You did not see him push the ball down the field in areas that Shane has been hesitant to do so for much of his young career?
Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (The QB decisions Herman has to make... )
- Thread starter Ketchum
- Start date
Everyone does. But he's not been that guy yet. He flashes but he's not been a guy that's demanded the ball or man handled small dbs like he should. As Herman has said, he needs to become more physical.
So your answer is to play the QB that the defense doesn't have to worry about running and the other QB that the defense doesn't have to worry about passing over the QB who can run and pass? Bold strategy, Cotton.
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Man ..if you guys are so lit up by Ehlinger, get off the gas.! I would by no means start him against USC...there is no QB competiton..the main thing is ..did Tom and co. get that damn running game together..Warren needs to be running the ball..its ok if the opposition plans for it..Im running the ball...stop me...Elhlinger as QB..Im not confident..I like that they put Heard in to mix it up...but please,,there is no QB question. It'd be different if he beat OU or real conference competition.
The latest this team becomes Sam's is a couple weeks before next season's opener. My guess is that it happens sometime this season, but they'll roll with a platoon situation first.
Over the course of the first few weeks of training camp in August, Tom Herman tried to give every impression that he had a legit quarterback competition, as he waited until camp ended before naming Shane Buechele as his starter.
Honest assessment:
Over the course of the last week or so since Buechele injured his throwing shoulder, Herman has seemed to give every impression that he doesn't really have an active quarterback competition.
Well, I have a message for Herman ...
Ready or not, he absolutely has an active quarterback competition on his hands.
Personally, I don't know what the right answer is because it's complicated.
If healthy, I think ... I think ... Shane Buchele is his best option heading into game three of the season. He's the more experienced player, the game is probably is a little slower for him and he's currently a more accurate passer. So, if he's healthy, I totally understand Herman feeling like Buechele is the right call.
Yet, there are a few things about Sam Ehlinger that make me wonder if he will be the answer to this question by the time week 10 rolls around.
1. Ehlinger gives the offense more of a rushing component that is more natural to Tom Herman's offense than Buechele does, partly out of willingness and partly out of the constant fear that Buechele's body has shown a tendency to wear down. Having a runner at the quarterback position that knows exactly when to tuck the ball and get up-field is a critical piece of any college offense in 2017 because those are often the plays for which opposing defenses can't account.
2. Ehlinger will push the ball down the field in the passing game more than Buechele, who is much more comfortable working the underneath areas of the field. In his very first start, Ehlinger attacked areas of the field that Buechele typically does not with the same level of confidence. Ehlinger's ability to stretch the field, especially down the seams, opens up windows and doors for the entire offense in a way that is also critically needed.
3. Ehlinger is the more natural alpha. That's not really my opinion. That's based on everything that Herman has ever said about the two players, as one he is constantly asking for more of in that department, while the other seemingly has exactly what he wants.
In a perfect world, Ehlinger would have redshirted this season, but the genie is out of the bottle and isn't going back in.
The staff will have to weigh all season long the value of playing the guy who is the best option for today versus the value of playing the guy that is potentially the best player in two months.
What's the right call? Again, I'm not sure.
The hope would be that the guy being paid millions to make the right call knows exactly when to pull the strings, IF the strings need be pulled.
No. 2 – The elephant in the room going into this week ...
It remains to be seen whether Buechele will be able to play this week. As of Saturday, he hasn't been throwing the football for a week because of an injury to his throwing shoulder.
While Herman seemed optimistic about Buechele's return, he seemed to choose his words carefully on Saturday in the post-game when painting a picture of the situation.
If Ehlinger starts at USC and plays well ...
No. 3 - The thing that stands out in a good way 24 hours later ...
Anwar mentioned it on the Facebook Live post-game show and Dustin mentioned it on the message board on Sunday, but Tom Herman, his coaches and (most importantly) his team deserve credit for playing a full 60-minute game on Saturday.
It would have been easy for the team to let its guard down or for the back-ups to finish the game in sloppy fashion. We're certainly seen enough of that over the years, even with the best Texas teams, to know that it is a real possibility, especially with the crowd thinking about post-game beers at that point.
Yet, you can make a case that the Longhorns played a better fourth quarter than first quarter, which indicates that Texas imposed its will in the game and never let up.
It's not the kind of thing to throw a parade over, but 24 hours later it's still a standout moment from Saturday.
No. 4 – One thing that absolutely must improve ...
The Texas wide receivers have to play better.
In addition to too many balls hitting the ground that hit the hands of receivers, there were times when I didn't think they fought for the ball hard enough when it was in the air.
This Texas offense can get away with leaving big plays out on the field at home against San Jose State, but it will prove to be incredibly costly should Saturday repeat itself in Los Angeles.
Specifically, I think Collin Johnson needs to flip his switch into "grown-man" mode if possible because I thought he was missing some "junkyard dog" attitude against the Spartans. Texas needs him to be one of the best players on the field in its big games this season.
No. 5 – Buy or Sell …
BUY or SELL: Texas can lose to USC, but still win a "moral victory?"
(Buy) Texas got drilled by UCLA in Mack Brown's third game as head coach in Austin back in 1998, but the team played its guts out and at the end of the day, 20,000+ Texas fans gave the team a standing ovation in the Rose Bowl. A moral victory isn't a check you want to have to cash often, but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
BUY or SELL: Kyle Porter is still top two on the RB depth chart by November?
(Sell) Toneil Carter just needs more touches and he's going to climb the depth chart.
BUY or SELL: Shane Buechele starts vs USC?
(Sell) It's possible, but until I see him practicing, I will err on the side of caution.
BUY or SELL: Both USC and Texas score over 35?
(Sell) That's a level of benefit of the doubt I am not willing to give this Texas offense.
BUY or SELL: In your opinion, Chris Warren should receive at least 40 percent of the total offensive touches moving forward?
(Sell) I think he probably needs 25+ touches this week for Texas to have a chance, but over the course of the season, I'd like to see your number spread out to some of the younger backs on the roster.
BUY or SELL: Those young Texas running backs should get on the field against USC based on what we saw in the game against San Jose State.
(Buy) You can't show fear. You have to play to win, not to lose.
BUY or SELL: CTH will have a better five-year overall record than Lincoln Riley ... assuming they are both around for five years?
(Sell) The way this season could go, it's possible Riley will have twice or nearly twice as many wins in year one, which means Herman would need to outperform him to the tune of close to two wins per season over the following four years and I haven't seen enough from this Texas to assume that will take place.
No. 6 – Giving props where props are do ...
Damn, Oklahoma, that was seriously impressive.
After a pretty uninspiring first half, Lincoln Riley's boys took that game in Columbus by the throat in emphatic fashion.
THAT IS HOW YOU SEND A FREAKING STATEMENT!
You want to know how you change someone's mind about a team with a new coach? Just do that.
Also, did anyone else find it amusing to watch Bob Stoops go YOLO as a fan at the game? I don't know that he ever allowed himself to feel that good about any win he ever had.
No. 7 – How Bout Them Cowboys?
Either the New York Giants are awful or I've underestimated this Dallas Cowboys team.
Regardless, any time the Cowboys beat the Giants, it's a good day, especially when it occurs in dominating fashion.
Dak Prescott was being nitpicked by some during the game, but I thought he was excellent in what will be remembered as just a pretty good game.
He's a better football player and that is reason for real optimism.
No. 8 – You know what Sheriff Buford T. Justice would say about the Texans ...
Woof.
You can't make too much out of any first game, and I would stress that in this situation, but that opener looked a lot like the Longhorns opener. Pretty much everything was bad, except Texas had much better quarterback play than the Texans.
I guess the bottom line for me on a Hot Take Sunday Night is that I don't believe in Bill O'Brien as a head coach.
He's not the guy.
No. 9 – Eternal Randomness of the Spotty Sports Mind …
... There's going to be a lot on the line in Bedlam this year, possibly the pole position for a spot in the college playoff and the Heisman Trophy race.
... Baker Mayfield planting the OU flag in Columbus will live on in Oklahoma folklore for the next 100 years.
... Sam Darnald was 21 of 26 for 316 yards and four touchdowns against Stanford. Todd Orlando is going to have his hands full this week.
... Damn, James!
... Lamar Jackson is currently a 9/5 favorite to repeat for the Heisman.
.... DeAndre McNeil caught three passes for 103 yards and a touchdown for Florida Atlantic at Wisconsin.
... There's a very good chance that Kansas State will be a top-15 team when it comes to Austin a few weeks.
... I am so glad I'm not a Bengals fan because I'd claw my eyes out over Andy Dalton.
... If I'm a Jordan Howard fantasy owner, I'd be a tad nervous right about now.
... The Lions looked like hot garbage for a quarter and then looked like a playoff team for the final three quarters. The reverse was true of Arizona.
... Malcolm Brown scored his first touchdown of his career for the Rams on Sunday. Attaboy, Malcolm.
... Rafa. Freaking. Nadal. He's still coming for you, Rog.
... What happened with Sloane Stephens the last two weeks of the US Open was nothing short of being a future Disney movie. Six weeks ago she was barely a top 1,000 player in the rankings. Wow.
... I paid absolutely zero attention to UFC 215 on Saturday night.
No. 10 – And finally …
I''ll leave you with the most Kasey Studdard thing Kasey Studdard could possibly do this weekend.
[/QUOTE
Great columns are made even better by even half-assed editing. Good content tonight. It would be incredibly enhanced by decent editing.
It's better for the program to move on right now. It's not popular, but, it's a fact.
Sam did not throw the ball well at all should have had 2 pics vs that defense and he had all day and still missed throws. Shane can run just enough and Heard can pass just enough. WR will do better with a QB that is more accurate.
So sick of the "alpha" narrative. Completely media driven BS. Just stop it. Stick to the stats, and Shane is simply better right now.
The one thing you do know about football is that you know very little. Ease your mind and enjoy the ride from here forward.
Yes he passed it into double coverage and almost had 2 picks. His passes wobble all over the place not a pretty ball. I think he needs time to watch and learn and work on some things. He is a 6 passing and a 7 running. Texas needs a 7 and 9.
He was 15 of 27 with 5 drops, and still had an 8.2 yards per attempt. Don't apply more weight to a couple of bad throws than you are to the rest of his day.
Against Maryland, Shane missed throws when he had time, and should have had 2 INT.
Enough for what? It hasn't been enough for 13 games.
RB, OL, and the cumulative offensive production will do better with a QB that doesn't give defenses an easy scheme against us.
I miss John Candy. I grew up on Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Die Hard and Uncle Buck.
I honestly think it's not too far fetched that they could play all three for the time being.
They already burned Sam's redshirt, you may as well use him even if Buechele comes back and starts again.
You can use Heard in wildcat and Sam in some short yard ZR or just Tebow like power runs. This, in conjunction with Shane's passing can give the accuracy of SB and add the running quarterback aspect with the other two.
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Yep. Although I don't consider Heard a QB, just a wild cat guy with a pass option off it.
Agreed. I actually just added to my post stating that very thing.
Use Heard for wildcat and Sam in ZR Tebow like power runs whom you can use to throw passes as well.
I almost want Sam to start vs USC so many on here can have a reality check that will put an end, at least temporarily, to the teen crush slobbering, gush fest over Sam. Good Grief!
If Shane can't go this weekend, Sam might play well enough to take the job full time. You and others have positioned yourself to where that is a bad outcome. Great work.
You're making good sense McBizzle. These are my exact thoughts as well.
With a serviceable oline it's SB. No way we have that. QB is going to run for his life multiple times.
Over the course of the first few weeks of training camp in August, Tom Herman tried to give every impression that he had a legit quarterback competition, as he waited until camp ended before naming Shane Buechele as his starter.
Over the course of the last week or so since Buechele injured his throwing shoulder, Herman has seemed to give every impression that he doesn't really have an active quarterback competition.
Well, I have a message for Herman ...
Ready or not, he absolutely has an active quarterback competition on his hands.
Personally, I don't know what the right answer is because it's complicated.
If healthy, I think ... I think ... Shane Buchele is his best option heading into game three of the season. He's the more experienced player, the game is probably is a little slower for him and he's currently a more accurate passer. So, if he's healthy, I totally understand Herman feeling like Buechele is the right call.
Yet, there are a few things about Sam Ehlinger that make me wonder if he will be the answer to this question by the time week 10 rolls around.
1. Ehlinger gives the offense more of a rushing component that is more natural to Tom Herman's offense than Buechele does, partly out of willingness and partly out of the constant fear that Buechele's body has shown a tendency to wear down. Having a runner at the quarterback position that knows exactly when to tuck the ball and get up-field is a critical piece of any college offense in 2017 because those are often the plays for which opposing defenses can't account.
2. Ehlinger will push the ball down the field in the passing game more than Buechele, who is much more comfortable working the underneath areas of the field. In his very first start, Ehlinger attacked areas of the field that Buechele typically does not with the same level of confidence. Ehlinger's ability to stretch the field, especially down the seams, opens up windows and doors for the entire offense in a way that is also critically needed.
3. Ehlinger is the more natural alpha. That's not really my opinion. That's based on everything that Herman has ever said about the two players, as one he is constantly asking for more of in that department, while the other seemingly has exactly what he wants.
In a perfect world, Ehlinger would have redshirted this season, but the genie is out of the bottle and isn't going back in.
The staff will have to weigh all season long the value of playing the guy who is the best option for today versus the value of playing the guy that is potentially the best player in two months.
What's the right call? Again, I'm not sure.
The hope would be that the guy being paid millions to make the right call knows exactly when to pull the strings, IF the strings need be pulled.
No. 2 – The elephant in the room going into this week ...
It remains to be seen whether Buechele will be able to play this week. As of Saturday, he hasn't been throwing the football for a week because of an injury to his throwing shoulder.
While Herman seemed optimistic about Buechele's return, he seemed to choose his words carefully on Saturday in the post-game when painting a picture of the situation.
If Ehlinger starts at USC and plays well ...
No. 3 - The thing that stands out in a good way 24 hours later ...
Anwar mentioned it on the Facebook Live post-game show and Dustin mentioned it on the message board on Sunday, but Tom Herman, his coaches and (most importantly) his team deserve credit for playing a full 60-minute game on Saturday.
It would have been easy for the team to let its guard down or for the back-ups to finish the game in sloppy fashion. We're certainly seen enough of that over the years, even with the best Texas teams, to know that it is a real possibility, especially with the crowd thinking about post-game beers at that point.
Yet, you can make a case that the Longhorns played a better fourth quarter than first quarter, which indicates that Texas imposed its will in the game and never let up.
It's not the kind of thing to throw a parade over, but 24 hours later it's still a standout moment from Saturday.
No. 4 – One thing that absolutely must improve ...
The Texas wide receivers have to play better.
In addition to too many balls hitting the ground that hit the hands of receivers, there were times when I didn't think they fought for the ball hard enough when it was in the air.
This Texas offense can get away with leaving big plays out on the field at home against San Jose State, but it will prove to be incredibly costly should Saturday repeat itself in Los Angeles.
Specifically, I think Collin Johnson needs to flip his switch into "grown-man" mode if possible because I thought he was missing some "junkyard dog" attitude against the Spartans. Texas needs him to be one of the best players on the field in its big games this season.
No. 5 – Buy or Sell …
BUY or SELL: Texas can lose to USC, but still win a "moral victory?"
(Buy) Texas got drilled by UCLA in Mack Brown's third game as head coach in Austin back in 1998, but the team played its guts out and at the end of the day, 20,000+ Texas fans gave the team a standing ovation in the Rose Bowl. A moral victory isn't a check you want to have to cash often, but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
BUY or SELL: Kyle Porter is still top two on the RB depth chart by November?
(Sell) Toneil Carter just needs more touches and he's going to climb the depth chart.
BUY or SELL: Shane Buechele starts vs USC?
(Sell) It's possible, but until I see him practicing, I will err on the side of caution.
BUY or SELL: Both USC and Texas score over 35?
(Sell) That's a level of benefit of the doubt I am not willing to give this Texas offense.
BUY or SELL: In your opinion, Chris Warren should receive at least 40 percent of the total offensive touches moving forward?
(Sell) I think he probably needs 25+ touches this week for Texas to have a chance, but over the course of the season, I'd like to see your number spread out to some of the younger backs on the roster.
BUY or SELL: Those young Texas running backs should get on the field against USC based on what we saw in the game against San Jose State.
(Buy) You can't show fear. You have to play to win, not to lose.
BUY or SELL: CTH will have a better five-year overall record than Lincoln Riley ... assuming they are both around for five years?
(Sell) The way this season could go, it's possible Riley will have twice or nearly twice as many wins in year one, which means Herman would need to outperform him to the tune of close to two wins per season over the following four years and I haven't seen enough from this Texas to assume that will take place.
No. 6 – Giving props where props are do ...
Damn, Oklahoma, that was seriously impressive.
After a pretty uninspiring first half, Lincoln Riley's boys took that game in Columbus by the throat in emphatic fashion.
THAT IS HOW YOU SEND A FREAKING STATEMENT!
You want to know how you change someone's mind about a team with a new coach? Just do that.
Also, did anyone else find it amusing to watch Bob Stoops go YOLO as a fan at the game? I don't know that he ever allowed himself to feel that good about any win he ever had.
No. 7 – How Bout Them Cowboys?
Either the New York Giants are awful or I've underestimated this Dallas Cowboys team.
Regardless, any time the Cowboys beat the Giants, it's a good day, especially when it occurs in dominating fashion.
Dak Prescott was being nitpicked by some during the game, but I thought he was excellent in what will be remembered as just a pretty good game.
He's a better football player and that is reason for real optimism.
No. 8 – You know what Sheriff Buford T. Justice would say about the Texans ...
Woof.
You can't make too much out of any first game, and I would stress that in this situation, but that opener looked a lot like the Longhorns opener. Pretty much everything was bad, except Texas had much better quarterback play than the Texans.
I guess the bottom line for me on a Hot Take Sunday Night is that I don't believe in Bill O'Brien as a head coach.
He's not the guy.
No. 9 – Eternal Randomness of the Spotty Sports Mind …
... There's going to be a lot on the line in Bedlam this year, possibly the pole position for a spot in the college playoff and the Heisman Trophy race.
... Baker Mayfield planting the OU flag in Columbus will live on in Oklahoma folklore for the next 100 years.
... Sam Darnald was 21 of 26 for 316 yards and four touchdowns against Stanford. Todd Orlando is going to have his hands full this week.
... Damn, James!
... Lamar Jackson is currently a 9/5 favorite to repeat for the Heisman.
.... DeAndre McNeil caught three passes for 103 yards and a touchdown for Florida Atlantic at Wisconsin.
... There's a very good chance that Kansas State will be a top-15 team when it comes to Austin a few weeks.
... I am so glad I'm not a Bengals fan because I'd claw my eyes out over Andy Dalton.
... If I'm a Jordan Howard fantasy owner, I'd be a tad nervous right about now.
... The Lions looked like hot garbage for a quarter and then looked like a playoff team for the final three quarters. The reverse was true of Arizona.
... Malcolm Brown scored his first touchdown of his career for the Rams on Sunday. Attaboy, Malcolm.
... Rafa. Freaking. Nadal. He's still coming for you, Rog.
... What happened with Sloane Stephens the last two weeks of the US Open was nothing short of being a future Disney movie. Six weeks ago she was barely a top 1,000 player in the rankings. Wow.
... I paid absolutely zero attention to UFC 215 on Saturday night.
No. 10 – And finally …
I''ll leave you with the most Kasey Studdard thing Kasey Studdard could possibly do this weekend.
Well, so far it seems you were totally wrong about both the team you cover and your favorite NFL team. Cowboys are coming for it this year and the Horns will be fighting to get to a bowl. When you were commenting on the Cowboys I was wondering why you were being so negative. Glad I was right and you were wrong. We get through the bye with one loss max. Maybe to Denver next week, but I doubt it. They have a more pop gun offense than the Giants do.
I just cant take your QB conversations seriously anymore. You and Alex have become Sam fanboys to the point of silliness.
Sam is bigger than Shane, yes. Sams body is not likely to wear down like Shane? No. First, facts matter, Sam went out for most all his senior year in HIGH SCHOOL because his body got hurt. Shane played all year in COLLEGE, and played every play, even if with dings that hurt his performance.
Second, Sam is a decent runner based on what we saw Saturday, but he is far from a Heard, let alone Vince. Lest see what happens when he runs against a team with a pulse. Frankly, I hope if he starts against USC he doesn't have to run often.
Your other point about Sam driving the ball down the field is equally misguided. I liked Sams aggressiveness Saturday. That said, I liked Shanes aggressiveness against Md. Its a better offense than last years, which was very limited. Rarely did a throw go over the middle last year. I get that, it was a simple offense built for Shane, a true freshmen. But even with that, Shane threw many, many downfield passes. His lack of arm strength is highly exaggerated by the Sam fans, like you.
Last week Shane threw lots of passes he didn't try last year. Over the middle, wide outs, intermediates. He did fine with them. Herman said that was the plan, to get his WRs the ball on the outside to run against Md. Clearly the plan against SJS was even more wide open, and Sam threw passes all over the field.
But while Sam threw those passes, he missed on many of them, including guys wide open. His touch was non existent, and his receivers missed balls that weren't very catchable, unlike the touch passes Shane throws. And if Sam throws those wild passes next Saturday, he is going to get lit up, because even SJS should have had three picks.
Bottom line, Sam has a lot of talent, and a pretty high ceiling. I love having him on the team, and I think in time he will be a very good QB. But his play Saturday wasn't near as strong as Shanes play was last year. Shane is an unusually mature kid, likely due to growing up in a major league family. He may not be a rah rah kid, but his intensity is fine. I saw it all day Saturday, even while he wasn't playing. Its unfair that you and a few Sam cheerleaders here are running down Shanes ceiling. The kid has every bit as high a ceiling as Sam. He is a different athlete, but you put him on Bamas team and he can win a Natty.
Stick to facts please Ketch, your hyperbole and desire to be the contrarian isn't a positive for the site.
Sam is bigger than Shane, yes. Sams body is not likely to wear down like Shane? No. First, facts matter, Sam went out for most all his senior year in HIGH SCHOOL because his body got hurt. Shane played all year in COLLEGE, and played every play, even if with dings that hurt his performance.
Second, Sam is a decent runner based on what we saw Saturday, but he is far from a Heard, let alone Vince. Lest see what happens when he runs against a team with a pulse. Frankly, I hope if he starts against USC he doesn't have to run often.
Your other point about Sam driving the ball down the field is equally misguided. I liked Sams aggressiveness Saturday. That said, I liked Shanes aggressiveness against Md. Its a better offense than last years, which was very limited. Rarely did a throw go over the middle last year. I get that, it was a simple offense built for Shane, a true freshmen. But even with that, Shane threw many, many downfield passes. His lack of arm strength is highly exaggerated by the Sam fans, like you.
Last week Shane threw lots of passes he didn't try last year. Over the middle, wide outs, intermediates. He did fine with them. Herman said that was the plan, to get his WRs the ball on the outside to run against Md. Clearly the plan against SJS was even more wide open, and Sam threw passes all over the field.
But while Sam threw those passes, he missed on many of them, including guys wide open. His touch was non existent, and his receivers missed balls that weren't very catchable, unlike the touch passes Shane throws. And if Sam throws those wild passes next Saturday, he is going to get lit up, because even SJS should have had three picks.
Bottom line, Sam has a lot of talent, and a pretty high ceiling. I love having him on the team, and I think in time he will be a very good QB. But his play Saturday wasn't near as strong as Shanes play was last year. Shane is an unusually mature kid, likely due to growing up in a major league family. He may not be a rah rah kid, but his intensity is fine. I saw it all day Saturday, even while he wasn't playing. Its unfair that you and a few Sam cheerleaders here are running down Shanes ceiling. The kid has every bit as high a ceiling as Sam. He is a different athlete, but you put him on Bamas team and he can win a Natty.
Stick to facts please Ketch, your hyperbole and desire to be the contrarian isn't a positive for the site.
my 13 year old aspiring qb asked me during the game why Sam can't throw a tight spiral. I can't throw one for shvt so I don't know.........is the tightness of the spiral an indication of arm strength or just mechanics. Most of Sam's passes wobble.
Another question.......why are all of our qb roll outs designed to roll left? Makes for an awkward throwing angle. See it over and over with both Shane and Sam. Why not roll right?
Another question.......why are all of our qb roll outs designed to roll left? Makes for an awkward throwing angle. See it over and over with both Shane and Sam. Why not roll right?
