Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (Development matters, even more than recruiting...)

[DrothmanII]

Is that what we're calling Cleve?

Yes, that's what we're calling Cleve...

• That during a July 2010 meeting in Bryant's office about whether she would receive a raise, Bryant pulled down the top of her dress and bra and fondled her breast.

• That one day while in the break room, getting a bottle of water, Bryant came in, stood in front of the door as she started to leave and said, "Kiss me." Arena said she turned away and Bryant kissed her on the neck before she could leave.

• That another woman in the athletic department referred to Bryant as "old-freak-nasty" and that he once told Arena "he wanted to touch me, that he wanted to pleasure me, that he could, that he could make me happy, referring to sexually, things like that."

 

[Ketchum]

Yes, that's what we're calling Cleve...

• That during a July 2010 meeting in Bryant's office about whether she would receive a raise, Bryant pulled down the top of her dress and bra and fondled her breast.

• That one day while in the break room, getting a bottle of water, Bryant came in, stood in front of the door as she started to leave and said, "Kiss me." Arena said she turned away and Bryant kissed her on the neck before she could leave.

• That another woman in the athletic department referred to Bryant as "old-freak-nasty" and that he once told Arena "he wanted to touch me, that he wanted to pleasure me, that he could, that he could make me happy, referring to sexually, things like that."

I'm not sure that's the nickname I would give him, but we might be splitting hairs.

As I said, he's a scumbag.

 

[DrothmanII]

I'm not sure that's the nickname I would give him, but we might be splitting hairs.

As I said, he's a scumbag.

Cool. Truth is, he was always a scumbag and those around him, including Mack, knew it. Never did a thing about it.

 

[Ketchum]

Cool. Truth is, he was always a scumbag and those around him, including Mack, knew it. Never did a thing about it.

You aren't educating me. I've felt his scumbagness first-hand.

He was Mack's henchman and because Mack didn't have the stomach to handle a lot of things, he let Cleve get away with almost anything he wanted to.

 

[DrothmanII]

You aren't educating me. I've felt his scumbagness first-hand.

He was Mack's henchman and because Mack didn't have the stomach to handle a lot of things, he let Cleve get away with almost anything he wanted to.

So, our head coach and athletic department covered for the behavior of a known sexual deviant/predator.

Seems like that should be a pretty big negative in the history of Mack & DeLoss but seemingly never gets mentioned.

 

[Ketchum]

So, our head coach and athletic department covered for the behavior of a known sexual deviant/predator.

Seems like that should be a pretty big negative in the history of Mack & DeLoss but seemingly never gets mentioned.

I agree.

 

[Ben3490]

True, but in a span of two weeks (ISU and Baylor loses), he has gone from GOAT to a goat, over that premature extension.

I would love to suffer from premature extension

 

[CoachBobbyFinstock]

Big boys make their own timing. Not only is Urban Meyer available, but so is Bob Stoops. But rest assured we'll cower behind the 'too costly" mantra. What's hilarious is that the hire of EITHER of those guys would open a SH*TLOAD of checkbooks. The university has never quite understood the value LOST by not making such moves.

Truer words have never been spoken.

We laugh at Aggy but they pushed all the chips in with a NC winning coach. They took a chance on a winner with real skins.

Texas never flexes that kind of muscle.

 

[jefakin]

Sure, CDC made a mistake with the extension and we have not seen him make any hard decisions but the betting here is he will turn out to be the best AD we have ever had.

 

[Hornitude]

Who is the standard (besides Saban) for developing players? I remember Tom Osborne did a good job. Who are the elite there?

I know someone already posted Dabo.
Apparently, Rhule isn't too shabby at it.
Belichick is at the top. You still have to develop in the NFL too. It's the same for all sports.
Thinking you can just recruit guys to a program and expecting them to perform at the highest level because someone says they are supposed too doesn't understand how it really works.

I'm glad to see that a recruiting specialist such as Ketchum is starting to get that development is a major piece in the whole puzzle.

 

[RLong68]

Truer words have never been spoken.

We laugh at Aggy but they pushed all the chips in with a NC winning coach. They took a chance on a winner with real skins.

Texas never flexes that kind of muscle.

Let's go back even further.
Early 80s, Aggy makes the FIRST big-time/big-money hire in Sherrill. Young folks today have ZERO idea of how big that hire was. Sherrill was a big success at Pitt which at that time was considered a big-time program. THey stayed in-house for his successor in Slocum, but hen thired away Franchione from ALABAMA. Of course, 'Bama was going to get hit harder than initially thought by sanctions, but still, aggy had ZERO problem hiring Franchione away from ALABAMA. Then after Fran, they plucked Mike Sherman who had been a damn good NFL HC. Then Sumlin. Then of course the huge play for Fisher.

 

[txfight]

Why in earth would we go after Jimbo?

We wouldn't.

My point is who do we flex our muscle and go get?

 

[CoachBobbyFinstock]

Let's go back even further.
Early 80s, Aggy makes the FIRST big-time/big-money hire in Sherrill. Young folks today have ZERO idea of how big that hire was. Sherrill was a big success at Pitt which at that time was considered a big-time program. THey stayed in-house for his successor in Slocum, but hen thired away Franchione from ALABAMA. Of course, 'Bama was going to get hit harder than initially thought by sanctions, but still, aggy had ZERO problem hiring Franchione away from ALABAMA. Then after Fran, they plucked Mike Sherman who had been a damn good NFL HC. Then Sumlin. Then of course the huge play for Fisher.

Also, that Sherrill train paid off for years even after he left. They rode that momentum after he left in 88 for another 6 or 7 years of football they would die for again.

Forgot about getting Fran from Bama.

Texas just makes you shake your head at times.

 

[mb2cotter]

Ketch, have you seen Parasite? If it's not on your list, add it.

 

[Jeffreyb31]

We wouldn't.

My point is who do we flex our muscle and go get?

Certainly not Jimbo. He is a fraud and we are kicking the shit out of him in recruiting.

 

[Califashorn]

Your analysis in the opening paragraph lacks one essential ingredient: HEART!

 

[utlonghorn123]

B/S: While it would not be a popular hire, Major Applewhite would both improve the offense and Sam’s performance.

Correct, not popular..
I think Major is highly over rated as a coach..
Glad he’s not coming back..

 

[utlonghorn123]

↑
This board has never turned on anyone quicker than it has on CDC.

(Sell) The answer to that question is Charlie Strong.

I call bullshit on this. The board has turned on CDC in a matter of a few weeks.

I’m a huge fan of CDC...

 

[lightthetower0510]

My concern with this logic is that it’s having it both ways. Most of what we lost last season were Strong players. So if all we need to do is to recruit more talent then that implies we didn’t have the talent necessary to win. If we didn’t have the talent necessary then why are we worse after losing the guys that weren’t as good?

I’m not familiar enough with the context around Dabo’s turnaround, but perhaps there was more to it than just recruiting and time?

The Strong guys were definitely good... and they were seasoned. That's the issue.

Depth is not there yet with an all-sophomore cast except Jones, Roach, and Graham, essentially. Thompson and McCulloch were hurt most of the year.

Charles O. (Sr.)
Kris Boyd (Sr.)
Davante Davis (Sr.)
Gary Johnson (actually a Herman guy but a senior)
Anthony Wheeler (Sr.)
PJ Locke (Sr.)
Chris Nelson (Sr.)

Chris Brown was a sophomore and look at his leap in his junior year before he got hurt.

At QB and most defensive positions, experience is huge.

 

[lightthetower0510]

Brah, don't get on this board when we improve massively next year on defense.

All the seniors we lost on defense this year were pretty damn bad as sophomores.

To wit, these were common observations if you'll recall:

Charles O. (So.) – He's got a frame and potential, but when will the light come on?
Kris Boyd (So.) – Got beat routinely just like Green
Davante Davis (So.) – Got beat routinely just like Boyce
Anthony Wheeler (So.) – Overran the play almost every time
PJ Locke (So.) – Not athletic enough to play nickel (still wasn't as a senior but he knew the position)
Chris Nelson (So.) – Total JAG
Holton Hill (So.) – Stud, tbh... was a killer the next year before he effed up

 

[ranrow]

The Strong guys were definitely good... and they were seasoned. That's the issue.

Depth is not there yet with an all-sophomore cast except Jones, Roach, and Graham, essentially. Thompson and McCulloch were hurt most of the year.

Charles O. (Sr.)
Kris Boyd (Sr.)
Davante Davis (Sr.)
Gary Johnson (actually a Herman guy but a senior)
Anthony Wheeler (Sr.)
PJ Locke (Sr.)
Chris Nelson (Sr.)

Chris Brown was a sophomore and look at his leap in his junior year before he got hurt.

At QB and most defensive positions, experience is huge.

So then you agree that the solution isn't just that Herman needs more time to recruit top players and we will be fine?

He inherited good players and has recruited back to back top 5 classes. The issue is that they're not being coached up and they're not being put in a position to succeed.

 

[lightthetower0510]

So then you agree that the solution isn't just that Herman needs more time to recruit top players and we will be fine?

He inherited good players and has recruited back to back top 5 classes. The issue is that they're not being coached up and they're not being put in a position to succeed.

No, I don't agree that he needs more time to recruit... I think all those sophomores that HAD to start and play every snap this year, need more time to cook and develop instead of have to play CB, e.g., against players like Mims and Tylan Wallace.

Do you think we wanted to start all those guys on defense?

Do you think Tyler Owens should have even been on the field against TCU?

 

[utlonghorn123]

Certainly not Jimbo. He is a fraud and we are kicking the shit out of him in recruiting.

If we are doing so great at recruiting vs ATM, if that’s really true, why does it not translate to victories over MD, TCU, Baylor, ISU, etc...
Why are we 6-5 in year 3 if it’s really true that we are kicking the crud out of ATM..
On the field, I do not see it..
I also don’t want Jimbo, but I do NOT see this butt kicking you speak of, it’s certainly NOT evident on the field of play.

 

[ranrow]

No, I don't agree that he needs more time to recruit... I think all those sophomores that HAD to start and play every snap this year, need more time to cook and develop instead of have to play CB, e.g., against players like Mims and Tylan Wallace.

Do you think we wanted to start all those guys on defense?

Do you think Tyler Owens should have even been on the field against TCU?

I’m sure he didn’t, but his job is to get players ready. It’s not like they were surprised that 8 players graduated on defense. Other programs don’t suck every other year because of graduation. And none of that touches the offensive problems

 

[lightthetower0510]

I’m sure he didn’t, but his job is to get players ready. It’s not like they were surprised that 8 players graduated on defense. Other programs don’t suck every other year because of graduation. And none of that touches the offensive problems

Actually most teams that aren't in the upper echelon because of sustained development and recruiting do "suck" every other year. "Suck" being defined as inconsistent.

Just look at others in our conference, with OU being the only exception.

Other examples relevant to us right now: Michigan, Michigan State, Oregon, Nebraska, Miami, FSU, et al... the list is pretty long.

Those that don't "suck" every other year: Bama, Clemson (now after many seasons), tOSU, OU (beat last year), Georgia (beat last year), Penn State (*maybe*), and I suppose Florida.

LSU looks like they will be in that top tier now but they were pretty inconsistent before last year. (8-5, 9-3, 8-4, 9-4).

 

[Ketchum]

Truer words have never been spoken.

We laugh at Aggy but they pushed all the chips in with a NC winning coach. They took a chance on a winner with real skins.

Texas never flexes that kind of muscle.

That's true.

 

[Ketchum]

Ketch, have you seen Parasite? If it's not on your list, add it.

I have heard great things. On my to-see-list.

 

[Ketchum]

Your analysis in the opening paragraph lacks one essential ingredient: HEART!

ok?

 

[Holy Cow]

You know its a sad state of affairs as as a fan & that you've become somewhat emotionally detached & jaded when you DVR both the Dallas & Texas games, & then proceed to fast forward through much of each game because: 1. You don't want to be emotionally sucked in anymore only to find out that you were once again sucker-punched, and 2. You pretty much already knew what the final outcome was going to be anyway so why kid yourself into thinking that somehow this time was going to be any different from any of the times before. Such is now the norm of low expectations these 2 teams have cultivated.

I didn't even watch the Texas game, just read the updates and box score. Who wants to watch that painful s***. I watched about a third of Dallas game including most of the 4 quarter while making dinner for my kids. I was so unemotional after the last 4 down play, it was kind of scary. I've got no emotions left to invest in either team until changes are made in both head coaches. Otherwise, it will be same old same old.

 

[Jeffreyb31]

If we are doing so great at recruiting vs ATM, if that’s really true, why does it not translate to victories over MD, TCU, Baylor, ISU, etc...
Why are we 6-5 in year 3 if it’s really true that we are kicking the crud out of ATM..
On the field, I do not see it..
I also don’t want Jimbo, but I do NOT see this butt kicking you speak of, it’s certainly NOT evident on the field of play.

You clearly don't actually follow recruiting on this board so, there's no point in discussing that with you. Do your homework and then we can talk about the recruiting angle. From a "winning on the field" aspect, Jimbo hasn't been winning since 2015 and there are MANY Coaches that would be a better option.

 

[ranrow]

Actually most teams that aren't in the upper echelon because of sustained development and recruiting do "suck" every other year. "Suck" being defined as inconsistent.

Just look at others in our conference, with OU being the only exception.

Other examples relevant to us right now: Michigan, Michigan State, Oregon, Nebraska, Miami, FSU, et al... the list is pretty long.

Those that don't "suck" every other year: Bama, Clemson (now after many seasons), tOSU, OU (beat last year), Georgia (beat last year), Penn State (*maybe*), and I suppose Florida.

LSU looks like they will be in that top tier now but they were pretty inconsistent before last year. (8-5, 9-3, 8-4, 9-4).

That’s fair

 

[boone8466]

Urban or UT football is set for another lost decade. It’s really as clear as that.

Don’t tell me it’s a money thing. The net buyout for CTH this year or next is the same if you hire Urban.

Don’t tell me it’s a moral thing. Mack covered for Cleve who was accused of sexually harassing multiple football employees and sexually assaulted at least one of them (whom Mack was close with) multiples times - including in the damned football complex.

It’s about not wanting to make CDC look like an idiot for extending Herman and not having the balls to take on the Leftists in the academic side.

$20M to buyout CTH
$3-5M to buyout assistant coaches.
Urban is going to get...$8-10M/year?
Urban's assistants will probably get another $8M/year (Ohio State's staff is getting $7.5M this year).

So year 1 of Urban's reign in fall of 2020 will cost about $40M

I think it really is a money thing

 

[Ketchum]

$20M to buyout CTH
$3-5M to buyout assistant coaches.
Urban is going to get...$8-10M/year?
Urban's assistants will probably get another $8M/year (Ohio State's staff is getting $7.5M this year).

So year 1 of Urban's reign in fall of 2020 will cost about $40M

I think it really is a money thing

I don't think the assistant coaches would cost that much. Just an FYI.

 

[boone8466]

I don't think the assistant coaches would cost that much. Just an FYI.

the current staff? or the theoretical staff under Urban?

 

[Ketchum]

the current staff? or the theoretical staff under Urban?

gotcha.