Ketch's 10 Thoughts From the Weekend (Heads need to roll in Waco)
- Thread starter Ketchum
- Start date
I'm not. At all. What cause do you think they're championing? Seriously. With all the periphery info, the weeping, the Twitter campaign.... What's the goal? What's the endgame? That's what I mean. What cause is being championed here? Fire Art Briles? For what, exactly? Arrest Art Briles for rape?
It is quite obvious to everyone at this point what your agenda is. Clearly you have some connection to the Baylor program, and clearly you have gone on a mission to just mess with people at this point. Time to put the bottle down and call it a night.
While there's a lot of blather against Ketch's lov I think you make a good point for patience. Lawyers and crisis managers could easily be mucking up a more human and empathetic response.
Now that said, I felt like Ketch outlined a pretty good case for the most likely path. And it's been an ugly road of bad decisions.
I like another's response about the school and coach paying for the crime more than the dang rapist. Light sentence? Was it just a little rape? A light sexual assault? Would love to hear the jury's explanation on that.
Join in to help create the noise that will eventually cause the right people to act. After all, he has a pretty good size soapbox. Several people deserve to be fired over this. For what happened before the crime, and much more so after. Not have a deal like at ND where no one did anything and the girl killed herself. I have often disagreed with Ketch but bottom line is, this is his deal, his website, his business. He can do as he pleases. Don't think it matters to him who agrees or disagrees on this one. I've taken stands in my life and business, and something tells me you have, too. Some of it maybe from the old dude on the radio telling him he was too small to make a difference. If so.....so be it. I would have done the same. I'm guessing you would have to. We can all just agree to disagree. It'll all be okay. Hook'em.
For the victim of a crime...a crime that was enabled by adults who were supposed to protect her. Man, I feel sorry for you if your moral compass can't fixate on that. And it turns out that you are indeed questioning the motives of good people.
You're so missing the point. You want to be mad at someone? Be mad at the leaders of the internal investigation of the case. Be mad at the Boise PD for not going after the guy when all of his alleged other issues happened. Be mad at us for creating a society that is obsessed with the results on a field. Be mad at the NCAA for suspending kids for having a sandwich with an assistant on that coaches dime while they allow allegedly violent kids to transfer from place to place unencumbered. Be mad at Mack Brown for blaming narcolepsy when Sergio Kindle nearly murdered several people by driving through an apartment building. Be mad at Mack Brown when Case and Jordan Hicks ran a train on a girl, filmed it, and it just went away. There are lots of places to be mad. I'm just not sure that Art Briles is the rational place for that anger to land. I'm also not sure that Art Briles would be the fixation had he not taken Baylor where many believe they have no place being.
See where I'm going with all that? Don't make the asinine assumption that I don't feel for the victim. Nothing about what's going on here feels like it has anything to really do with the victim to me. Perhaps I should attempt to drum up a Twitter battle with Art Briles to prove I care. Or perhaps I should weep. Or..... Do you see? Do you see how some may find it a bit off?
If you don't feel the same way, that's fine. I haven't really tried to share my feelings about the situation on here. I offered my thoughts on the thread that got BOBA banned. My main issue was that some folks don't feel a certain way and they shouldn't be booted off the site for that disagreement. I'm not at all trying to convince anyone of anything. Just providing a differing viewpoint shared by more than a few folks.
Honest question: Can we not agree that BOBA got booted more for a body of work of trolling, than for a stance in one thread? Also, I knew right when it happened, he'd be okay and back in a day or two. Pretty sure he's had a few time outs before. I guess what I'm asking is, if we keep debating this topic , which is a big topic to many here, can we leave BOBA's time out out of it? If it's a major point to you, then I understand.
Also don't see the point in bringing up the Case and Jordan tag team. That girl was a willing participant.
A few things if you care to read and digest them from someone that has an intimate knowledge of the legal system, evidence rules, procedural rules, and some idea of basic communication between individuals that doesn't always come across as it may be intended:
- First, I know you do not have an agenda that is in anyway looking to protect Briles/Baylor as @Take Dead Aim has suggested. I don't really know you as a poster TDA, but @texasguy2310 is unquestionably an entrenched Longhorn fan and graduate if memory serves me correctly. This is not an issue where some Baylor troll is outing themselves;
- Second, the Boise PD shouldn't be in the conversation here. Boise St., it's administration, and coach all acted swiftly to get this animal out of their program and school. I've seen nothing to suggest that his ex-girlfriend who was the subject of his violence was looking to press charges which is not shocking. She was scared, went to the administration/police, they protected her and had a plan to keep her away from Sam U., called his parents to inform them of what happened, and basically expelled him from campus. If Baylor acted in an even remotely similar fashion, do you think anyone is talking about this right now?
- Bringing up other miscellaneous issues with the NCAA when a now convicted rapist--say that outloud: a convicted rapist--was allowed to stay on campus, protected by the administration and coaching staff when they said a few months ago they expected him to return to play football after his "issues" (which is apparently Baylor code for "rape trial") were resolved, is completely irrelevant when discussing this specific topic. Could we have a long talk about necessary reforms to the NCAA? Sure, we could do that for a while, but when it comes to a female being raped, then basically ignored and forced out of the university by the university administration, it's not really the time or place to have that discussion. This goes for the Case/Hicks situation as well--while those guys will never be confused with upstanding gentlemen by anyone that knows that story, they didn't pin down an 18 year old virgin, rape her, tell her "this isn't rape" while raping her, then stay enrolled and graduate while standing trial for rape at their respective universities (later being convicted of rape).
- Art Briles knew the kids violent history against women, admitting he knew of a "rocky relationship with his ex-girlfriend," and I know you aren't the person that believes Briles' bullshit about that subject coming up only in the context that the kid was depressed. Peterson issued his statement that he fully appraised Briles of the situation and Briles changed his story in less than 12 hours to include the fact he knew of the relationship history of the ex-girlfriend, which he earlier said nothing other than depression and being homesick was ever discussed. You would think that asshole would bring up knowing about the ex-girlfriend, even if he's lying about the context, originally when he's denying knowledge about anything unless he thinks no one will call him out which is exactly what Peterson did. That is not an insignificant detail to omit when that ex-girlfriend is testifying against your player;
- I think your issue is with who is covering it in detail and why--which when stepping back and viewing objectively, I don't think you're making a bad point--although the fact someone/anyone is trying to keep this at the forefront of discussion, regardless of motivation, isn't a bad thing IMO. It's disgusting what happened and I don't really care if the heat that stays on Briles/Baylor is coming from an objective or biased journalist--I just hope it keeps coming;
- I think I've covered my thoughts on the BOBA issue, but despite all the thoughts I feel like I've spelled out in pretty specific detail, I think I've come around to the position that I hope @Ketchum let's him back on the board after a couple week timeout. I've seen guys like @echeese (see, tagged ya!) benefit from a little time-off when they were really pissing off a lot of people (rightly or wrongly), and BOBA probably deserves the same instead of an outright ban. I can't believe I'm typing that and it probably won't change my stance on reading his posts, but fair is fair is fair.
Iceman gets it and I am confident many others do also. Congrats to us all. We learned.
Having said that, it is exasperating to say the least that women are still demeaned by some on this board and elsewhere, and yet if you ask these same people about their mother, wife, sister, daughter, etc., you hear about their heartfelt pride in accomplishment, their love and admiration, and a sincere sense of loss if something happens to them, even if it is their death from natural causes.
We have made much progress in this area in my lifetime as we learned - sometimes begrudgingly - that women are not only quite capable of demanding and deserving of our respect on a personal level, but also in the classroom, the boardroom and at the highest levels of public service.
Regrettably, we still have a lot of work to do when it comes to violence towards woman, as evidenced by recent sports news stories and conversations on this board. Yeah, Baylor is on the front page right now, but think back when Coach Strong was hired. It will be awhile before I forget the opposition by some because among other things he was not going to tolerate his players mistreating women. Ironically, his core beliefs are what most of use as a baseline standard for rearing our children.
I don't know what causes this sometimes violent behavior much less disrespect towards women, but I believe it can change, even if we have to learn the why and the how one man at a time. Thanks to Iceman for laying the predicate in a forceful and easy to understand manner.
All those words and not a direct or specific complaint, just generalities. What specifically did you have an issue with? Let's start there.
Second, I was all over Bob Stoops like stink on shit over the Mixon incident, DGB and going all the way back to Dusty D. That ol' dog ain't gonna hunt, son.
I'd tell you to stick to something, but this post doesn't give any indication of what you do well.
Coming at me isn't it, that's for sure.
Good grief, that's the richest thing anyone has said all day in this thread.
I mean.... lulz.
Sexual assaults impact all of us. Mothers, girl friends, wives, sisters, cousins, aunts.
You'll find I'm quite active in this front, not just this time.
I would argue we all need to take it very personally. This is about as f'd up as a college football scandal gets outside of child abuse and murder.
BOBA was not suspended because of his opinions on this subject. That's simply not what happened, no matter how many times you suppose that it is. I've been quite open about the whys of that situation.
It might be easier to buy into this wave of emotion were it not coming on a message board that often champions the sexual assault of young men by hot female teachers. Perhaps we should all take it very personally all of the time - regardless of who the victim and/or predator are.
I'm not saying you're wrong in that sexual assault is sexual assault, but you're comparing (in almost all cases) a statutory scheme of underage people being legally incapable of consenting to sex to a violent rape. They aren't close to the same--legally speaking or in a "shock the conscience" test.
Your point isn't invalid, but for someone that seems to care about taking it all seriously, you considerably damage your position when you seem to advocate that it's ok to ignore this instance if people have ignored things in the past.
SIAP - This is a really touchy issue. Baylor might come out smelling like a rose. It can be extremely difficult for her to participate in a trial. She's probably just trying to get past it because she'll never forget it. Depending on her financial need, and her mindset, she might decide to take the first offer. Regrettable but a real possibility IMO.
Very true. Assuming they're sued civilly by a respectable plaintiff's attorney/firm, in order to avoid allowing full-blown discovery to take place and their officials being deposed Baylor would likely be looking at a high 7-figure to low 8-figure payoff. This sad truth is why these cases are truly disgusting--a person who hadn't suffered such a traumatic, insane violation would almost surely go after the institution with a killer mentality (especially when it is such a dead-to-rights case like this one), but expecting the victim to put themselves through something like that for a few years after-the-fact is an understandably tall, tall order.
Being a Christian and trying very hard to be a good Christian, I think some of us expected more from a Baptist school. We realize it happens at public schools as well but it shouldn't happen anywhere. This board is a microcosm of society. People don't all agree, and that's fine. However, we should all recognize the right that others have to disagree. I've had some strong opinions but tried to keep it civil and avoided name calling. It's inflammatory and useless. The best way is to ignore those posters. They rarely have anything I really need to hear.
Your sentence, "I am very much a supporter of avid protection of all students from predators of any type." is on the money. The particular Baylor issue is about a terrible abuse of a lady, but disrespecting people in general is a major problem in the world. The treatment of Muslims in this country after 911 was deplorable. The vast majority of these people felt the pain for the actions of the few just like the non-Muslim people did.
I personally hate guns due to the loss of life both in my extended family and a second incident directly witnessed by my son. In spite of that, I respect the right of others to bear arms as long as their use does not infringe on the rights of others.
Everyone should ask, "What would Jesus do?" and then try to do the same.
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I just couldn't disagree more. I have seen this site meltdown over quite a few stupid things the past three years, but when the rape case broke last year over Saunders, no one thought he should be given another chance and all were happy when he was dismissed.
I would imagine that if the same thing happened here that happened in Waco, we would be calling for Charlie's head.
When we look up north and see what Briles did, and continues to do, I doubt very seriously many are thinking about football, other than the awareness being drawn to it because it happened in the football progam. It boils my blood to watch people, supposed Christians, defend that piece of shit.
I don't give a crap what your opinion of OB policy is. I don't give a crap if you don't want to hold the HC responsible for the people he brings into his program. But if you don't want to fix the systematic problems at Baylor, the only conclusion I can come to is that you don't care about the victim. I'm not mad at you knucklehead, it's not personal.
