Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (Evaluating Herman's first (almost) 500 days...)

Ketchum

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Not sure what you are asking. Your point is about the movie or about Hollywood? If the movie, this thing was made 2 years ago or more. I don't think that was
their intentional message.
I'm saying the fact she fell for a fish has as much to say about the loneliness some women might feel when they can't find someone to fill the voids you need filled.
 

Ketchum

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You don't imagine either that I'm unaware of that fact, OR that it is a historical anomaly that I take pains to address in my post, at least by implication, YES?

Come on @Ketchum, it's not about winning a debate, it's about a reasonable and optimum approach to building a successful football program. SMDH.

You advocate building a football program with a shitty O Line. Good luck with that. Even 5 year olds are going to roll their eyes at that.
I'm not saying the offensive line is unimportant. Far from it.
 

styrbjorn

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You hush your mouth!

BTW, they did not treat Clyde well in the making of that movie.:(
I loved the movie in my youth, but neither Clint nor Sondra should have been let anywhere near a recording studio, period.
 

Dualthreat

Sign SIX Damn OL every year. That's my solution.
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I'm not saying the offensive line is unimportant. Far from it.

And it was the 2010 game, AND if Texas HAS the O Line I posit as essential, Marcell Dareus doesn't destroy Colt, pinching the nerve in Colt's throwing shoulder, and Texas goes on not only to win the game but win it handily, judging by what was happening up to that point.

You are undervaluing the essential nature of the O Line. It's been done consistently by professionals for a decade, so you're in "good" company.
 

Ketchum

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And it was the 2010 game, AND if Texas HAS the O Line I posit as essential, Marcell Dareus doesn't destroy Colt, pinching the nerve in Colt's throwing shoulder, and Texas goes on not only to win the game but win it handily, judging by what was happening up to that point.

You are undervaluing the essential nature of the O Line. It's been done consistently by professionals for a decade, so you're in "good" company.
I'm not. Seriously. I would only offer that you are underrating defensive linemen. We both stress the value of offensive linemen at the topof the totem pole.
 

Jeffreyb31

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Let's hear the argument.

I would offer that When Doves Cry and Billie Jean cancel each other out. So does "The Beautiful Ones and PYT.

Give me Darling Nikki over Human Nature.

Purple Rain the song smashes Thriller.

Let's Go Crazy stands taller than Beat It.

I haven't even mentioned I Would Die For You or Computer Blue. One banger after another.
I would offer that Prince wasn't a child molestor and even if he wasn't an AMAZING musician should win on that fact alone.
 

HllCountryHorn

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I'm not sure I follow your implication. If you've got something to say, say it. Quit pussyfooting around.

No, this is pussyfooting around. Name names:

Kobe wasn't the only one with a checkered past accepting a trophy last night. Inconsistencies are as mainstream as it gets.

You know exactly what I’m talking about with your Baylor outrage. In light of Kobe’s history of “alleged” rape and sexual assault, why aren’t you applying the same level of outrage to him and his getting the highest award the Academy offers?
 

Ketchum

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No, this is pussyfooting around. Name names:



You know exactly what I’m talking about with your Baylor outrage. In light of Kobe’s history of “alleged” rape and sexual assault, why aren’t you applying the same level of outrage to him and his getting the highest award the Academy offers?
a. The list of names would take all day. Gary Oldman is an alleged woman-beater. The list of men lacking respect for women in all kinds of manners is fairly rampant and it's not limited to one side of a political fence.

b. I have a very consistent record of thought as it relates to the lack of respect for women.

c. Every situation is different. I'm not a champion of Kobe, but I don't believe I would use the same colors to paint his situation as something similar to what happened in Waco. I find it curious you would in an effort to make an attempted "gotcha" point.
 

pied

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Which is just an average season for Kane. ;-) I think Salah finishes second and Kane third. I just think MNC is having an even more special season - hell one for the ages. I get your take, just don't think the vote will go that way.


Here's a reason it MIGHT go to Mo, and that is because of mo(mentum). See what I did there?

DeBrunye has scored one goal since 12/16. Since then he's added six assists(three coming in one game against Leicester).

Mo has scored 11 goals and five five assists in that same period. He's scored in 8 of the last 9 and simply been on fire. Clearly some good cases to be made, and the best player on the best team is always a solid one, but sometimes voters are also swayed by recent results.

Still some time to go and that could change either direction.
 

Dualthreat

Sign SIX Damn OL every year. That's my solution.
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I'm not. Seriously. I would only offer that you are underrating defensive linemen. We both stress the value of offensive linemen at the topof the totem pole.

I thought I made it clear QB and OL are coequal Job 1 for me, and DL are Job 2. I don't understand how that is underrating defensive linemen. As I tried to say in my earlier posts, the five OL I cited precede the two DL you cited for me, but the DL come immediately following.

You listed 1 OL and 2 DL. I never saw an OL that was adequate with 1 good OL. Texas had Sendlein, Studdard, and Blaylock in 2005-2006 with Tony Hills and Jonathan Scott playing as well.

In any case, thanks for the serious football discussion. As CTH says, "everything matters". :)
 

Ketchum

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I thought I made it clear QB and OL are coequal Job 1 for me, and DL are Job 2. I don't understand how that is underrating defensive linemen. As I tried to say in my earlier posts, the five OL I cited precede the two DL you cited for me, but the DL come immediately following.

You listed 1 OL and 2 DL. I never saw an OL that was adequate with 1 good OL. Texas had Sendlein, Studdard, and Blaylock in 2005-2006 with Tony Hills and Jonathan Scott playing as well.

In any case, thanks for the serious football discussion. As CTH says, "everything matters". :)
I would rank them:

1. QB

2. OL/DL
 

fainter

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Once again you rank coaches/players in superlatives terms based on recent history without mention of some of the old timers. Rick Barnes was without doubt a very good coach during his tenure at Texas, but “best ever Texas coach” without even mentioning Jack Gray is an oversight.
 

Dualthreat

Sign SIX Damn OL every year. That's my solution.
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I would rank them:

1. QB

2. OL/DL

That had been my understanding of your ranking for some time from your earlier posts. I think a QB becomes (arguably, at worst) near-moot without a capable OL, which makes it wholly illogical then to rank OL below QB if QB becomes inadequate without OL. Add to that RB, and then WR become inadequate without OL and QB play (dependent on OL), and there is a cascade of irrelevance of Offense without OL.

Being an old, I grew up when there were coaches like Bear Bryant and sayings like "games are won and lost in the trenches" and "It all begins up front". And while DL were highly valued, nobody confused them for coequal with OL (IMO) for the simple reason that you didn't have an OFFENSE without OL.

And like I said, DL is job 2, but you have a better chance with a capable OL and marginal DL than you do marginal OL and capable DL. I'm not minimizing the importance of DL.

That "defense wins championships" saying is really always predicated on an unstated assumption that your damn Offense is getting the job done. It doesn't (get the job done) without an adequate OL. It really is that simple.

Hook'em! :)
 

HorntoWin

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The issue I have with this super aggressive go for it all the time approach is Herman simply didn't have the offensive personnel or brilliant play-caller to be successful with this strategy. He went for it while ignoring the flaws built into his team's offense.

Sure his magic chart might work out if you have the 05 Texas or 05 USC offense, or Tom Brady or Carson Wentz at QB, but he failed to re-calibrate the chart for the 2017 version of the Texas offense. If he had, the chart would have told him to take points in most cases because your offense has only a 5% chance of converting 4th and goal from the 5 yard line.
Amen. I love Tom Herman, but his ridiculous “binder” and crazy overly aggressive and just plain bad decisions early in the season might have cost Texas wins over Maryland and USC and almost turned the victory over K-State in OT into a loss. Now, if Herman had Vince Young, a good OL, Jamaal Charles at RB and a poor defense, FINE, go for it on 4th and 2. But the following “binder” decisions were bad game-coaching decisions that would make DKR, Tom Landry and Mack Brown shake their heads:

- Goes for it on 4th and goal at the Maryland 4 on the first drive of the 3rd quarter down 19?
- Going for 2 after cutting the Maryland lead to 10 midway through the 3rd quarter?
- Going for it on 4th and 2 from midfield trailing Maryland by only 3 with the whole 4th quarter to go, a great punter and Maryland now depending on a shaky pure freshman QB?

- Going for it on 4th and goal at the USC 3-yard line, on the road with a pure freshman QB in his 2nd start and foregoing the precious opportunity to grab the lead 3-0?

- Going for it on 4th and goal at the K-State 2-yard line in the 1st quarter with the score tied?

We dodged a bullet and won the K-State game in OT, but early victories over Maryland and #3 ranked USC on the road would’ve triggered major momentum and a likely 10 win season.

And I didn’t even mention the fateful 3rd and 2 pass play call against Tech from the Tech 39-yard line with 2:10 to go, Tech down to 1 timeout and the world’s greatest punter ready to pin them inside their 10 IF Texas fails to make the 1st down running the football (thereby causing Tech to burn their final time out).

I believe Herman will be far better at game-management next season...
 
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Enjoying the Ride

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One thing about having a smart guy as head coach. He should be able to analyze results and figure out how to make adjustments.

I was a little worried that Herman might be too enamored of his own smartness. That he might be the kind of guy who thinks "This is the perfect plan and it is the kids' and coaches' fault that they are not getting it, so I don't have to change directions." I am very pleased that he is acting like he knows he has to make some changes, particularly around the team atmosphere.
 

Baguette

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American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God.
I love movies, but can no longer stomach watching the Oscars {one of my favorite things to watch not so long ago}, and subject myself to the liberal left's sanctimonious, hypocritical, stupid, outrageously biased/mis-informed diatribes that are vomited on the public on a yearly basis now. The great irony is that these fools don't realize they're part of the problem, and not the solution.
 

pili

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Here's a reason it MIGHT go to Mo, and that is because of mo(mentum). See what I did there?

DeBrunye has scored one goal since 12/16. Since then he's added six assists(three coming in one game against Leicester).

Mo has scored 11 goals and five five assists in that same period. He's scored in 8 of the last 9 and simply been on fire. Clearly some good cases to be made, and the best player on the best team is always a solid one, but sometimes voters are also swayed by recent results.

Still some time to go and that could change either direction.
Right now I think its
1. KDB. Absolute Box-Box beast with incredible skills and fitness level. Has not missed a game. Best player on the best team that could shatter records.
2. Salah. Could pass KDB if he keeps scoring and MNC shut it down in the league to focus on CL.
3. deGea. where would they be without him?
4. Kane. Pretty ordinary finishing for him this year. He just gets so many chances playing on that team.
 

pied

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Right now I think its
1. KDB. Absolute Box-Box beast with incredible skills and fitness level. Has not missed a game. Best player on the best team that could shatter records.
2. Salah. Could pass KDB if he keeps scoring and MNC shut it down in the league to focus on CL.
3. deGea. where would they be without him?
4. Kane. Pretty ordinary finishing for him this year. He just gets so many chances playing on that team.

Another thing that could work against de Brunye, is the fact that City are so good. A month or so, people were in awe, today they are just kind of in their own bracket and not getting as much buzz. Everyone realized the title was there some time ago and just expect them to win.

Could be wrong on that though. Might very well play the other way. Curious to see if CL results play into this as well. If City/Liverpool/Spurs make the final or make a big run, or lose unexpectedly I can see the voters taking that (unofficially of course) into account.
 

Ketchum

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Once again you rank coaches/players in superlatives terms based on recent history without mention of some of the old timers. Rick Barnes was without doubt a very good coach during his tenure at Texas, but “best ever Texas coach” without even mentioning Jack Gray is an oversight.
With all due respect to Gray, Rick Barnes is the obvious best coach in school history.
 
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Ketchum

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I love movies, but can no longer stomach watching the Oscars {one of my favorite things to watch not so long ago}, and subject myself to the liberal left's sanctimonious, hypocritical, stupid, outrageously biased/mis-informed diatribes that are vomited on the public on a yearly basis now. The great irony is that these fools don't realize they're part of the problem, and not the solution.
k.
 

Ketchum

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Right now I think its
1. KDB. Absolute Box-Box beast with incredible skills and fitness level. Has not missed a game. Best player on the best team that could shatter records.
2. Salah. Could pass KDB if he keeps scoring and MNC shut it down in the league to focus on CL.
3. deGea. where would they be without him?
4. Kane. Pretty ordinary finishing for him this year. He just gets so many chances playing on that team.
DeGea might be underrated.
 

Buda Horn

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Amen. I love Tom Herman, but his ridiculous “binder” and crazy overly aggressive and just plain bad decisions early in the season might have cost Texas wins over Maryland and USC and almost turned the victory over K-State in OT into a loss. Now, if Herman had Vince Young, a good OL, Jamaal Charles at RB and a poor defense, FINE, go for it on 4th and 2. But the following “binder” decisions were bad game-coaching decisions that would make DKR, Tom Landry and Mack Brown shake their heads:

- Goes for it on 4th and goal at the Maryland 4 on the first drive of the 3rd quarter down 19?
- Going for 2 after cutting the Maryland lead to 10 midway through the 3rd quarter?
- Going for it on 4th and 2 from midfield trailing Maryland by only 3 with the whole 4th quarter to go, a great punter and Maryland now depending on a shaky pure freshman QB?

- Going for it on 4th and goal at the USC 3-yard line, on the road with a pure freshman QB in his 2nd start and foregoing the precious opportunity to grab the lead 3-0?

- Going for it on 4th and goal at the K-State 2-yard line in the 1st quarter with the score tied?

We dodged a bullet and won the K-State game in OT, but early victories over Maryland and #3 ranked USC on the road would’ve triggered major momentum and a likely 10 win season.

And I didn’t even mention the fateful 3rd and 2 pass play call against Tech from the Tech 39-yard line with 2:10 to go, Tech down to 1 timeout and the world’s greatest punter ready to pin them inside their 10 IF Texas fails to make the 1st down running the football (thereby causing Tech to burn their final time out).

I believe Herman will be far better at game-management next season...

This guy gets it.
 
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bbussell1

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Very thoughtful analysis on Herman's first 500 days ... greatly enjoyed.

Question: I always feel like locker room discord is something that mostly comes to light well after the fact ... are we actually learning more about 2017 locker room discord now or just reporting on it more matter of factly at this point?

Comment: Talent Evaluation & Player Development always seem to take a backseat to counting stars on recruits, but as we've seen with programs like K State & TCU v. Texas, in the end those factors are more important to the end product being put on the field.
 

mvaddy

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Which is just an average season for Kane. ;-) I think Salah finishes second and Kane third. I just think MNC is having an even more special season - hell one for the ages. I get your take, just don't think the vote will go that way.

First, nine games to go is a lot so things could change but I agree with your take. If I was voting today it would be Salah. The real voters though are going to look at that monster season and find it hard not to pick the best player at Man City. A deep run in the Champions League would make that even more the case.
 
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jspirohorn

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Hardly surprising that a team which came out to support and hug Charlie Strong at a press conference after cementing a 3rd straight losing season and loss to Kansas didn’t take kindly to Herman’s ways. Herman may be a Di-k but I doubt Lil’ Urban cares.
 

McLovin327

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The first concert I ever attended was Prince at the Erwin Center, January 29th, 1985. I wasn't old enough to drive so my best friend and I had to convince my older brother to take us. My brother had a bit of Chet from Weird Science in him. He said, "Ok but you have to pay for me and my girlfriend, you guys sit in the back seat and aren't allowed to say a word on the ride there and back."

Prince in his prime. Still the best concert I've ever seen.

From the Erwin Center 1985:
princeerwincenter30jan1985byjaygodwin.jpg


From the Summit in Houston 1985:
rawImage.jpg
 

El_Chile_Relleno

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All that typing and all I remember is the good looking Co-ed, OB corrupted me over the weekend ;)
 

Ketchum

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Very thoughtful analysis on Herman's first 500 days ... greatly enjoyed.

Question: I always feel like locker room discord is something that mostly comes to light well after the fact ... are we actually learning more about 2017 locker room discord now or just reporting on it more matter of factly at this point?

Comment: Talent Evaluation & Player Development always seem to take a backseat to counting stars on recruits, but as we've seen with programs like K State & TCU v. Texas, in the end those factors are more important to the end product being put on the field.
I think there was a ton of discussion about it in real-time last year.