I hope you're right. I like KC and I like Worthy. Right now, though, we don't know that for sure.Worthy is gonna be Rookie of the Year this season
I hope you're right. I like KC and I like Worthy. Right now, though, we don't know that for sure.Worthy is gonna be Rookie of the Year this season
It depends how you define "peak".what's the justification? At their peaks, Ryan was never as good as Clemens.
In 2022. Yes.a. So your saying that he had no drop issues prior to the last 1/4 of the season?
b. Specifics I think matter, particularly when you're using this as the reason he had dropped passes
c. Maybe, but if the coaches thought he could play through it, then they made a judgement call that his hand was not hurt enough to make a difference in the game. If it did, he shouldn't have been in the games to begin with.
But, Ryan was never the best pitcher in any given year. Clems was that dude repeatedly.It depends how you define "peak".
I think its fair to say that there were at least seven times Nolan had a peak greater than any Roger ever had.
Also, and perhaps most importantly, I like Nolan better.
If I need a pitcher for an entire season...I'd probably take Clemens.
If its just one game? Time to get a ticket on the Nolan Express.
If I had expanded to 20, I would have included him. As it was, I had to leave off the NFL's No.5 all-time leading rusher.
It really comes down to that for me. Your list - your rules. I was just commenting on what I would have done.But, Ryan was never the best pitcher in any given year. Clems was that dude repeatedly.
But, I understand liking him more.![]()
So he had a big , catchable late 4th quarter TD drop in the ok state game in Stillwater that year that could've sealed the win for Texas, and was outside the last 1/4 of the season. It was mid season actually. Can't use the broken hand to explain that one--he blew it.In 2022. Yes.
The coaches felt like a limited Worthy with drops was better than any other option it had.
He had 7 drops that season per PFF. 5 occurred in the last 4 games after the injury. He had 2 in the first 9 games.
That's not a subjective position. It's a posting of facts.
It's like the dog competitions. How do I rank a poodle vs. a bull dog.These kinds of lists are always contentious. Everyone has their own criteria.
As an aside, I remember trying to ride a 10 speed up a small hill in Boulder, Colorado and though my legs were going to explode. I can't imagine doing that through the French Alps over 150 miles.
Generically, thinking of Cy Young Awards.It really comes down to that for me. Your list - your rules. I was just commenting on what I would have done.
Just curious, but are you basing "the best pitcher in any given year" on Cy Young awards? I can understand and respect that position.
However, be careful. Thats subject to voting and bias.
(see: Bush, Reggie - Heisman)
So he had a big , catchable late 4th quarter TD drop in the ok state game in Stillwater that year that could've sealed the win for Texas, and was outside the last 1/4 of the season. It was mid season actually. Can't use the broken hand to explain that one--he blew it.
He also fumbled a ball at kansas state at a critical time of the game (the second half)-also outside the last 4 games of the year.
Worthy's issues were not hand related; they were mental. And he struggled with pressure. The broken hand had nothing to do with it.
So those balls that he dropped that were in his hands--balls that you could've caught--nobody else could've made those catches?In 2022. Yes.
The coaches felt like a limited Worthy with drops was better than any other option it had.
Could make the case that both should be behind Peterson and LTCampbell at 7, but no Dickerson in the top 15? I feel like they'd be tied on my top football player from Texas list.
The coaches would tell you that no one else would have gotten open to be in a position to make those catches.So those balls that he dropped that were in his hands--balls that you could've caught--nobody else could've made those catches?
Oh man...didn't even think about Dickerson. LT also.Campbell at 7, but no Dickerson in the top 15? I feel like they'd be tied on my top football player from Texas list.
The Dickerson vs. LT battle is a very good one.Oh man...didn't even think about Dickerson. LT also.
Shit -- Dickerson should be on the list, if only for the Gold Trans Am. LOL
He injured the hand against Kansas State. Honestly, you should get a better handle on things and his situation before having such an emphatic set of thoughts.
The data I have given you is not subjective.
Remember Geoff,He injured the hand against Kansas State. Honestly, you should get a better handle on things and his situation before having such an emphatic set of thoughts.
The data I have given you is not subjective.
Florida is incredibly disappointing. Basically the '95 cowboys (deion, emmitt, irvin) and a bunch of mediocrity.Florida is no where near as impressive and is football dominated in a massive way.
Remember Geoff,
You're the one who keeps up the rationalization of Worthy's drops
BingoFlorida is incredibly disappointing. Basically the '95 cowboys (deion, emmitt, irvin) and a bunch of mediocrity.
could argue that they had the two most naturally gifted basketball players of all time (vince carter & t-mac), but when those are your two best options, you don't have much to talk about.
The coaches would tell you that no one else would have gotten open to be in a position to make those catches.
Do you not remember 2022? They literally tried a different guy every week on the other outside spot.
I don't remember the coaches telling us that at all.
Thanks Mardoc
I'm more saying that the greatest American Handball player of all time isn't the greatest athlete of all time.....
It isn't as popular or prestigous enough sport to warrant it -> even if someone is head and shoulders above everyone else.
I'm not downplaying her greatness / I am just saying it isn't a worldwide top sport -> if it was and specialized training wasn't such a factor / these few countries wouldn't dominate it like they do.
I think you've brought up some god points here. I think one thing to keep in mind is that all/most sports in the US are dominated by "travel ball" whether that's basketball/baseball/soccer/volleyball/track/softball/etc. Gymnastics certainly falls in that category and they do cost a lot of money. In my experience, there aren't truly elite kids in any sport that are paying much if anything to play on the best AAU teams or MLS Next/ECNL soccer teams or whatever.
I don't know but suspect it's the same in gymnastics.
Another thing you bring up and I'm not sure how to reconcile is the degree to popularity or prestigiousness of it. If so, I'm not sure we can consider baseball or football at the top and not sure where it would fall world wide.
For me, my list would be different and I don't think I'd have Biles at the top but can understand the case being made for her.
And all of the competitive cyclists in that era were all found guilty of doping--and yet Lance is the one who got banished--because he was a defiant asshole. If he didn't come back and race in the tour as an old man, he would have literally ridden off into the sunset.I'll find a way to persevere through leaving a disgrace that his sport still hasn't fully recovered from off the list.
He has literally been stripped of his accomplishments.
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Yes, and the drops were also actions--which is what we're discussing. Also bringing in a receiver like Adenai Mitchell and throwing to him when they really needed critical catches was also an action that suggested, they wanted a receiver with better hands under critical moments to throw to.They told us with their actions. Do you remember those?
Not sure I would respect the opinion of anyone putting Earl behind those three. (AP, ED, & LT)Could make the case that both should be behind Peterson and LT
Being in a position to make catches is not the same as actually making those catches. We could have Noah Lyles at receiver, and if he muffs critical balls, that doesn't do us much good.The coaches would tell you that no one else would have gotten open to be in a position to make those catches.
I'd put those guys as 2A/B on a list behind Earl if we were to filter down to just "Texas HBs".The Dickerson vs. LT battle is a very good one.
She made a big mistake on the balance beam today--och.
She's the only athlete on the list that is the GOAT of their high level sport.
In fact, there's no one else that's really even close.
Jesus Christ dude, you’re the AntiKetchShe made a big mistake on the balance beam today--och.
No I'm a big fan of Ketch. But he's the one that keeps bringing up Worthy's hand to justify his drops--not me.Jesus Christ dude, you’re the AntiKetch
Just for clarification, did you say Biles was the greatest gymnast of all-time or the greatest athlete of all-time?The greatest gymnast of all-time was orphaned because they were so poor, but sure...