Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (Pretty much all of this will make A&M heads explode...)

[Ketchum]

He is a beast, but Hazard is a top 5 player in the world. Mane isn't and that's ok.

Hazard is not a top five player in the world.

Mane has been a more productive player in the EPL for the last four seasons.

Mane has been significantly more productive in Champions League action. Feel free to look it up.

Mane was the best starting player on the pitch in a Champions League final in May.

Mane also isn't viewed by his manager as someone that needs to be prodded because he lacks character.

 

[jdriscoll]

Not fans or offering that she's not American.

Not saying it's right or wrong, but to a lot of Americans, the pride of representing the stars and stripes means a lot.

She chose not to, which doesn't make her un-American, but it makes it easy to not support her.

She's going to accomplish all of her greatest athletic moments in life under the Japanese flag. In international sport the common fan really cares about this sort of thing.

If she faced off against another dual nationality American in the Olympics who chooses to represent the USA, you can bet most are going to ride with the chick representing them and greatest country in the world.

 

[jdriscoll]

Hazard is not a top five player in the world.

Mane has been a more productive player in the EPL for the last four seasons.

Mane has been significantly more productive in Champions League action. Feel free to look it up.

Mane was the best starting player on the pitch in a Champions League final in May.

Mane also isn't viewed by his manager as someone that needs to be prodded because he lacks character.

Lmao. So Lampard is twice the player Stevie G was??

I know you are too new to the game to remember Gerrard, but he was just as good, if not better, than Lamps.

Context matters. Don't be dense.

 

[Ketchum]

Not saying it's right or wrong, but to a lot of Americans, the pride of representing the stars and stripes means a lot.

Perhaps too much.

 

[Ketchum]

Lmao. So Lampard is twice the player Stevie G was??

I believe that's called checkmate in the chess-playing business.

In the name of trying to be right, maybe just stick to the discussion instead of trying to create a parallel as an escape hatch when it doesn't exist.

 

[jdriscoll]

I believe that's called checkmate in the chess-playing business.

In the name of trying to be right, maybe just stick to the discussion instead of trying to create a parallel as an escape hatch when it doesn't exist.

Lol so Lampard was twice the player Gerrard was and Mane is marginally better than Hazard.

I can live with that.

 

[Ketchum]

Lol so Lampard was twice the player Gerrard was and Mane is marginally better than Hazard.

I can live with that.

You'll have to explain your oranges and to grapes example.

Frankly, Mane and Hazard are both world-class players and not exactly apples to apples.

However, Mane has out-produced Hazard. That's not an opinion. That's a fact over half a decade of sample size.

As for Lampard and Gerrard. Both were great and the stats bunch them together closely. Lampard averaged slightly more goals per game (.05), while Gerrard averaged more assists by a slightly higher margin. Both were super versatile. Gerrard did create three times as many key chances, while also having an edge in defensive stats. Both know Champions League glory. Of course, one was MOTM in a CL Final.

 

[Ketchum]

I never thought in a million years we'd be debating Mane/Hazard and the American-ness of a woman that has lived in the USA since she was three years old on page 5 of this thread, but... it's Orangebloods, baby!

 

[jdriscoll]

You'll have to explain your oranges and to grapes example.

Frankly, Mane and Hazard are both world-class players and not exactly apples to apples.

However, Mane has out-produced Hazard. That's not an opinion. That's a fact over half a decade of sample size.

As for Lampard and Gerrard. Both were great and the stats bunch them together closely. Lampard averaged slightly more goals per game (.05), while Gerrard averaged more assists by a slightly higher margin. Both were super versatile. Gerrard did create three times as many key chances, while also having an edge in defensive stats. Both know Champions League glory. Of course, one was MOTM in a CL Final.

Definitely not apples to apples. Hazard does more for Chelsea than Mane does for Pool. Hazard gets his first possession minded/attacking coach and all of his sudden his "production" is better. He and Messi are the only players with 10+ goals and 10+ assist.

Lampard out produced Gerrard for more than a decade, so using goals and assist as the barometer to determining who is better is ridiculous.

Lampard played on better teams with better players, like Mane is now. Mane is probably the 3rd or 4th best player on Liverpool. If Hazard doesn't drop deep for Chelsea then Chelsea can't unlock the oppositions midfield. This puts him out of goal/assist range much like Gerrard because SG had to focus more on defending than Lamps did.

The style of play, the manager, the supporting cast, etc. all play a key role in how much a player "produces".

Also, Hazard was the best or 2nd best player during the World Cup and is the only reason Chelsea aren't 10th or so. He's better and more valuable to his side than Mane.

It would be really embarrassing if Pool had 2 attackers better than Hazard and still had 0 trophies to show for it, but they don't so it's only slightly embarrassing.

 

[Ketchum]

Definitely not apples to apples. Hazard does more for Chelsea than Mane does for Pool. Hazard gets his first possession minded/attacking coach and all of his sudden his "production" is better. He and Messi are the only players with 10+ goals and 10+ assist.

Lampard out produced Gerrard for more than a decade, so using goals and assist as the barometer to determining who is better is ridiculous.

Lampard played on better teams with better players, like Mane is now. Mane is probably the 3rd or 4th best player on Liverpool. If Hazard doesn't drop deep for Chelsea then Chelsea can't unlock the oppositions midfield. This puts him out of goal/assist range much like Gerrard because SG had to focus more on defending than Lamps did.

The style of play, the manager, the supporting cast, etc. all play a key role in how much a player "produces".

Also, Hazard was the best or 2nd best player during the World Cup and is the only reason Chelsea aren't 10th or so. He's better and more valuable to his side than Mane.

It would be really embarrassing if Pool had 2 attackers better than Hazard and still had 0 trophies to show for it, but they don't so it's only slightly embarrassing.

Oh man, the butt-hurt is strong in you.

I'll get back to this a little later. You might consider another post because I'm going to roll this one.

 

[WapitiHorn]

Perhaps too much.

Really?

 

[jdriscoll]

Oh man, the butt-hurt is strong in you.

I'll get back to this a little later. You might consider another post because I'm going to roll this one.

YNWTL noob.

 

[UTDB]

She IS an American. She competes for Japan. The two are not mutually exclusive.

If one can determine their gender by identification then one can determine their nationality by identification. Her mother is Japanese and her dad Haitiian, She chooses to identify as Japanese. She is not an American citizen which she could chose to be if she wanted to be American. Like many other athletes and non athletes she chooses to live and train in America but still identify with another country. Until she wants to be identified as an American, she is not an American. Respect her choice.

 

[Kronic22]

She's been here since she was three and refers to herself as Japanese-American.

Shaka will be axed if he misses the tourney. Missing the tourney 2 out of 4 years means he's done. And we'll be worse next year with Roach, Osetkowski, and Hayes moving on. Unless Simms turns into what he was hyped to be, Jones returns to his early 2017 form, Baker is a lottery pick, febres learns to speak 5 languages, and Coleman turns into TJ Abramstin.

 

[HOUSTONcustomhome]

I believe that's called checkmate in the chess-playing business.

In the name of trying to be right, maybe just stick to the discussion instead of trying to create a parallel as an escape hatch when it doesn't exist.[/QUOT

Hypocrite

 

[Seftees]

Epic failure if CDC thinks Shaka can turn it around. We need new blood with the new building. Shaka has been nothing but a failure.

 

[UTDB]

This reminds me of when everyone was convinced that Charlie was gone before the KU game.

I can't make people listen.

You are confusing listening with your arrogance that if they don't agree with you then they must not be listening.

 

[Kronic22]

Less Nigerian?

Uhhh...Yes. Not sure what your getting at.

Osaka considers herself to be Japanese, based on her choices and actions. I'll defer to her.

I pay taxes in the uk, doesn't make me British.

 

[jimreynolds24]

I just watched Roma. I can appreciate the complexity of the shots. It was high art. Not sure I loved it though.

Watched Roma last night and fell asleep twice....boring as hell! Amazed its getting Oscar noms!

 

[Kronic22]

Not really, actually.

She IS an American. Only dudes who care too much about sports as a means to form their identities would (and are) suggesting otherwise.

Is Hakeem less of an African for playing for the USA? Yes or no.

Africa is not a country...

 

[Type O]

I have no idea why the Naomi Osaka comment put some people on tilt.

At the risk of taking this down the Corral path, it would be very interesting to know the political leanings of the folks stating she’s not American versus those that think she is...though actually, I could pretty much guess that right now.

Just another example of how split this country is on certain topics, to the point that there is no middle ground or compromise.

 

[Kronic22]

The example I used is one that proves how silly and preposterous the conversation of defining someone's "American-ness" by the nationality they choose to represent in sports.

Sports are like war, some would say it is the modern day outlet for jingoism. There are many parallels between the two, including many expressions and phrases. Athletes are often called warriors, games called battles or war, the national anthem and flag are raised pregame and during medal ceremonies, there are countless examples.

When you choose to represent a country in an international sporting event, that is the country you choose to be identified with. Period.

She chose the country that bombed Pearl harbor and thumbed hey nose at the country that gave her the infrastructure and opportunity to play tennis. If she were raised in Japan or Haiti, she wouldn't be a professional tennis player. She's an ingrate. I hope Americans don't embrace her as American. Much like players who choose to go to ou over Texas or aggy shouldn't be embraced as Texans after using state tax money and resources to learn football.

If she's playing an American, one who reps America, I'm rooting for the American.

Doesn't take away from the fact that she's a great tennis player.

 

[FriscoWolf]

This is where all that bloat at Bellmont pisses me off. Texas administrators go on and on about Texas having the most athletic revenues in the NCAA yet there is very little profit left over compared to other schools. The bulk of the revenues is made from the football program which gives money back to the University even during the $hitty years yet they were worried about firing Strong because of the money involved. Do these stupid eggheads at the top not realize that a successful football program will pay for even more things like academics, newer facilities, other non revenue sports in addition to bringing in more big money donations.

The men’s basketball team is one of the few revenue generating sports that can benefit UT if they put a winning product on the floor yet they are once again are worried about firing another confirmed failure in Smart because of money. Patterson was a complete failure at all aspects of his job but Texas does need a hatchet man underneath CDC to go through Bellmont and cut out all the bloat and streamline the athletic department. There is no reason that UT shouldn’t have more non revenue sports like Stanford.

 

[Kronic22]

I have no idea why the Naomi Osaka comment put some people on tilt.

Prolly because you don't understand how much she embraces her Japanese side, it's insulting to America to call her an American tennis player. She literally tours in Japan like a rock star.

 

[Kronic22]

At the risk of taking this down the Corral path, it would be very interesting to know the political leanings of the folks stating she’s not American versus those that think she is...though actually, I could pretty much guess that right now.

Just another example of how split this country is on certain topics, to the point that there is no middle ground or compromise.

You're projecting your own biases on others with that statement. I'm a liberal-moderate who is forced to vote Democrat because the Republican party is just too far right on hot button topics (environment, gun control, weed, gay rights, abortion, universal healthcare, etc).

She's not American because she chooses not to be. She should be, and should choose to be american, but she doesn't.

 

[jdriscoll]

You're projecting your own biases on others with that statement. I'm a liberal-moderate who is forced to vote Democrat because the Republican party is just too far right on hot button topics (environment, gun control, weed, gay rights, abortion, universal healthcare, etc).

She's not American because she chooses not to be. She should be, and should choose to be american, but she doesn't.

Killing it

 

[Type O]

You're projecting your own biases on others with that statement. I'm a liberal-moderate who is forced to vote Democrat because the Republican party is just too far right on hot button topics (environment, gun control, weed, gay rights, abortion, universal healthcare, etc).

She's not American because she chooses not to be. She should be, and should choose to be american, but she doesn't.

I’m not projecting anything. Your adamant response just shows how dug in you are to the topic.

Personally, I don’t know enough about her to have a opinion. Though I will say, I think it’s as simple as if she holds US citizenship papers, she’s American. If she doesn’t, she’s not.

Playing for the US or Japan in international competition is a separate discussion.

 

[Kronic22]

I’m not projecting anything. Your adamant response just shows how dug in you are to the topic.

Personally, I don’t know enough about her to have a opinion. Though I will say, I think it’s as simple as if she holds US citizenship papers, she’s American. If she doesn’t, she’s not.

Playing for the US or Japan in international competition is a separate discussion.

You are projecting your opinion that liberals are more open minded and socially aware, and thus willing to accept osaka with open arms.

You are projecting your opinionopini conservatives are all gun toting, snuff chewing slack jawed simpletons wearing MAGA caps and shouting 'Murca is for whites.

I'm not dug in, I just have an opinion.

 

[UTDB]

You're projecting your own biases on others with that statement. I'm a liberal-moderate who is forced to vote Democrat because the Republican party is just too far right on hot button topics (environment, gun control, weed, gay rights, abortion, universal healthcare, etc).

She's not American because she chooses not to be. She should be, and should choose to be american, but she doesn't.

I’m not projecting anything. Your adamant response just shows how dug in you are to the topic.

Personally, I don’t know enough about her to have a opinion. Though I will say, I think it’s as simple as if she holds US citizenship papers, she’s American. If she doesn’t, she’s not.

Playing for the US or Japan in international competition is a separate discussion.

You were projecting that political ideologies were the determining factor on whether Osaka was an American. Kronic answered that his position was based upon her choice not his political beliefs. Add me to that list as well. Osaka chooses to be identified as Japanese and from what I have in verfifed info is she does not have American citizenship. She has Japanese citizenship. You can continue to declare her an American but you nor Ketch determine her citizenship and loyalty. She has made HER choice

 

[bevo78]

Sports are like war, some would say it is the modern day outlet for jingoism. There are many parallels between the two, including many expressions and phrases. Athletes are often called warriors, games called battles or war, the national anthem and flag are raised pregame and during medal ceremonies, there are countless examples.

When you choose to represent a country in an international sporting event, that is the country you choose to be identified with. Period.

She chose the country that bombed Pearl harbor and thumbed hey nose at the country that gave her the infrastructure and opportunity to play tennis. If she were raised in Japan or Haiti, she wouldn't be a professional tennis player. She's an ingrate. I hope Americans don't embrace her as American. Much like players who choose to go to ou over Texas or aggy shouldn't be embraced as Texans after using state tax money and resources to learn football.

If she's playing an American, one who reps America, I'm rooting for the American.

Doesn't take away from the fact that she's a great tennis player.

Jesus Christ — you pulled out Pearl Harbor? What year is it? It’s sentiments like these that worry me when I think about raising kids with multiple nationalities living in a 4th country (US, Canada/Taiwan, all living in Britain).

People can belong to multiple nations. If someone spends most of their life in the US and has US citizenship, the presumption is they are American. Culturally they are American. Legally, they are US citizens. Are those whose parents brought them to the United States when they were children, who made their lives here, not as American as I am, just because I was born here? I say no. It takes, what, 8 years to apply for citizenship? I think the same should hold for children who didn’t have a choice.

One could even analogize with a Native American or even a Texan. A Navajo simultaneously belongs to the Navajo nation and to the American nation. A Texan belongs to the community of Texans as well as that of Americans writ large. There’s just less overlap in the Venn diagram with Japanese/Americans.

Those with two or more nationalities should not be less a member of a particular nation, regardless of their sport (if we go to war with Japan I’ll judge accordingly). The word for that is nativism, and it’s a slippery, slippery slope.