Ketch's 10 thoughts From The Weekend (Confidence is very, very high - Part II)

[aarontxex]

@pied

More on Biles:

The never-to-be-replicated legacy of Simone Biles

After the Paris Olympics, Simone Biles has settled any debate: No matter the metric, she is the greatest gymnast of all time.

www.espn.com

Biles leaves Paris with 11 Olympic medals, four of them earned at these Games. For some, she needed these medals, because they are the means by which they will weigh her legacy. Others will base their measure of her greatness on immeasurables such as the impact she will leave on her sport, inside the competition arena and beyond. Everyone has their own calculation for quantifying the greatest of all time.

But after these Olympics, this year, this shortened quadrennium, there is no debate. No matter the metric, Biles is the greatest gymnast of all time.

EVEN BEFORE THE delayed Tokyo Olympics, many considered Biles to be the best gymnast in history. But statistically, she still had challengers. She had yet to surpass two-time Olympian Shannon Miller's medal count and, much like tennis great Serena Williams, found herself butting up against the legacies of gymnasts from an era that in many ways is incomparable to today.

By winning an eighth Olympic medal here in Paris, Biles became the most decorated American gymnast of all time. That she earned No. 8 in the team competition was especially gratifying for Biles and her teammates. Then she won a ninth, then a 10th and 11th, seven of them gold. No modern gymnast comes close. Only Larisa Latynina of the Soviet Union, who competed in three Games from 1956 to 1964, has more Olympic medals (18). Biles' 11th medal ties her with Czech gymnast Vera Caslavska, who retired in 1968.

Biles has also earned more national titles and more world championship medals than any man or woman in history, and has a combined total of 41 world and Olympic medals.

Now THIS I can buy. 😊We're going to miss her when she retires--she won't be easy to replace--We may never replace her.

I've tried to explain to some about what I think constitutes a champion and preforming like one under the brightest arenas. She's a great example.

 

[Type O]

Great article

But I feel your sources are blowing way too much bravado - a potential historically great class ?! I’d be happy if we get a top 5 class , which may still be possible - but it’d essentially require everything to go our way.

If we even lose one major piece like a fasusi , it’ll be hard to climb to a top 5 level. A historically great class is a number one ranked level of class - and I don’t see anyway we walk down Ohio state or Georgia this year . Those guys are just recruiting at another level and I think it’s a bit of a dream to expect us to land every single one of our major remaining targets

You really haven’t been paying attention the past couple of years, nor what can realistically happen this year. Nab 7-8 6.0+ rated players and Top 5 is a given. Get another 2-3 top guys and we definitely challenge for the top spot. Will it happen? Who knows, but it’s very possible.

 

[Heavy7602]

My guy said the loudest game since 1990... he must have missed the Mizzou game in 2008. We snuck into the game and stood in the lower level behind the mizzou bench and for a solid hour I couldn't understand people yelling 2 " from my ear. Literally white noise.

 

[Type O]

don't blame me dude--it's not me belaboring the point.

Uh, yes it is. The number of words you’ve typed in this thread prove it.

 

[Type O]

Per PFF he had 15 career drops in 39 games.
5 of them happened in 4 games.
5/15 is 1/3
4/39 is 10.25% or roughly 1/10

So how is what you quoted above not true? That I said 1/10 instead of 10.25%? C'mon now.


So facts don't matter when they don't fit your agenda. This is like debating with texags back in the day.

Ok, I will play along for fun. This concept of "big games, at crunch time" as you call it. How would you define it objectively? Once you define it, what was the percentage of opportunities that Worthy had where he made the catch vs where he had a drop? I think if you actually look at the data you would be quite surprised. It's typical for the mind to only remember part of the story. That's the problem with relying on something experiential as opposed to objective facts.


See the thing about stats is that it erases emotion from the equation. Sure he dropped balls when healthy. 10 over 35 games and around 205 catchable attempts. We all saw them. It was right about what you would expect, or slightly better, of any elite college receiver.


Pattern? A lower percentage pattern than most NCAA receivers, but I guess technically a pattern.


This is the oddest conclusion yet. You are either too blinded by emotion or don't pay attention to many elite receivers in college football.

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Wow, the lengths you are going to here are insane.

The reality is that even with a broken hand which made it tougher to catch the ball, Worthy was by far the best option to throw passes towards. He never once used the injury as an excuse, and did everything he could to make plays.

The assumptions that you make about Sark and risk of further injury require an incredible leap from fact to fiction. I am genuinely hoping that your pride is the only reason you are still clinging onto this nonsense.


Clearly.

It’s not “rocket surgery”. 😉

 

[jqm622]

You'll have to wait and see.

this reminds me of a few years ago when i told a friend that, if you made nba teams of alumni from each college, Texas would be #2 (this was back when KD, lamarcus aldridge, tristan thompson, avery bradley, and others were all cooking).

the caveat was that kentucky would've been able to put together like 3 or 4 squads that were better than Texas.

i think something similar will happen here. i expect Texas to bring home the silver, but you could really give all three spots on the podium to California.

 

[ScoutMLM]

The standards are higher now. She literally has moves that are named after her in 4 events than no other woman has ever pulled off.

Huge Biles fan.

I read somewhere this week that other athletes HAVE executed these moves previously, but didn't submit the request in advance to have them named (that's a thing).

I've consumed a lot of Olympics media this week, I'll try to find the link.

 

[Ketchum]

It’s been cooking. Getting the actual commitments is just the result of the work.

bingo

 

[Ketchum]

You really haven’t been paying attention the past couple of years, nor what can realistically happen this year. Nab 7-8 6.0+ rated players and Top 5 is a given. Get another 2-3 top guys and we definitely challenge for the top spot. Will it happen? Who knows, but it’s very possible.

yup

 

[Ketchum]

this reminds me of a few years ago when i told a friend that, if you made nba teams of alumni from each college, Texas would be #2 (this was back when KD, lamarcus aldridge, tristan thompson, avery bradley, and others were all cooking).

the caveat was that kentucky would've been able to put together like 3 or 4 squads that were better than Texas.

i think something similar will happen here. i expect Texas to bring home the silver, but you could really give all three spots on the podium to California.

Cali is ridiculous. They could have 5 or 6 teams deep on the podium.

 

[Ketchum]

Huge Biles fan.

I read somewhere this week that other athletes HAVE executed these moves previously, but didn't submit the request in advance to have them named (that's a thing).

I've consumed a lot of Olympics media this week, I'll try to find the link.

Please do.

 

[onemerritt]

Sorry @ketch Mahomes does not belong on the list today. As you said when done, probably. But if he died today he would not make it. Also think Carl Lewis could be one to consider to take his spot.

 

[Ketchum]

Sorry @ketch Mahomes does not belong on the list today. As you said when done, probably. But if he died today he would not make it. Also think Carl Lewis could be one to consider to take his spot.

If he died today, he's one of the top 3-5 quarterbacks to ever play the game.

He absolutely belongs on the list.

 

[sodiumacetate]

Your stats are not what I object to--what I am objecting to is rationalizing and excusing away his costly drops because a coach with a vested interest, says he had a broken hand, particularly the way it was presented--very little information was given--that's not convincing to me. I'm sorry, you don't like that, neither does Ketch, that's too bad--I am skeptical-for what I think is good reason, particularly with Worthy, who is known for dropped passes.

So what you object to is that the account given by Sarkisian, which is supported by all objective data, is inconvenient because it means that all of bad feelings you had about Worthy were invalidated. Even with all of the facts that support it, you would rather cling to the hurt you felt when Worthy dropped those passes.

You actually think it's more likely that Sark was lying through his teeth and Worthy wore a fake cast, and the statistical anomaly just happened to line up exactly with the time period, than it is you might have been wrong.

There is a reason that fan is short for fanatic.

I'm not saying I have all the answers on this, but you don't either. Unless you're Worthy's doctor, you are guessing--you haven't provided any medical information that would answer questions about whether or not he actually had an injury--you just parroted some else and spewed PPF stats, which is fine I guess, but useless to my point.

You think the only person who knew the details of the injury was Worthy's doctor? You don't think it was whispered about in real time? Sark does as good a job as I've ever seen about keeping things in house, but kids still talk.

Once again, how are the stats useless? You don't like them because they contradict your feelings. Maybe that's why they are useless to you.

And, I've already given you my criteria for what constitutes champions, elite players, big moments, clutch performances etc--not going over that again, I've explained it multiple times, go back and re-read what I said. Again, we can talk off-board if you want, but anyone who knows and follows sports should know what those terms mean.

No, you have not defined the criteria... for example, is "big game" defined by ranked opponent, or top 5 opponent, or bowl game, or playoff game, or rivalry game (and what defines a rivalry game,) etc. "Crunch time" is even more nebulous. Does that mean only less than 4 minutes, less than 2 minutes, 4th quarter, all red zone, only some redzone, when down by less than one score, by down than less than two scores, etc.

See, unless you define the parameters, you can't determine the framework by which to evaluate objectively. You can only go off of feelings.

If you actually did this, and then review every chance that Worthy had to make a catch, you would see that he wasn't as bad overall in those scenarios as you remember.

 

[Ketchum]

So what you object to is that the account given by Sarkisian, which is supported by all objective data, is inconvenient because it means that all of bad feelings you had about Worthy were invalidated. Even with all of the facts that support it, you would rather cling to the hurt you felt when Worthy dropped those passes.

You actually think it's more likely that Sark was lying through his teeth and Worthy wore a fake cast, and the statistical anomaly just happened to line up exactly with the time period, than it is you might have been wrong.

There is a reason that fan is short for fanatic.


You think the only person who knew the details of the injury was Worthy's doctor? You don't think it was whispered about in real time? Sark does as good a job as I've ever seen about keeping things in house, but kids still talk.

Once again, how are the stats useless? You don't like them because they contradict your feelings. Maybe that's why they are useless to you.


No, you have not defined the criteria... for example, is "big game" defined by ranked opponent, or top 5 opponent, or bowl game, or playoff game, or rivalry game (and what defines a rivalry game,) etc. "Crunch time" is even more nebulous. Does that mean only less than 4 minutes, less than 2 minutes, 4th quarter, all red zone, only some redzone, when down by less than one score, by down than less than two scores, etc.

See, unless you define the parameters, you can't determine the framework by which to evaluate objectively. You can only go off of feelings.

If you actually did this, and then review every chance that Worthy had to make a catch, you would see that he wasn't as bad overall in those scenarios as you remember.

 

[Dave C2]

Of course it is, I just have a bit of pause before making that type of comparison.

Quinn isn’t proven, the WR starters/rotation are still in question (no idea of the offensive chemistry), DL are above-average and the secondary is no DBU.

For me, the OL and RB are the only two positions I’d say aren’t uncertain.

I’d like to see this team get through the first half of SEC conference play first. Before this, I just have too many questions.

What exactly does Quinn need to do to be proven?

That is not to say he's the best quarterback in the country or that he can't improve.

But as a team goes into a season fans and coaches dream of going in with a quarterback who has two years of starting experience, has won a conference title, and has playoff experience as well. Not sure what else you want...short of a returning Heisman winner who won the National Championship.

 

[Dave C2]

Nolan Ryan was born in Refugio.

I envision this being said in Ron Franklin's voice.

 

[Ketchum]

What exactly does Quinn need to do to be proven?

He's proven.

 

[CS]

The next 10 for Cali has....

John Elway
Rickey Henderson
Florence Griffith-Joyner
Billie Jean King
Jackie Robinson
Duke Snyder
Mark Spitz
Tony Gwynn
Venus Williams
Marcus Allen
OJ Simpson
Anthony Munoz
Greg Lemond
Randy Johnson

It just goes on and on and on....

Rickey Henderson is not behind Leslie Leslie. He's not behind Joe DiMaggio as an athlete, though maybe you're giving extra credit for DiMaggio being a cultural icon. Henderson was a better athlete and a better baseball player.

 

[Dave C2]

He's proven.

That is my point. I wanted the guy to tell me.

 

[Ketchum]

Rickey Henderson is not behind Leslie Leslie. He's not behind Joe DiMaggio as an athlete, though maybe you're giving extra credit for DiMaggio being a cultural icon. Henderson was a better athlete and a better baseball player.

In ESPN's ranking of the top baseball players of all-time, Henderson was No.23 and Dimaggio was No.16.

Not that its set of rankings is the end all, be all on the matter, but it's not a hot take to rank DiMaggio ahead of Ricky.

Ricky was a Top 10 player in WAR in 10 of his 25 seasns.

Joe was Top 10 in WAR in 12 of his 13 seasons.

As for Leslie, she's regarded as one of the top 5 best women's players in the history of her spot. I don't have an issue with som eone believing Ricky should be ahead of her, but her case for the sot is really strong. Her bio is incredible.

Two championships (2001, 2002); three-time MVP (2001, 2004, 2006); two-time Finals MVP (2001, 2002); ninth all time in scoring, fifth in rebounds, second in blocks; three-time rebounding champion; two-time Defensive Player of the Year; first to dunk in the WNBA; eight-time All-WNBA First Team; three-time all-defensive team

 

[CS]

In ESPN's ranking of the top baseball players of all-time, Henderson was No.23 and Dimaggio was No.16.

Not that its set of rankings is the end all, be all on the matter, but it's not a hot take to rank DiMaggio ahead of Ricky.

Ricky was a Top 10 player in WAR in 10 of his 25 seasns.

Joe was Top 10 in WAR in 12 of his 13 seasons.

As for Leslie, she's regarded as one of the top 5 best women's players in the history of her spot. I don't have an issue with som eone believing Ricky should be ahead of her, but her case for the sot is really strong. Her bio is incredible.

Two championships (2001, 2002); three-time MVP (2001, 2004, 2006); two-time Finals MVP (2001, 2002); ninth all time in scoring, fifth in rebounds, second in blocks; three-time rebounding champion; two-time Defensive Player of the Year; first to dunk in the WNBA; eight-time All-WNBA First Team; three-time all-defensive team

Do you know how many guys ahead of Rickey in all-time WAR have color photographs?

Seven.

Three of those (Bonds, Clemens, and Rodriguez) are guys the Hall of Fame voters won't induct due to cheating. Since color photography, only four guys have provided more value on the diamond than Rickey (not Ricky) Henderson while not cheating to do so:

• Willie Mays
• Hank Aaron
• Stan Musial
• Ted Williams

But, yeah, Lisa Leslie.

 

[Ketchum]

Do you know how many guys ahead of Rickey in all-time WAR have color photographs?

Seven.

Three of those (Bonds, Clemens, and Rodriguez) are guys the Hall of Fame voters won't induct due to cheating. Since color photography, only four guys have provided more value on the diamond than Rickey (not Ricky) Henderson while not cheating to do so:

• Willie Mays
• Hank Aaron
• Stan Musial
• Ted Williams

But, yeah, Lisa Leslie.

I'm not anti Rickey. I don't really have an issue with anyone that would want to flip them.

You're being emphatic about saying the best bulldog in the world is better than the best German Shepard.

Everyone in this discussion is an all-timer in their sport at the highest levels.

 

[CS]

I'm not anti Rickey. I don't really have an issue with anyone that would want to flip them.

You're being emphatic about saying the best bulldog in the world is better than the best German Shepard.

Everyone in this discussion is an all-timer in their sport at the highest levels.

Rickey is a top 10-20 baseball player of all time.

Leslie is not a top 10-20 basketball player of all time. She's not top 100 or even 1,000.

 

[Ketchum]

Rickey is a top 10-20 baseball player of all time.

Leslie is not a top 10-20 basketball player of all time. She's not top 100 or even 1,000.

She is in her sport.

She's a 3-time MVP. She's a 2-time Finals MVP. She's an 8-time first-team All-WNBA selection.

She has four gold medals in the Olympics.

She was a two-time All-American.

 

[CS]

She is in her sport.

She's a 3-time MVP. She's a 2-time Finals MVP. She's an 8-time first-team All-WNBA selection.

She has four gold medals in the Olympics.

She was a two-time All-American.

White knight gonna white knight.

 

[Ketchum]

White knight gonna white knight.

It's amazing that you believe putting respect on Lisa Leslie's career is white knighting.

 

[CS]

It's amazing that you believe putting respect on Lisa Leslie's career is white knighting.

Can aks you a question? Can you please articulate yourself like the middle-aged white dude you are?

 

[aarontxex]

Uh, yes it is. The number of words you’ve typed in this thread prove it.

I appreciate your point--and I understand what you're saying--in this case, it's not emotion. Full transparency.

On a quite a few posts, I've typed a lot of words--a lot. Trying to make a point and maybe persuade a few folks? Yes. Do I aways believe everything I write? Often yes, sometimes, I'm just trying to be a smart@ss or get laughs--or to write something different, perhaps provocative. Have I done that intentionally at times? Yes. My apologies. Has it been fun when I do that? Yes.

(for example, I am definitely a fan of Ketch, and I enjoy discussing stuff with him (and a lot of people on this cite) but admittedly I was trying to pull his chain a little on Worthy, because I think it riles him up--I think it worked--and it probably, and inadvertently had that effect on a few others. My apologies--it wasn't intended.

I've read a lot of good posts that are long--I don't automatically assume that they're emotional.


A lot of the great works of history, literature, philosophy--medicine--have a lot of words.

Don't get me wrong--I'm certainly not comparing those to this. Gawd forbid.🫤
Doesn't mean emotion. Sometimes you can write to try to keep your typing skills up.

Here's when I get emotional--when the Longhorns underachieve, and a receiver who's better than that drops a TD pass in the endzone multiple times when it's in his hands. That pisses me off.

I don't get mad at posters--particularly Longhorn fans who want the same thing I do--excellence and victory.

 

[CalHorn81]

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That photo will become iconic.

 

[Ketchum]

Can aks you a question?

Can you please articulate yourself like someone that has English as his first language?

 

[CS]

Can you please articulate yourself like someone that has English as his first language?

 

[Ketchum]

 

[aarontxex]

So what you object to is that the account given by Sarkisian, which is supported by all objective data, is inconvenient because it means that all of bad feelings you had about Worthy were invalidated. Even with all of the facts that support it, you would rather cling to the hurt you felt when Worthy dropped those passes.

You actually think it's more likely that Sark was lying through his teeth and Worthy wore a fake cast, and the statistical anomaly just happened to line up exactly with the time period, than it is you might have been wrong.

There is a reason that fan is short for fanatic.


You think the only person who knew the details of the injury was Worthy's doctor? You don't think it was whispered about in real time? Sark does as good a job as I've ever seen about keeping things in house, but kids still talk.

Once again, how are the stats useless? You don't like them because they contradict your feelings. Maybe that's why they are useless to you.


No, you have not defined the criteria... for example, is "big game" defined by ranked opponent, or top 5 opponent, or bowl game, or playoff game, or rivalry game (and what defines a rivalry game,) etc. "Crunch time" is even more nebulous. Does that mean only less than 4 minutes, less than 2 minutes, 4th quarter, all red zone, only some redzone, when down by less than one score, by down than less than two scores, etc.

See, unless you define the parameters, you can't determine the framework by which to evaluate objectively. You can only go off of feelings.

If you actually did this, and then review every chance that Worthy had to make a catch, you would see that he wasn't as bad overall in those scenarios as you remember.

I'm more inclined to not believe coaches in a press conference, when it comes to injuries, particularly when it's regarding a player that is not always reliable on the field. Correct. Your stats, and Ketch's stats? fine. I think coaches by virtue of their job lie along lie. Yes, they lie a lot--and about injuries.
Casts, braces, foot boots, can be worn all the time, for a variety of reasons--it can be protective. Doesn't mean he's crippled.
If Worthy was cleared to play--by the doctors, and coaches. Then it's logical that they didn't think that would impact him. And thus, shouldn't be used as an excuse--particularly with a player with a pattern. Again, players play at high levels all the time with injuries.

And yes, I have defined what is a big game, crunch time, elite play. It's in my previous posts--I believe I even told Ketch what they were some time back--on the same discussion about-- Worthy.

 

[Ketchum]

Apparently, in CS' world this is a bullshit stat.