dominance (where the mind controls the body….we are also assessing and teaching elements such as breathing strategies e.g. it is important for the axial skeleton to achieve full excursion of inhalation and exhalation. If you do not get these, you will have a limitation in the athlete’s ability to position the hip and shoulder socket which will limit extremity motion. Joel Jamieson (and Joel's work is the most recent addition to my training modalities) who was George St Pierre’s and Anderson Silva’s conditioning coach addresses these type elements in his HRV (Heart Rate Variability) Conditioning Certification which I have obtained. Joel breaks conditioning into 3 essential types of days based on the loading level of the conditioning method employed on a given day. They are as follows A) - Development, B) - Stimulation and C) - Regeneration and I have adopted his framework with my programming. Additionally, if you are interested in how to sequence conditioning work and strength work there is a great article on Peak Performance (PPonline), that addresses the role of AMPK and MTORC1 in this determination. In my programming we categorize skills into 5 basic areas that can be broken down into 2 essential key subsets. Area 1 = strength and conditioning skills, in this area as players become more advanced I utilize not only HRV (Heart Rate Variability) training but also utilize Max Aerobic Speed and Anaerobic speed reserve calculations to structure HIIT running programs for athletes and we combine these with a variety of metabolic protocols and linear and lateral training methods to address conditioning and endurance and Area 2 which is what we call exploitation skills (I was fortunate to come across a German sport scientist work several years ago who provided this breakdown). In area 2 we have 3 essential skills which can be further broken down as we begin to do more specialized work with a given athlete beyond the general preparation/ foundational period of their development. In category 2 we are initially dealing with speed, coordination, and flexibility. I have come to believe over the last 15-20 years that the key skill in area two that others are dependent on is coordination. Skill acquisition, I have found, is dependent on movement quality and coordination is what supports all skill development in area 2.

If you read this you see that movement is an information processing based skill and that all skills then feed into this loop. Doesn't matter how strong or fast you are if you are failing to process information in the right way or if your mind is not aligned to the process in the right way continually on every rep (every rep not 98% or 89% but on 100 % of them) you take in a game or match. Old school players have a singular way of being in competition and Champions know how to win. If we align ourselves to your assertions Feder, Djokovic and Nadal would have no prayer against the New Superior athlete that you herald and yet they beat them up on a daily basis.. Your absolutely incorrect in your assertions... I really like Kansas City but you and I are viewing the game through 2 very different lenses...!!

I don’t know what the hell I just read but I think I liked it.

 

[Seminole1981]

I don’t know what the hell I just read but I think I liked it.

Here is a good example of the frail unathletic players from the past that would have no prayer of playing in todays superior NFL...!! The Lawrence Taylor video is 5.34 in length put out by John Smith and has Ted Nugent as background music. Worth the watch as are the other videos.. These guys and many many others would dominate the NFL today.

 

[Belldozer1]

Randy White still looks like he has it

 

[Hoookem722]

Here is a good example of the frail unathletic players from the past that would have no prayer of playing in todays superior NFL...!! The Lawrence Taylor video is 5.34 in length put out by John Smith and has Ted Nugent as background music. Worth the watch as are the other videos.. These guys and many many others would dominate the NFL today.

View embedded media

View embedded media

View embedded media

View embedded media

Ya Aaron Donald is nothing compared to those guys 🧐. You have what I call old man bias where you glorify the old days as the gospel and everything else is superior. Sure there are guys from different eras that could dominate today’s game. But the same could be said for some guys in today’s game.

 

[outhereincali]

Great read.

Case in point-- is there anyone in the league that has the speed and ability to cover like deion Sanders or Darrell Greene?

Nope didn't think so.

I don't care how fast he was Deion Sanders was a fag. That's right I said it. I grew up with the Steelers and their great Steel Curtain defense. I also watched Lombardi's packers.

The 2 best cb's I ever saw were Herb Adderly (GB) and Mel Blount (Steelers). And they were great athletes in their own right. They had the whole game they could play the run and could a deliver a nasty blow.

Deion Sanders could not in fact he didn't even try to play the run or even tackle. My favorite memory of him was when he was with Dallas and a 3rd string qb on the Giants hit him and knocked him out. It was a well known fact that he never tried to learn the playbook. Having said this I acknowledge that he was a greatest cover corner one of the greatest ever. And I know the story about running a 4.3 forty in a helmet and shoulder pads. But you can go way back in the day and fb players have always been great athletes. But for me its playing the whole game and Deion Sanders didn't have that.

 

[Seminole1981]

Ya Aaron Donald is nothing compared to those guys 🧐. You have what I call old man bias where you glorify the old days as the gospel and everything else is superior. Sure there are guys from different eras that could dominate today’s game. But the same could be said for some guys in today’s game.

Friend you would be wrong again. Not sure how you spent your day today but let me share with you how I spent mine. I have been at a hospital all day as my youngest Niece is playing soccer at a University in NC and made the starting lineup as a true freshman. In a scrimmage three days ago she was taken down with a slide tackle where she landed on her right shoulder and underwent surgery today to repair the breaks.

The surgeon had to place two plates and 5 screws in the shoulder to repair the injury. As I sat at the hospital awaiting her to come out of surgery along with her father (her mother my sister is undergoing chemo right now, her 3rd bout with it, so she did not come to the hospital) I had some time to kill.

I don't have as you so eloquently put it "old man bias" I just know that the general assertion that the game progressed beyond the abilities of guys from 15 years ago is complete nonsense.. I was also recruited by A&M, Tech, TCU, LSU, Arkansas, TJC, Rajun Cajuns, Tulane, Ole Miss, Southwest Texas State along with 15 other schools and ended up at Florida State so I don't feel like I am trapped in some false thought process that prevents me from assessing accurately the reality of todays game..

Perhaps many people, and you more than you realize, today falsely embrace the idea that all things new are so much better than anything else that came before that they more than they realize can't see the forest for trees.. and by doing so never have to look with any level of honesty about the deficiencies that exist not only in modern sport but more importantly contemporary life..

 

[Belldozer1]

I don't care how fast he was Deion Sanders was a fag. That's right I said it. I grew up with the Steelers and their great Steel Curtain defense. I also watched Lombardi's packers.

The 2 best cb's I ever saw were Herb Adderly (GB) and Mel Blount (Steelers). And they were great athletes in their own right. They had the whole game they could play the run and could a deliver a nasty blow.

Deion Sanders could not in fact he didn't even try to play the run or even tackle. My favorite memory of him was when he was with Dallas and a 3rd string qb on the Giants hit him and knocked him out. It was a well known fact that he never tried to learn the playbook. Having said this I acknowledge that he was a greatest cover corner one of the greatest ever. And I know the story about running a 4.3 forty in a helmet and shoulder pads. But you can go way back in the day and fb players have always been great athletes. But for me its playing the whole game and Deion Sanders didn't have that.

I'm not sure that word means what you think it means. Deion will be the first to admit he didn't like to tackle but he could. As far as cover corners go many feel he was the greatest of all time at coverage

 

[oldhorn2]

I promise you that Tommy Nobis would have started for any Pro team today....same for Jim Brown

 

[Hoookem722]

I promise you that Tommy Nobis would have started for any Pro team today....same for Jim Brown

Ya and teams could still run the wishbone but that doesn’t mean it would work....

 

[Deguello]

My dad always said "when Meredith was great.. he was great, when he was bad, he was HORRIBLE".

 

[outhereincali]

I'm not sure that word means what you think it means. Deion will be the first to admit he didn't like to tackle but he could. As far as cover corners go many feel he was the greatest of all time at coverage

I know exactly what it means. The baddest of the badasses, in their glory years, were the Oakland Raiders. Some of their guys called Deion Sanders a fag. They said if he had done one of his ignorant td dances against them they said they would have seen to it that he didn't do it a second time. Spike Lee said that if DS had so much jeri curl in his hair he could have killed people just shaking his head. Along with Brian Bosworth they were they were the first self promoters in the NFL. He shopped himself to the 49ers and the Cowboys. At the time they were 1 player short of winning a SB and DS could go to a team with a great defense and do his thing. And he wasn't worth a **** as a tackler or in run support. Now let me compare to his biggest rival Darrell Green. DG wasn't the greatest in run support but he gave maximum effort and ended up pretty decent in run support and he was a willing tackler.

 

[JDCPAgolferHorn]

I don't care how fast he was Deion Sanders was a fag. That's right I said it. I grew up with the Steelers and their great Steel Curtain defense. I also watched Lombardi's packers.

The 2 best cb's I ever saw were Herb Adderly (GB) and Mel Blount (Steelers). And they were great athletes in their own right. They had the whole game they could play the run and could a deliver a nasty blow.

Deion Sanders could not in fact he didn't even try to play the run or even tackle. My favorite memory of him was when he was with Dallas and a 3rd string qb on the Giants hit him and knocked him out. It was a well known fact that he never tried to learn the playbook. Having said this I acknowledge that he was a greatest cover corner one of the greatest ever. And I know the story about running a 4.3 forty in a helmet and shoulder pads. But you can go way back in the day and fb players have always been great athletes. But for me its playing the whole game and Deion Sanders didn't have that.

Whoa! Did I read that correctly! That's a statement made by Cali? A man of God, sympathetic, progressive, tolerant, equality for all, social justice Cali?

 

[TX1972]

I promise you that Tommy Nobis would have started for any Pro team today....same for Jim Brown

I saw Jim Brown when the Browns beat the Cowboys about 1965. He was the best RB I ever saw. He could let either leg go limp when tackled, then gain a little more yardage.

 

[outhereincali]

Whoa! Did I read that correctly! That's a statement made by Cali? A man of God, sympathetic, progressive, tolerant, equality for all, social justice Cali?

I am of course all those things and proud of it. I was also quoting the Oakland Raiders and said so. The Raiders were probably serious and I thought it was funny. Especially because they were talking about an athlete who often boasted of his conquests and the gorgeous women he said he was with. Lighten up and have a sense of humor. And jeesh next time I'll have to say sissy.

 

[oldhorn2]

Ya and teams could still run the wishbone but that doesn’t mean it would work....

that comment is just wrong. What in hell does the wishbone have to do with anything? We are talking about players of yore that would be just as dominate today as they were then.

 

[RoboCocks21]

Meridith was definitely a tough guy. However, IMO Staubach is the best QB to ever play for the Cowboys. Captain America was incredibly gifted physically. BTW, it was 17 + 22 = 7.

Well Staubach did lose two to duck dynasty back up qb, which if cowboys would of won we would have 7 titles

 

[oldhorn2]

The baddest of the badasses, in their glory years, were the Oakland

yawwwn.....over rated. They still never were the 49ers...Cowboys or Steelers.

Now the '85 Bears.....those were bad asses...

 

[RoboCocks21]

Editing the post the alert was wrong about Andy Reid son and his grandson involved in a wreck. Reports are now saying Britt Reid was under the influence, traveling on the entrance ramp to get on the interstate. The pickup truck struck the left front of the Impala, then continued south before hitting the rear of the Traverse. The two kids were in the back of the traverse.

 

[JDCPAgolferHorn]

I am of course all those things and proud of it. I was also quoting the Oakland Raiders and said so. The Raiders were probably serious and I thought it was funny. Especially because they were talking about an athlete who often boasted of his conquests and the gorgeous women he said he was with. Lighten up and have a sense of humor. And jeesh next time I'll have to say sissy.

I was actually joshing with you and not being serious at all!

 

[outhereincali]

yawwwn.....over rated. They still never were the 49ers...Cowboys or Steelers.

Now the '85 Bears.....those were bad asses...

Landry's cowboys weren't that tough and neither were the 49ers. Now the Steel Curtain and the 85 bears were tough. But the Raiders didn't just beat you they f'd you up. No team caused more rule changes than the Raiders 😂.

 

[LonghornMM]

Landry's cowboys weren't that tough and neither were the 49ers. Now the Steel Curtain and the 85 bears were tough. But the Raiders didn't just beat you they f'd you up. No team caused more rule changes than the Raiders 😂.

You obviously didn't pay close attention to the Cowboys back then under Landry. Too Tall, Martin, White, Lewis, Harris, Watters, Bates, Lilly, Howley, Jeffcoat, Ditka, Henderson, Fitzgerald, Nye, Newhouse, Dutton, to name a few.

 

[Hoookem722]

Landry's cowboys weren't that tough and neither were the 49ers. Now the Steel Curtain and the 85 bears were tough. But the Raiders didn't just beat you they f'd you up. No team caused more rule changes than the Raiders 😂.

Now I know you are just trolling. Those 70’s Cowboys teams were loaded with hall of fame talent. They were pretty damn good in the 80’s to.

 

[crazypatriotguy]

Listen I am not disputing his ability and there are some solid young qb's but pretty good teams are not great teams and if he were doing this against Tampa of 2003 which he wouldn't, or the ravens with Ray Lewis, or the Patriots best teams that went toe to toe with Rays group or Denver when they beat the patriots or had Elway at the end winning championships and if Dallas were to line up with them with Charles Haley and that group they would dismantle KC. I think he could play against those teams but he would need a much better team around him and the reality of what he is facing in combination with the alteration in rules that weights the game to the offensive side of things helps him a whole lot.

Last year they came back from 20-10 down. That says a lot about who he is and what they can do but they did it against a mid level team. Brees blew it this year Mahomes did not. At least not yet and I don't think this Tampa team can stop them but the Tampa team from 2003 beats them up. Go back and watch that team defensively. We are always selling stuff and hyping everything. Every movie is spectacular, mind blowing, etc etc etc. He is very talented and KC should win but Kansas City is a hugely over rated team in historical terms..

A great example of people too often living in the moment when it comes to players/teams is the article I read the other day ranking Brady's 10 Super Bowl teams and it had this season's Bucs team as 3rd best. Better than the 14-2 2004 Patriots, that had a top 5 scoring offense, 1600 yard rusher in Corey Dillon, #2 defense in the league with a loaded front 7, faced the 49 TD Peyton Manning and stacked Indy offense in the divisional round and held them to 3 points, then went to Pittsburgh and put up 41 points on the #1 scoring defense in the league. (Before beating Philly in the Super Bowl)

I have no issue calling the 2020 Bucs better than multiple Patriots Super Bowl teams. Putting them ahead of that 2004 team though is ridiculous.

 

[oldhorn2]

Yeah....the late 60's and 70's Cowboys were tough as hell.....and while we are at it about good CB's...Mel Renfro may have been the best yet. He didnt get too many breakups, or interceptions.....because the other team NEVER went to his man.If there was a stat for the least targets bfor his man, Renfro would have won it every year.Back in Deons heyday I remember a discussion from the writers and they said it would not be fair to compare Deon to Renfro....Mel was that much better.... It did not hurt that the other corner was perennial All Pro Cornell Green.

 

[freeper]

So lemme get this straight...Deion Sanders was an English cigarette?

 

[Seminole1981]

A great example of people too often living in the moment when it comes to players/teams is the article I read the other day ranking Brady's 10 Super Bowl teams and it had this season's Bucs team as 3rd best. Better than the 14-2 2004 Patriots, that had a top 5 scoring offense, 1600 yard rusher in Corey Dillon, #2 defense in the league with a loaded front 7, faced the 49 TD Peyton Manning and stacked Indy offense in the divisional round and held them to 3 points, then went to Pittsburgh and put up 41 points on the #1 scoring defense in the league. (Before beating Philly in the Super Bowl)

I have no issue calling the 2020 Bucs better than multiple Patriots Super Bowl teams. Putting them ahead of that 2004 team though is ridiculous.

This Tampa team is not close to the 2003 Tampa team. The people coming up with these list have no idea what they are talking about 98% of the time..

 

[outhereincali]

You obviously didn't pay close attention to the Cowboys back then under Landry. Too Tall, Martin, White, Lewis, Harris, Watters, Bates, Lilly, Howley, Jeffcoat, Ditka, Henderson, Fitzgerald, Nye, Newhouse, Dutton, to name a few.

They had a lot of HoF talent everyone knows that. But imho the only players on the Landry defenses that played with a nasty streak were Cliff Harris and Thomas Henderson. That's not to say they were finesse players because they weren't. And it's not like they avoided collisions. It's complicated but I always felt there was something missing physically.

 

[Seminole1981]

They had a lot of HoF talent everyone knows that. But imho the only players on the Landry defenses that played with a nasty streak were Cliff Harris and Thomas Henderson.

What about Randy White ??