and as a restaurant in 1981
My guidelines were places 40+ years old.
Ahhhh. I see your parenthetical now.
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and as a restaurant in 1981
My guidelines were places 40+ years old.
Of the three; that's the stupidest... I can get on board with that. But I also think it's the most explicable. Like you said, fans are gonna be fans and mob mentality is a strong force.The most stupid thing of the three things you mentioned is the deal involving the fans.
This fixation with blaming the messenger is ridiculous.
Look into one.
Most years you think we are going to be good we suck. Well at least for the last 10wut?
If the context is that it happened years ago and absent a profound mea culpa and the immeadiate unanimous support of abused female associates attesting to the authenticity of the reform of that individual it would be a disgrace.I'm more educated on the subject than you probably believe, and yes, there's a lot of nuance there.
Let me put it to you like this.
Let's pick the imaginary non-racist city out there that is free of these issues. Let's say a player on the team beats a woman and his first time back on the field, the fans stand up and give him a standing ovation.
What signal do you think that sends to women, victims of abuse, etc..?
Nothing remotely like that. Ever.
a. I spent a lot of time on the East side. Personally, I wasn't wired like you.
b. Not even close to what happened with Hader. Apples and Buicks.
That's not really what anyone is discussing. Yes, people can change. That's not the topic at hand.
Fair enogh. I moved to Wisconsin in 1996. Two things I noticed. The first is that the areas that I lived in, mostly rural/suburban at first, we're over 90% White. This was not a segregation that I was used to. The second thing was that the level of sensitivity to racism was something I never experienced growing up in Texas. The people here set a higher bar that made me examine many of my own biases/prejudices.How am I wrong. Lay it out for me.
The optics are horrendous, a fact you have yet to concede.I think the fans reacted based on concerns about the motivation of someone digging around in a guy's history, going many years back to high school, to find anything they could to sabotage him with. It is completely unlike if he had said those things recently and it was being reported.
I've really said nothing about Hader. Nothing. Haven't called for a suspension. Haven't called for added apologies. It's curious to see how some have framed my comments.Please. I was raised as a "Born Again" Christian in an Assembly of God church. Lots of the fundamentalist teachings were ingrained in me. I also harbored some taught feelings about homosexuals, so in every respect (when I was in high school and college) I was homophobic. I'm sure I called people fags (friends who, as Michael Scott would say, acted gay) and made crude comments about homosexuals. Over the years, I went through an Agnostic phase, and radically changed my views on homosexuality and many other areas. None of these learned views of mine, mind you was in how I have ever viewed people from different races, but the general point remains. I was young, then grew up and developed my own views of the world which are radically different from when I was in high school and college.
Today, I'm Pro-Choice, Pro-equality in marital laws, etc today. Not because of how society has changed, but because of how I have changed.
It's completely asinine, and even offensive in my opinion, to suggest that because you never used inflammatory language about people from different groups, that nobody who has in their youth should be immune from criticism TODAY in the present from it. Especially when they have character witnesses to attest to that.
Your commentary takes people who might otherwise share their stories to further effect positive social change and makes them scared to speak up, as they would then be providing their own "social media" (thank god no twitter existed when I was a young man) evidence that they had backwards views. Very scary frankly.
There are no statute of limitations on non-crimes for a reason. They aren't crimes. Why on earth can't we accept that and not even feel like we have to forgive them? We should always evaluate situations on the specifics, instead of looking at everything in the big picture. Again, our times are very scary.
Also, where is El Patio in your list? Some great, though different, Tex-Mex of its own style. Man I miss their queso on saltine crackers. Puro Austin.
The need you have for this is off the charts.The optics are horrendous, a fact you have yet to concede.
The optics are horrendous, a fact you have yet to concede.
The need for some to die on this hill going the other direction is more the charts.The need you have for this is off the charts.
No. I thought they were being supportive of someone under attack by basically paid literary assassins. Totally different optics than if this was something he said recently.
How do you think a black person or gay person might have viewed it, or do you not care?
Yeah, I'm the one doing blacks and gays the disservice. Nailed it. lolThey wouldn't have seen it but for the journalist dragging the whole story up out of ancient history. You also do blacks and gays a disservice by assuming that they wouldn't say "wait a minute, this was years and years ago when he was a high schooler? Why is this coming up now?"
Yeah, I'm the one doing blacks and gays the disservice. Nailed it. lol
I'm done. Have a nice night.
you're focused on the wrong thing, but I realize you couldn't see it that way if we had this discussion 1,000 times.The guy searching for dirt on baseball players from years ago is who did them a disservice.
I know I’ll get some snarky remark but in over 17 yrs of feeding this place 10.00 a month that is the most mail it in column in the history of this place.
I guess the older I get, the more I care about specific examples where the nuances are. It's much easier to judge situations as it pertains to groups of people, and my empathies are always with individuals because it's their lives who are affected, not groups, in the specific situations.I've really said nothing about Hader. Nothing. Haven't called for a suspension. Haven't called for added apologies. It's curious to see how some have framed my comments.
Statue of limitations is a pretty standard expression, not exactly specific to just a court of law.
I'm also seeing a lot of examples (such as the Michael Scott one) that are comparing apples to oranges. This guy's rhetoric was as ugly as it gets. In the name of revolting against the media (it seems for some), that is being largely ignored, as is the fact that no high bar has been set in order for him to receive overwhelming support.
El patio needed to be on the list.
I don't get what's positive about pulling up something from a long time ago and tossing it in their face anyway.
Are they still that way? Do you know the person?
People change and people make mistakes.
Tossing stones at people you don't know from something they did in the past and have moved on from is hypocritical. He who doesn't sin cast the first stone. Those who seek to put others on blast are the ones that usually have issues in their own life.
Forgiveness and moving on can do a lot of positive things.
Grading sin and wrong is a dangerous area to trend in.
Neither will take us to a NC
His teammates standing up for him means nothing for me.I guess the older I get, the more I care about specific examples where the nuances are. It's much easier to judge situations as it pertains to groups of people, and my empathies are always with individuals because it's their lives who are affected, not groups, in the specific situations.
In this specific situation, a guy (who has had teammates step up as character witnesses) is living his life then gets blasted out of nowhere for statements he made 8 years ago as a child (yes, 17 is close to an adult, but still a child). He owns up to them and apologizes, and his hometown team's crowd cheers for him.
I listened to espn radio on my way home, after I posted my initial thoughts in this thread and some points were made that made me raise an eyebrow. I do have empathy for the groups that he said such hateful things about. But no one in that group has been injured, and he's an individual who now suffers from what seems to be a permanent mark on his character. 1. I don't find that fair at all. 2. I have become ambivalent about the cheers from his home crowd. But ultimately, 3 they are his home crowd.
It's much easier these days to demonize people in a moment in time, and I am not a fan of that, regardless of which side of the political landscape they fall under. Had his twitter statements been made last year, I wouldn't find much empathy for him and would fall on your side of the eeked out aisle as it relates to the crowd's reaction. But they didn't. 8 years ago. I understand the crowd's reaction. I also understand your reaction to them.
silliness.. absolute silliness.That's why they call it Social Judgement Watchdog. Dig up something from 20 years ago and use it to drive societal division and hate, with no knowledge of the current situation. If this is proof of an unsolved murder or unsolved heinous crime,.
silliness.. absolute silliness.
You're literally inventing shit that doesn't exist and thoughts that haven't been expressed, all in the name of the political ideology that has you blinded from open and real talk.For what it is worth, I attempted to delete this before it was posted. Didnt complete the post. Not sure how it got posted.
The point I was trying to make is that people make stupid mistakes when they are young. Your beliefs at 40 or 50 are usualy much different than teen or pre-teen.
Your SJW mindset is to ignore any substance or fact from the time after the offense. Even if has been 20 or 30 years. Unless the offensive person is now supporting your political agenda.
We are a country ruled by law. Not political facism. Looks like that is changing. Too bad.
What does that look like? I must miss it every time one of these issues is brought up here. You do mention it quite a bit, though.open and real talk
I don't have an expiration date on hate and vile ugliness, but that's just me. Perhaps I prioritize things differently than some.